Oddbean new post about login | logout Why Nostr is struggling… There is too much of an overlap with X, not only in the feature sets among the primary applications, but more importantly, in the kind of audience that Nostr is catering to. Sure..censorship resistance at the protocol level is a differentiator, but the to the average person, you may as well be talking gibberish. They don’t know wtf a protocol is in the first place - let alone why it matters for censorship resistance to happen at that level, or more importantly, WHY they should trust Nostr to deliver on that promise. “Bcoz @jack said so” is not an argument. ———— Bluesky is a case in point here. It’s got a VERY similar feature set to X, claims to be open source / censorship resistant (similar narrative to Nostr), and is growing MUCH faster than Nostr, bc it has captured a key audience, ie; people with TDS and EDS (Elon Derangement Syndrome). https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bluesky-signups-surge-uk-amid-musks-row-with-government-over-riots-2024-08-13/? I’ve been on there a few times, and the content quality is enough to make you want to throw up….but at the very least, it’s working for that kind of content, and for the people who want it. I don’t have a direct answer here..but I think it’s something to do with the over-emphasis on technicals. @NVK mentioned increasing the emphasis on design the other day. I agree this is a move in the right direction. We’re taking a very design-focused approach with @Satlantis (we’ll have ALOT more to show in the next 6wks). That being said, it’s not enough. IMO, Nostr is technically mature enough for us to go out there and talk about it to more people, and build a narrative BEYOND the 500 of us that are talking to each other on here. People like @PABLOF7z or @Gigi can correct me if I am wrong here. Maybe there’s alot more to do technically. But if I am right, I’d like to see more initiatives that are marketing oriented being supported by @HRF and @OpenSats and other coalitions. Maybe we even need a council of Nostr businesses, who together pool some funds to help drive some marketing initiatives? Whatever the case, we need to expand upon the Nostr narrative, make it more compelling and speak to more people about it. At the very least, we have to conquer then Bitcoiners. If we can’t get the segment who are into freedom money onto the freedom of speech network, we’re DOA. That’s a first step. I know @Tanja is working on a very cool initiative in relation to this. The Nostr Booth is IMO a great way to make Nostr more “real” for bitcoiners by having a physical presence at all the conferences. I know @utxo the webmaster 🧑💻 + @fiatjaf are doing some Podcast outreach. That’s super important too. @mcshane and crew are putting on Nostriga. Amazing. @miljan / @primal are doing great things with @paulinthejungle, etc on the content side. I’ve got some things up my sleeve personally which I will begin to do once @Satlantis is in a position to represent a NEW kind of Nostr-product.. But we need MOAR.. And…we also need to find another angle that is NOT about censorship resistance. That’s clearly not working against X. I don’t know the EXACT narrative or spin, but it has to be more “running towards” than “running from”. More white pill, less black pill. Anyway. I will probably turn this into an article. I’ve been thinking more and more about “writing in public” as we build Satlantis, and sharing more about how we’re thinking about growing a “network product” on top of a “network protocol”. If you think this was valuable, please repoast so more people can see and get involved in the discussion.
Nostr is doing just fine thanks
lol. The point of this post is not to just plop your head in the sand like an ostrich. Nostr might be fine technically, but things like BlueSky are growing at 30x the pace - and they are technically inferior. Network effects matter. Without them, networks are dead. Nostr is far from meaningful critical mass
Growth takes time but 🫢👇 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/twitters-revenue-collapses-84-tesla-171535190.html
Nostr is not struggling, it's doing quite well for a 2.5yo protocol 🫡
It’s 1982. SMTP is dead.
Continues to get better. Zaps are awesome.
2.5yo? No, it's older than that.
Wat?
I love it here!
As long as the bridges are working fine, it shouldn't matter that much which protocol people use since we all end up in one big open network. I'm fine with following and interacting with bluesky and mastodon users over bridges. If they ever want to come here natively great, but I can live without it.
Love the energy!
I don’t agree with some points of this take. Censorship resistance is a strong property of Nostr but it’s not the main point for majority of folks. It’s your portable identity, portable data, and free network effects, combined with use cases beyond just social media — which seems like a core focus of your note. There’s nothing wrong with having overlap with X — the point is Nostr is already almost a superset of what X provides but with even more. I got into Nostr before I got into Bitcoin. Just because there’s a concentration of a certain demographic, doesn’t mean the protocol is necessarily catering to only that demographic. Where I do agree with you is that Nostr needs the other stuff with thoughtfully designed experiences to succeed to have folks want to use it. @Comingle intends to be one, and sounds like Satlantis is, too.
I think what you’re doing at comingle is an excellent example. Love the concept and the approach you’re taking. The portable identity is IMO one of the killer features for sure. In fact, it’s what I most pitch when talking about Nostr to people (I never really discuss censorship resistance). But (a) I don’t think the narrative around that is being well enough articulated by us, and (b) it seems to be that people grasp that point intellectually, but then don’t have alot of real, functional Nostr products to use beyond X clones right now. That being said, I know these things take time. So I’m not suggesting “oh we need to have more apps now or we’re dead”. What I am suggesting though, is a move away from CR as a main selling point, bc I don’t think it’s that important, and doesn’t differentiate nostr enough from X. The blue sky example and traction helps validate this claim. Anyway. Appreciate your response and the work you’re doing at Comingle
Wrt functional Nostr products beyond x clones, have you checked out nostrapps.com lately? I think the issue is more about marketing (as you alluded to) and letting people know these clients exist. Many still need work but they are there, across multiple categories beyond x clones
Same wise
I think having some nostr marketing budget in OpenSats makes a lot of sense. Just as an eg I suggested reaching out to someone like Jay Dyer who seems open to sponsorship, is already a bitcoiner - accepting on-chain BTC donations on his show. Importantly he is not enclosed in the bitcointwitter bubble and reach. Just as an example. Unfortunately nostr has sort of got the reputation (perhaps not all the unfairly) of being a bitcointelegram group. Which is obviously slightly unfair seeing as nostr is more than the microblogging platform, but that is how people encounter it. I think your right tho. Bluesky soaks up the people who want to boycott Elon and those who want the retro leap vibes of reliving Left Twitter 2010s. You know the kind of thing... Back in the day when posting 'be gay, do crime' was considered edgy or something (now your HR manager has a poster of it in their office). I would also say substack plays quite a significant role in the 'good enough' lack of censorship, similarly to twitter. (But also have you seen the comments section of Instagram lately, they seem to be hands off to drive up rage engagement..?). Realistically nostr will struggle to get numbers here with it being culturally predominantly a bitcointwitter offshoot. Unsurprisingly, not many people outside of the BT expat bubble won't stay for too long with the mostly monotopic environment. Which is kind of why I think small step of appealing to the likes of Jay Dyer and his audience, the periphery of BT - the bitcoin-sympathetic is probably a good bet. Especially if you want more than people who turn up for a day or two. (I won't bother listing the waves of users nostrbhas had and lost).
Asking for a marketing company to receive a grant to promote a protocol sounds ridiculous. There will be profitable companies that use nostr in a big way and those companies will have marketing budgets. Maybe save the funding for those companies
I see your point, and agree it is slightly ridiculous lol. You might be more hopeful than me and that might be the difference. I think you probably may need slightly ridiculous solutions to a slightly ridiculous dilemma of umm network effect / cultural echo chamber stagnation. There's no reason why it couldn't be an grant allocated with a stipulation it must be spent on marketing? (I realise this also sounds ridiculous what with nostr devs needing the money for more short term pressing matters). I don't know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That’s why I’m doing the swag report, the fashion report, the show report etc. need some levity and fun
Comparing to Bluesky is meh… bluesky is the biggest hate filled shit show of extreme leftist I have ever visited. They would never come to Nostr anyway, it doesn’t fit them. And they are not decentralized, they function pretty much like mastodon, and even then, almost every user is on one server. If they came here in force it would most likely drive many of the users that are here away. —- As far as growth, it’s an open source project… it will take time, a lot of time to go big or mainstream, unless you get Rogan on it singing its praises..lol
Did u read what I wrote? I didn’t compare it to blue sky. That place is a shitshow. I used it to contrast where bluesky lives in people’s minds and where nostr does, for people NOT on nostr. Kapiche ?
Kapiche, … talk of Bluesky gets me all twisted and makes my agent orange act up.. ✌️
In Silence there is eloquence. Stop weaving, and see how the pattern improves. Rumi
You need Nostr. Nostr doesn't need you.
Hell 99.9 percent of normies have no idea what Bitcoin is let alone nostr. Unfortunately we have a very long way to go to get nostr mainstream. First and foremost the big names in the space need to go nostr only and stop using big tech. This would encourage the average Bitcoiner to migrate to nostr to see content they want to see. If you can find your favorite content creator on X or Facebook etc what motivation do you have to leave these platforms? If we can get a maximum amount of Bitcoiners on here that’s a start. This strategy can also be applied to businesses as well. Offer discounts, send some zaps to anyone that follows you on nostr. We have to make nostr the place TO BE and connect with other likeminded individuals. #Nostr has a ton of potential we just have to channel it in the right direction.
I’m going to write more about establish micro and atomic networks. The way you build larger networks is by stringing together many small networks. It requires quite a bit of coordination, which is harder with a decentralised protocol. @OpenSats is a great imitative trying to direct some resources in a more deliberate way. That’s why I think they should be thinking about marketing grants next
Embrace the friction, we need the struggles! Without these this Nostr movement wouldn't exist. It's what the other protocols are seeming to miss. So just foster the friction as long as possible 🤓
Just don’t use the big words to explain / market it. Instead of censorship resistant or decentralised, say: “You can post whatever you want, no matter where you are and no one can take what you post down”. Most people are dumb, so why limit your audience by talking smart.
It’s just another echo chamber. I appreciate the effort it took to build this place but I’m fast losing interest to continue.
Yes, that is probably one of the reasons for the slow growth. This will vanish over time though.
I think maybe just focus on attracting the folks who need the tech the most... the people who are censored or likely to be censored.
I don’t think that’s a viable strategy.
Well, that might now include the 5th most populist country...so maybe?
basically, you need to make all the noise possible. I was doubting whether joining #nostr or not, but the final push to jump here was the workspace from @La Crypta. Those guys joined Freesatoshis community and started making so much buzz around the protocol that I had no other choice than joining. 😅 I agree with all you said, Imo there's still time to set things well before we get tons of users joining. Maybe improving data transmission and a smoother UX can be something that welcome new users the right way.
For sure. And +1 with the La crypta guys. Had the pleasure of meeting them for the first time this week. They doing great work down in BA. And yes - you’re right in the sense that this lull period gives us a little more time to smooth out the edges.
The key differentiator between nostr and other platforms is that you can take your identity (a public key) and following to different applications. So we need a completely different application- something completely unlike twitter- to demonstrate that difference. And then another application. All of which you’re using the same public key as your identity, so your followers carry over. Also, we need better key management. Like a tapsigner for nostr. Keep your private key fully offline, and sign messages with the tap of a signing device.
More applications yes. This is critical. But applications don’t just magically get users. You can build a beautiful boat, but you need to get it on the water and sail it somewhere. See my reply to @LynAlden just a few minutes ago, and the steps I listed out
Svetski, if any lunatic starts that censorship regulation council crap here; I will spend my Bitcoin elsewhere and as many follow, your⚡️Zaps will become scarce and scarce, there are hundreds of apps on LN Network where I could be earning or spending Bitcoin. Be grateful that we are spending our #Bitcoin on #nostr. I know nostr:nprofile1qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgspzamhxue69uhhyetvv9uhxtnyd9nkwmm09e3k7mgprpmhxue69uhkvet9v3ehgu3wdehhxarjxyhxxmmdqywhwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytndd9jxgmrfdenjumtev3h8xtn2wqergaw8 is grateful. #puravida P.S. Nostr is not struggling, you just say that because you like Bluesky, there's a problem with Bluesky, if you give their users #Bitcoin they will commit suicide online, FOR PROFIT.
??? What kind of a retarded comment is this?? 😂😂😂 Learn to read dumb dumb, then come back and comment something meaningful
I followed you for 8 months and everytime someone opposes your views or opinions you call them dumb dumb or retarded. This is very common with some veteran #nostr developers but @Jack has NEVER done this to anyone, he's not a troll or a bully. He understands that every user represents value on this network and every interaction is an opportunity to earn/award. Check your constant offensive notes and replies against "dumb dumbs" and "retards", Svetski and then you will understand the difference between Nostr and X or Bluesky material.
Nostr is struggling because they chose social to test the protocol .. everyone hates social or not ! .... but no one wants more of it ! Besides the network effects are impossible to break .. That said , if it survived social experiment, then sky is the limit .. both technically as well as to market standpoints ..
I think Nostr has a brilliant take on how to do social media right. The lack of manipulating algorithms alone frees us all from the mental angst that one will experience on mainstream social media platforms. Having praised it to the rafters, I also think that persisting with the almost exclusive focus on pitching Nostr as a twitter killer is misguided. For one, it hasn't killed Twitter, not even a dent. Elon is more of a threat to twitter than any upstart. When looking at the way the online world "over there" is going, it is a bit naive telling a normie that Nostr is a superior form of social media. That is like saying you are a nicer version of Hannibal Lector. Think about it. In the minds of the masses, Twitter and FaceBook, Insta, Tik Tok are social media. The way they do social media is toxic, and whether their gazillion-strong userbase admit it or not, there is a growing societal sense that “social media is not healthy”. Hence my puzzlement at insisting on pitching Nostr as a better social media, especially when it is so much more. Nostr is a new internet where you take your ID from app to app signing in with something akin to an automatic smart key. You aren't tracked or asked for personal details or served ads. There is no controlling central forces, no equivalent of mega sites trying to silo the internet, forcing users to comply with ever more stringent privacy invading requiremens. The users have the controlling hand on the Nostr internet. Of course social media apps are probably the most polished on Nostr, but the array of working apps that the average person could use regularly are there already. Venture capitalists need to throw their money at mostly non social media apps. Pitch Nostr as a suite of apps. Pitch the dumbed down version of the Nostr philosophy. People will come. And who pitches the Nostr apps? Those blue check X users on Nostr. They need to step up. Jaron Lanier had it right 6 years ago. For their own sake, they need to get off Twitter. Seriously, there is a every chance they are mentally ill to some degree. They can literally detox on Nostr which doesn't have the manipulation model at its core. And secondly they need to get off Twitter for the sake of society, especially the Nostr society. Only by preaching to Twitter users from the outside, with an outsider perspective, can they expect to be taken seriously with their Why Nostr? pitches. They should pummel Medium and long form platforms with Why Nostr? And push the apps not the social media. Their posts will surely get tweeted. Twitterati will get to read the perspective of outsiders, recovering Twitter addicts who have found a new internet as envisioned by Tim Bernard Lee that already works well, and already has a bunch of productive apps. The Twitter killers can continue to be the best iteration ever of social media, but for marketing purposes, they are a part of the rich Nostr sphere, not the overarching big daddy. Something like that!
I agree with the white pill over black pill aspect. When I write about Nostr I try to do like 80% white pill and 20% black pill, and even the black pill stuff is phrased like, "you can own your identity". From what I've seen, the Nostr ecosystem goes through some stepwise improvements. Damus was a gamechanger. Primal was a gamechanger. I think the long-form stuff has a lot of legs to it, and anything related to reviews. From the knowledge I have of certain companies' pipelines, including ones that you've mentioned, I'm optimistic that we'll have some more stepwise upgrades in the future that can start really tying things together.
I’ve noticed as much in your writing. Which is a big part of why it appeals to more than just Bitcoiners. And yep - I’m also optimistic wrt roadmaps. Step 2 is we all have to execute on the roadmaps. But step 3 still remains: viable go to market approaches that are more & more compelling. Of all the pillars of network growth, I think comms is still the weakest. 1. Tech is great. 2. Design, and there “Product” is catching up. The areas of weakness: 3. Comms / Go to market. 4. operational excellence. We’re going in the right direction for sure, and the correct order of operations. At the end of the day, I’m just pointing out that the next peak is going to require a new / different focus.
I don't disagree, but for context there is very little capital in Nostr. That came up in a public interview this week. Paul Barron asked me about Nostr on his 450k subscriber altcoin channel, pointed out Nostr's sideways user statistics, and then pointed to Farcaster's greater growth. I pushed back by highlighting that Farcaster raised an order of magnitude more capital ($150 million), and that Nostr is mostly funded from donations and has hardly any VC-funded companies, and even those few only to a limited extent. We've seen this in the crypto space before where they outraise bitcoin-only companies by one or two orders of magnitude but then eventually run out of steam because there's a weaker foundation there. So, virtually all of the Nostr comms are organic, rather than funded by a marketing budget. It's because individuals are excited about it. Larger-scale comms, GTM, and operational excellence require capital. The bootstrapping phase has been super strong and organic from developers' own hardcore time capital, and we have the initial seeds of monetary capital in the space, largely thanks to Jack and then also the HRF and some from bitcoin-focused VCs. So I expect that we'll see some of those pivots once this current bootstrapping phase bears more fruit in the coming months with the development stuff they've built, with more opportunities to raise capital and have Nostr-focused companies with like, an actual marketing budget. I don't think we should be complacent, but rather I think we're progressing to the next step in a good position, from which we must then build upon.
IMHO Intentional communities powered by crypto is the way forward. Crypto people tend to spend their time tapping away at screens developing all these fancy software governance protocols but 99% of such protocols don't govern anything worth governing. Humans are physical creatures that need food and shelter. I think step 1 of cryptocurrency protocols should be governing the production of, and access to food, and shelter. In this respect, I like the closer.earth platform, they try to apply cryptocurrency to managing real world resources: https://closer.earth/ It's hard to determine the direction of future software development, if you're not using the software to coordinate the production of goods that people value - which is why I'm a massive advocate for applying cryptocurrency/decentralised protocols to intentional communities.
Buy sell trade “market place” but it actually included firearms. Because fb and Twitter won’t do it.
THIS is what I’m talking about
Till a Silk Road is build on Nostr we won't know if it's uncensorable. My bet is that Mostr will be the a stepping stone for it.
🤐🤷♂️ https://shopstr.store
Maybe this one will be it in the future.
We're building it in that direction!
This is a great take! I agree that Nostr needs to find a way to connect with more people beyond just the tech-savvy crowd. Focusing more on design and making the benefits of the platform clear and relatable to everyday users is a smart move. The idea of a marketing push, especially targeting Bitcoiners, makes a lot of sense. If we can get that crowd on board, it could really help Nostr grow. Excited to see where this goes and what you have up your sleeve!
When there is enough variety in topics on Nostr, a varied audience can connect. Nostr has been over-branded and branding is a central planning mechanism. When I started with Reddit or Twitter, I never used their branding as some kind of flag or banner. I think a positive step forward is to reduce the bashing of other media channels. One of Nostr's problem is trying to be different from Twitter while not understanding what makes Twitter valuable to its users.
I’m a normie…I can’t get zapped on X, it’s why I’m here (to build and support new models of social media habits & appreciation). It’s why I believe Nostr is part of a more desirable future for all. Imho…They’re coming, y’all are just super early.
What do you mean with struggle? Is it just that its taking time for adoption? Or is it more the capitalization of devs? From a distance it looks quite fast if I see what’s developed and used. Could easily be wrong 😇
Development is great. See my comment 10min ago to Lyn. Clarifies further. And the biggest area of struggle IMO is where nostr lives in people’s minds (outside of the regular crowd on here). It’s struggling to find a place. BlueSky, as shit as it is, found a place, and it’s very clear: “The Anti-X”. And it’s growing 10-20x the rate that nostr is, as a result
The people that still pay attention to msm aren't the ones going to come to nostr. I really don't care if all the bluesky people want to wall themselves off there in their echo chamber because they are the type that aren't swayed by truth, facts and logic anyway. They are the emotional, theoretical types. The value of nostr is here, it's real and that's all it needs to be. Like bitcoin up until about this year. Those who can see actual value will arrive. Those who can't are better left behind.
Sir, excuse me. Didn’t see the show more, almost wrote a better reply and got distracted. Thanks for replying. Being anti is definitely not going to get us what we want. As a nostr-newb, non dev, though ‘bitcoiner’ I can share the first needs and thought I had. Port the X posts/acc’s of the people I want to see the posts of. We could do this somewhat ‘en masse’. Strategically choose the accs you want to do first, automate porting over every post from them. After seeing your post I think we relieve much friction of just deleting X. And we make the beds for the owners of those accounts. Send them a message with “in case you get banned and lose all your content (and followers) we made you a backup”. Hopefully those people convert to actually using it when they see what’s possible. Still competing with X there but in a better way. Plenty of questions I have on feasibility but this is a need I had as an early user.
Threading some responses here for people to easily find. First one to @LynAlden https://primal.net/e/note1cmfje5rxwpzada8lf6n88h73vsrrw0zzn0z4jgp905s8w3wrxx7qd3l4e4
And another useful one: https://primal.net/e/note15cjdcshy3kxc22alhmkugpu830edlwazmg8jud6hyej7tup9stcs3y57nh
I like the optimism here, and my advice is to drop references to pill, pilling etc. It's a bizarre insider reference imo and one whose roots are a bit condescending to the people we aim to win over. Just my two ⚡️⚡️ 🤩 the Network Product angle is interesting. How do we find things here? For me, the discoverability layer is a key part of Nostr to build. Happy to consult on this (I'm an information architect)
When it comes to the technical side, private DMs and private groups are something we really should get in place. I am excited to see what @JeffG is working on in that regard. Key management for organizations and businesses is another piece I would like to see solutions for. NsecBunker is getting there, but is not a default option in any client I am aware of. Nostr has struggled with discoverability issues as well. Back in late 2022 and early '23, I would just hop into Global and find interesting people to follow there. Not the case anymore on the vast majority of clients. The exception to this is #Coracle, since @hodlbod's implementation of web-of-trust has allowed the vast majority of spam and unsavory content to be filtered out. For something to promote about Nostr that can make it something people are running to rather than running from, I think we need more buy-in from developers of apps that are NOT twitter clones, but can include a social aspect to them, and thus can benefit from the built-in network effect of integrating Nostr. In this regard, I am thrilled with what @fountain_app is doing to integrate Nostr, and especially the filtered feed that displays only notes with audio content, and it doesn't matter if this content is native to Fountain, or is on Spotify, or any other podcasting protocol, or on @wavlake. You can just interact with it as you would expect from any podcast app. I would love to see something similar, but for video content. An app with a feed that only shows you notes that your follows have shared with videos in them, regardless of where those videos are hosted, and you can play them within that app, rather than having to go to YouTube or Rumble, or wherever else they are hosted. This may be a tougher ask, and I think flare.pub was headed in this direction, but I haven't seen much movement there. We have also seen similar Nostr integration in wallet apps, such as @OpenSecret, @Minibits, and @eNuts ⚡️🌰. It makes their apps instantly more useful than a standard lightning or eCash wallet that you have to add all your contacts manually, if there's any option to add contacts at all. In short, I don't think the answer is so much about leaning hard into a niche community, the way BlueSky did, as it is about getting a few of the technical things in place that are still missing, and then adding Nostr to ALL THE THINGS. Nostr is a protocol that can underpin an entire ecosystem of other stuff, and that is what has me most bullish on Nostr.
Currently, NOSTR is a place where bitcoiners can be bitcoiners without being harassed by those that are not onboard with the paradigm shift, yet.
not being able to delete content is a massive barrier to meaningful adoption
I dont know why people say this. I edit and/or delete posts all the time
with a client feature or something else?
Both amethyst and Nos allow note deletion and most popular relays honor it.
Also got this web app that is just for note delete requests https://nostr-delete.vercel.app
Hey let’s talk about it on 7-9 November. https://surinamedecentralized.com/ @SurinameDecentralized https://m.primal.net/KBvx.jpg
Where is the Sybil resistance?
Discovery is probably what needs to be improved on. I find the best content in unlikely conversation.
Maybe we shouldn't use terms like "censorship resistant" and instead say "you can post whatever you want and no one can stop you." Because that's the reality of it, yes? This might be a little misleading but maybe we could also say that you can "make money" off of nostr since a lot of clients have lightning built in. You could also say "hey you can make an infinite amount of accounts on nostr with no workarounds needed." That would also spark people's interest but also turn some away. As far as I know, couldn't we also say that you can post a note that contains volumes of text? I've also seen some nostr streams on noStrudel. I feel like I'm being a little too obvious and shallow here; I haven't really deeply thought about this and this is just my first reaction thoughts.
From marketing point of view, which brand sounds better : "nostr" or "bluesky"?
Bluesky sounds like its selling dodgy custodial investments. Just my first reaction to the name!
"Sure..censorship resistance at the protocol level is a differentiator, but the to the average person, you may as well be talking gibberish" That sounds familiar to me as a Bitcoiner
#Nostr will find its way into people's mind, we are still just at the beginning. I'm currently cross posting, but the plan is to ditch X entirely once the Premium expires.
Thanks for the shout! this is the thread nostr needed. been enjoying reading the comments here as this is what I think about basically 24-7. Get bitcoiners here. as Bitcoin rises, so will nostr. We gotta post about more than just Bitcoin eventually of course 😂 MOAR is the only way. Friends tell friends. apps get better. nostr becomes more obvious.
"and build a narrative BEYOND the 500 of us that are talking to each other on here." Nothing else tell me what a failure I am than being a ecosystem of 500 people, but only having 11 followers.😂
It's not struggling. It's a time preference thing. The same argument has been talked about Bitcoin. "It's old tech" "It's too slow" "There's faster versions that do better things" For me Nostr is doing a job and doing it well. This is the problem with transitioning from a consumerist economy to a sound money economy. The mindset is "now, now, now" and that doesn't build quality - it builds quantity. Which will eventually offer nothing productive, and break society.
Typically my train of thought would be the same as Svetki’s but he is wrong here, agree. It’s a slow burn.
First of thanks @Svetski for his honesty and valid points. I’m a regular user, no dev. From my point of view #nostr has improved much. More stable, nice apps like @primal but: A) as stated on stage in @BTCPrague I despise the black and white stance on X ( or any other social network). Svetski is on point that freedom and censorship resistance isn’t enough for the vast majority out there. Freedom of choice is paramount. Promoting #nostr as the only legit social network because xyz is turning off many people AND WE DESPERATELY NEED THEM ➡️ B) B) as a content creator about #travel #travelstr or #photography there are very view like minded individuals here. The network needs a broader audience and you don’t achieve it by talking “security” out your ass. No doubt it’s important but the most common password is 12345 and the average Joe doesn’t give a damn. It is frustrating to see the same 6 accounts posting about my topics. There is not much inspiration or surprises. C) IMHO the killer app is being paid by your audience w/o fees or intermediaries. Of course one will cater to the will of one’s audience to harvest sats ( no change here to Youtube or IG) but at least you are more free to choose your topics. But B) is crucial. UI/Ux must improve, nsec handling also needs to cater Uncle Tommy and #nostr needs some influencers who move here and post exclusive content apart from Bitcoin, IT Security and Freedom.
No. You just didn’t read what I said. The point of my post is that outside of the tiny bubble on here, nobody knows where to place nostr in their minds. That is a communication problem, NOT a tech problem. And blue sky, with inferior tech, is doing a 10x better job with comms, by catering to the weirdo’s (that shitshow is growing at 20x the pace) Furthermore, you clearly don’t understand network effects. Unlike bitcoin, Nostr doesn’t have direct economic incentives built in, so I the network is more fragile and susceptible to becoming a tiny echo chamber. Nothing in my post suggested “we need it all now” - but that there needs to be more thinking done on comms. Right now 90% or more of the focus is on tech - and IMO, we’ve got good enough tech to begin putting resources and effort toward comms & marketing. Does that help clarify?
Here's how a post usually goes on social media with a centralised algorithm. - Have great 'hook', something controversial like 'why something doesn't work'. - offer a better alternative, normally something the person posting has invested interest in for their own gain or to position themselves as an expert to build trust to leverage later on. - Tag all the other people on that platform who have built up trust already and are actual experts - to reaffirm the posters 'expertise', leveraging their trust. - At the end of the post ask everybody to 'like,share, and comment' to manipulate the algorithm 👀 for their own gain. -When confronted by the idea they've posted about... become ultra defensive and use words like 'No, you're wrong' without considering the pros and cons of the response.
Nostr is “struggling” because it doesn’t have a CEO basically, and it’s kind of directionless. Catering to an audience is the “right” step in marketing but not for a global audience. We should competently solve some problem first. IMO, Nostr solves the creators problem first: own your audience, monetise, and a second order effect is better content. But like they say here, opinions are like assholes everyone has one.
Own your audience is one of the best angles. And yes - perhaps these narratives need to be driven by products and businesses built on Nostr? I’d hope at the very least though, that orgs like OpenSats, who have some sort of coordination power, can assist. That’s somewhat of an edge against the centralised competition if used right. But comms is a very important next step. I think the tech is mature enough to move onto that as a focus now.
I actually disagree on this. Zapping UX is *worse* since it first got implemented, I need to use different clients to see all reactions, zaps or replies, I can never easily login on primal in a new browser, I once seemed to lose all follows for days, no idea why, I doubt that if wiki leaks happened on Nostr it couldn’t be censored. All of this is anecdotal of course. But there is a lot of promise and cool fast pace improvement even if scattered. Rn Nostr is still for the tinkerers, and that’s ok for now, I guess. But it can’t be a shitcoin, it needs to excel at *something* to succeed first. The tech is still not there yet, but looks like it’s spastically moving in the right direction.
Aleks, thanks for your post! That’s exactly what we need. The goal isn’t just to raise awareness but to actually onboard people to Nostr. Helping them set up, answering their questions, and engaging in deeper discussions. That’s why we need a space where people can physically connect.
From a European point of view (not only the European Union), talking about censorship resistance can be problematic. I talked to some fediverse european users who requires to have filters so that not everything can be said, but also received. These are mostly people who have been at some point bullied or cyberbulllied, and want to have a safe place. #Nostr should also address these kind of regulated areas. I agree, another angle should be used, because unique feature are note what the public is looking for, only very specific users. The public dislike changes, that's why #bluesky has more traction : it looks like something they already know, and can use right away. Mastodon was not so obvious to use for beginners, because of the decentraisation. This unique feature completely lose them. I'm not surprised .social server is the largest server. Maybe in the near future the decentralised identity project will help. So why one should use bluesky over nostr as a mivroblogging service? What are the day to day advantages from UI and UX perspective from one over the other. And as CARLOS mentionned, there is no one CEO or major personnality to push Nostr forward. (this is the same problem linux distros had until Redhat and Ubuntu came out with a company behind)
Dont think Nostr is struggling at all merely growing up.
Besides censorship resistance the clear davantage of nostr are #zaps, and they are underutilized. Some version of zaps are going to be the real global town square for the competition of ideas.
Nah. I think Zaps are largely useless. Nobody cares and they’re not very different to likes.
Yes, but what if zaps were provable deposits instead of payment records? 21M limited supply of btc deposits means they are a real and verifiable sign of value. You can use ecash to do this!
Svetski writes. We read. nostr:note1e8gzpmeum8tqzqg6sjkuxge7v764h9x49n7e000as0x40lpekazqfhwk8f
Great points. I always thought that the deplatforming of popular people was not only an idealogical selling point but also a giant arbitrage opportunity. The biggest component would then be having someone with the charisma and energy to onboard that popular content creator and their audience as quickly as possible while the iron is hot. Not sure who would be a good candidate. Could be a tall order but I think slick UX for normies + talent on the persuasion/onboarding side could go a long way when those opportunities present.
NOSTR isn't struggling, it's just a work in progress. IMHO most interesting and differentiation features are the same user key for all NOSTR application, uncensorability, self hosting of relay and/or client.
Interesting Conversations 🔥🔥🔥🚀🚀🚀 The future is looking bright for #Nostr nostr:note1e8gzpmeum8tqzqg6sjkuxge7v764h9x49n7e000as0x40lpekazqfhwk8f
You can never be shadow banned, censored or outright banned. If that is not enough, NOSTR is not for you.
nostr and bluesky are like bitcoin and xrp. you don't really need to worry if the fundamentals are on your side I do agree though that protocols that are actually revolutionary can make entrepreneurs very frustrated tons of bitcoin startups fill the graveyard, yet the networks keeps growing organically and around the real world value it provides
Nostr doesn't compete so much with Twitter, FB or other social networks, but more with single-sign-on providers such as Google or Microsoft. Using multiple apps with one verified signin. And have a good payment option at the same time. Only without KYC and annoying middlemen. That's the slogan. Twitter is also trying to go in the direction of an “everything app” because it can't grow with only posting notes; Nostr is competing with this. And it has the potential to replace all the big tech with it. The social media application stands out at the moment, of course, but it's not for everyone. The ecosystem and the other apps need to be pushed more. There are people who have nothing to do with social media but sell things on eBay all day long. Shopstr is a promising candidate. Or # asknostr for Quora-like platforms. And there are more use cases where identity and payment are central. You know, I got my first high with a Zap, but my second, no less, high with a small freelance gig via Shopstr. I've never done a job so stress-free, fast and straightforward. More of this please!
I get all that. But “competing against everyone” is a losing strategy. Who / what are we competing against first? And this needs to be a relatively precise target. And perhaps we need to change the paradigm a bit. Maybe it’s not Nostr that’s competing, but the businesses themselves? But if that’s the case, it maybe means we should be talking less about Nostr and more about the respective products? It’s not so clear cut. Hence why I said it’s “struggling” with comms. We don’t have a tech problem. We have a go to market problem.
"But “competing against everyone” is a losing strategy." Who says that? New times require new dimensions in competition. There are a lot of devs here, we're all here. It's just a matter of structuring and incentives. And I think we _have_ a tech problem. No product is fully developed and everyone knows things are buggy. Even with good marketing, we would have a lot of disappointments after onboarding. For example, how do you explain to the masses in a non-technical way that you can't change/delete things? The lack of such a basic function alone will cause a rethink in online behavior and will also cause some regrets.
Competing against everyone is the same as the million failed startups claiming “everyone is their user”. Peak midwit approach
I wasn't talking on a startup/company level here. But thanks for the quick judgment.
i’d flip the question—it’s not about who we compete with, but who we’re delivering value to. once that’s clear, knowing the competition becomes relevant. there’s a simple 4P framework for early startups struggling to find product-market fit: persona, problem, promise, product. the product must deliver the promise that solves the problem for your persona. if anyone wants to dive deeper into nostr marketing, i’m happy to help—got a good bit of marketing/startup/tech experience 🤙
Best response so far. I got sucked into the competition frame, but what you said is really the correct frame. That being said, same principle applies. Our market isn’t just “everyone”. That’s a retarded take, which too many nostr people have
I'd argue that it stems from the mind viruses we got from fiat thinking, that creates this expectation that something needs to be adopted by critical mass user base in a very short timeframe. nostr grows with builders, building their idea. we don't know which use case is going to turn everyone. it might be cat memes, it might be freedom money. time will tell
trial and error - sure, but to make it effective there must be some thesis we test
my point here is more that not everyone is going to be turned by the same use case at the same time. so, on top of what you said, we should adjust our expectations accordingly
i’ll start with my personal 4p that led me here: persona: i’m a startup founder (in the eu) with 10+ years in proptech. i had a bitcoin story years ago, similar to what @Derek Ross described once (“old discs turned into a multi-million dollar mirror”). i’ve always been into privacy and osint. problem: i never had instagram or facebook - it’s just not me. i like good conversations and interesting people. i tried twitter, but hated the ads (problem 1) and even more, (p2) the algorithms serving up the same quasi-influencer content (“ten ways to this…” and “what i’ve learned from…”). this led to a third problem - every social media platform today is a selling tool. if not through ads, then through influencing. ads are annoying, but influencing feels fake, and i don’t want that in front of my face. product: that’s how i ended up on nostr, probably through some article on @jack involvement. i read the paper, explored tons of websites (com, org, band, watch, you name it), and found @primal available on iOS. here i am. nostr promise: i see no ads and no influencers. value-for-value and full control are the promises that hooked me. if ads show up in my feed, i can switch clients. if i encounter annoying influencers, i can mute them. last but not least— i’m still short here, but i already like you guys. i enjoy reading your notes, discussions, memes. you’re a bunch of smart people, and that’s a promise hard to deliver on the web 💜 pv 🤙
Appreciate you laying it out. But I don’t think what you laid out is a viable pathway to something large or significant. If nostr is going to be some minor little network where a few people congregate to avoid ads and just chat to each other - sure. I see value in that. But that won’t change the web or make any meaningful impact in the world. The future is content creation, and that means more and more content creators and a larger and larger creator economy. (Yep…more influencers). Sure - 80% of them are cringe, but 20% are excellent educators and there is loads to learn. (Maybe it’s 90/10, or 99/1 ). The web is going to become the future of education. And that means content creators, selling stuff, and that also means ads. Will Nostr play that game ? Or will it remain small and fringe ?
thanks, i get what you mean about significance and changing the web. i’m in that too. not just here - my company is pushing to transform the commercial real estate industry towards full information transparency. it’s a hard task, but that’s the fun part in the end. ambitions should be high, but timing (is the market ready for my solution?) and strategy (start small, dominate, then expand) matter too. the result of these two factors is pragmatic tactics that let you keep moving forward, day by day, step by step. about ads: > selling stuff, and that also means ads if it comes to that, i’ll just start my own client 🙃 and that freedom is exactly what i love about nostr! but… i think we’re underestimating the potential impact of value-for-value. @jb55 created something incredible with zaps; you won’t find that anywhere else. still looking with a fresh outsider's eye, i think vfv is a big opportunity that could lay the foundation for a new, humble, and healthy creator’s economy. in my mind, it’s an ads-free model (of course!) where clients can earn fees (like patreon, substack) and, instead of disrupting MY feed with THEIR paid content, they invest in new mechanisms to discover worthy things. and as i see these ideas are already popping up in discussions.
Is your company going to integrate Nostr on the backend?
Get that real estate data decentralized and you'd get more independent data sources and could do better real-time analysis and AI embeddings.
the problem with commercial real estate data is that it's fragmented (many players, each aggregating the same/similar information for their own purposes). as a result, there's at least a double cost - one to collect the data, and one to verify it, multiplied by the number of players. this leads to many implications, including information gray areas and institutional players exploiting insider insights. today, our platform solves the problem of data collection (we act as an integrator), but the missing puzzle is verification. a few years ago, I was working on the idea of "property digital passports" - we built a theoretical model, the idea that each property could have its nft-like token with its history records chained in it (so there shouldn't be a need to double verify information that has been confirmed in the past). didn't develop it further because we needed to put more effort into the core business, but... when I came across nostr, I was very excited because the concept is very close to what we were looking for. to answer your question if we will use nostr, i still need to learn more and understand it better, but I'm very optimistic.
Pablo has a really good angle on this with how he intends to build @Highlighter I think that approach is infinitely more compelling than V4V. I personally don’t think V4V scales. That’s why busking is not really a viable commercial strategy for 99% of the market. Either way - this community needs more minds like yours around. PS: You should also connect with @Tanja and give her some feedback on her new initiative.
> I see no ads and no influencers Literally 80% of nostr users are Bitcoin influencers.
there’s a difference between influencing an idea and trying to sell some stuff. for me, value for value is the path to a new, humble creator’s economy.
Bluesky is not the slightest bit censorship resistant because other users can delete your posts simply by blocking you.
It's not decentralized or open either You can host your own data (PDS), but the central server decides how your posts are distributed
I am working on a simple book about #nostr and #v4v and my journey from Tokyo to Riga. A book I can give to for example family and friends so they get it. Because I get so manny times the question but how do you live?🤣 I Got tired of it so that is the mean reason to make this book and who know the Nostr community supports it ✍️ Hope to finish it and share it at Bitcoin Amsterdam 🤙 https://i.nostr.build/X5BIgl5oosgd4QN4.jpg
Bitcoin is friction, Bitcoin only is more friction. The beauty of nostr is that it isn't token dependent, yet so much seems to be Bitcoin only. As much as I love Bitcoin, I think to grow nostr needs to make Bitcoin an option rather than the only choice. This would show case nostr as the open protocol. At the moment it's understandable why people think it is just a web3 token dependent platform.
I think that would be taking a few steps back. Honestly, I think adoption is a very slow burn. People will use it but it'll have to spread by word of mouth. Perhaps a company down the line will use nostr and it'll be huge. That happened with Linux gaming, Valve, and the Steam Deck. So it's possible it happens again.
Yeah, but for people who don't get Bitcoin, there isn't really any way of paying for relays. Most people associate Bitcoin with scammers and are going to stop listening as soon as it is mentioned unfortunately. These people may be interested in freedom of speech or the ability to own your own identity and following, but dismiss nostr because using it required them to also be interested in Bitcoin. The same is true for people into crypto. Nostr is a killer for most niche shitcoins because it can do what most token projects try and achieve using Bitcoin, which has better stability and network effect. Bitcoin would naturally come to be used if we allowed a free market. But by insisting on Bitcoin only, we are doing the same thing that shitcoins do, but with Bitcoin. But making clients that can use multiple crypto currencies we would undermine them by exposing to Bitcoins network effect. The former group is more important but the second is a good thing to do on principle to demonstrate that nostr doesn't care what monetary unit it uses.
This is a very good point; albeit up until saying "making clients that can use multiple crypto currencies." I don't think we should be encouraging other crypto currencies. I think your line of thinking is right but the conclusion that we should encourage or support scams for adoption is wrong. Of course, nothing's stopping anyone from making a client that does support such crypto coins. Did we forget ordinals and Bitcoin magazine's scam shill articles? I understand mentioning this isn't exactly directly related to your point but I bring it up because I think I'm seeing a pattern here. I think it's a slippery slope that's down the same avenue of thinking that made those kinds of articles happen at Bitcoin magazine. Is nostr a Bitcoin thing? Honestly, yes. But could it exist without money being attached in any way? Absolutely. But I think that hardly matters given our reality. I think it's just the nature of the beast and the unfortunate reality that people will immediately turn away if bitcoin is mentioned. In time they will learn either the hard way or the easy way. That's okay and people will find utility in nostr as much as they will in Bitcoin. Patience, we don't need to play games to try and "get people on nostr." Though I think such a thing is fun to ruminate on and speculate.
Yeah, I see your point about not wanting to promote scams. At the end of the day the user has the responsibility to decide what they determine to be a scam. It's not the responsibility of the devs. Giving choice is not necessary promoting scams. I'm thinking of something like linking an open source wallet like Cake Wallet. I disagree that nostr is a Bitcoin thing. Bitcoiners built it, but it's bigger than Bitcoin. If it is limited to Bitcoin we limit its network effect and compromise it's ability to be adopted. It will become a niche network that withers as a similar, more open protocol gets adopted more widely
I really like this conversation. Somethings I would like to help make general onboarding easier. Focus on making account creation and security of keys easier and more convenient. I have some thoughts on this. As it is hard for me to onboard a person securely in short and consistent way. Also some tools for content modification would be useful. Such as image processing. Twitter has it built in. Free apps are full of crap. And then I think it can become easier to start promoting the eco system to a wider audience through different avenues. Such as a social app. A services app. A media app. Where your profile is yours and follows you. So in summary. Maybe the benefits need to be up sold more. Not the features. Benefit of your account and data being yours. And an ability to manage it better than a google account. Just thoughts. Thanks.
Have you spoken to 42pupusas?
I know the answer to on boarding 1/16th of the population onto btc,LNG,nostr and I'm working on it non stop, I'm struggling to pay my bills and work the 10+ hour shifts required to solo build the code but with in 3-6 months the MVP will be live.
I am doing my part and will keep on doing it but I also believe in patience and organic growth. Nostr will never give people who are addicted to stimulus that X or IG is giving them. They need likes, attention and all that. What is being created here might never be for the masses and I think there is a lot of truth to that. Different society/community is forming on Nostr..very close to Network State vibe. I like it this way. I come here for peace of mind and cool stuff. With enough time it will grow.
I'm all about helping grow Nostr! I don't understand a lot of the jargon that goes on here, but I love to learn and I also love the vibe here so much more than anywhere else. I'm spending less time on the shitcoin socials and more on Nostr because it's more authentic and uplifting here. nostr:note1e8gzpmeum8tqzqg6sjkuxge7v764h9x49n7e000as0x40lpekazqfhwk8f
My short experience with Nostr so far: The general vibe here is just so much better! If someone is killing my vibe I can mute them. No crap fiat ads that make me feel bad about myself or peak my anxiety. Also, quality content that is shared is rewarded in a natural and personal way with zaps and comments and reposts.
Nostr will remain fringe until it finds either 1) a killer app that caters to a mainstream niche or 2) a large swatch of a mainstream topic moves (not just crossposts) and drags their audience with them.
Gfy
Agree fully
The one response I am getting from people when I talk about Nostr is, “the app doesn’t work well.” Which can be true on any given day. Or it’s been months since they last used a nostr client, so they aren’t aware the experience has improved. We will have to keep reaching back out to people, reminding them it’s a work in progress but improving. More people are coming, more diverse content is popping up, and it’s growing. We are kind of in this “give it a second chance! Come back!” Phase right now…
gatekeeping with Bitcoin is not the solution
I find it also odd that everyone embraces a guy that had the most censored platform at times when it needed to be open and he collaborated with the govt on many levels and his excuses are dumb Nostr embraces him only for the money which is ironic
Humans make mistakes, realize them later, and often fall into deep guilt traps. They come up with new plans and try again. We should forgive and offer second, even third chances to everyone. Empathy
we need other stuff, just notes won't cut it
What’s Your Take? 🤔 Do you think we should create separate clients for different formats or keep everything in one place? 📖 If you want to read articles, visit Nosit. 🎥 If you want to enjoy videos, head over to Nostube. 📸 If you want to scroll through images, check out Nostagram. Or... should we mix all formats in a single platform for a more unified experience? 🌀
One platform.
separate clients for different stuff has been the way weve been progressing
I don't think there is a single way to do stuff right, so I don't believe there should be a single unified way I'm my mind, the expectation is that nostr provide a common way. that way we can have IGstr, Twistr, FBstr, but also UTubstr, Rumblstr, etc.. each one will.do things a different way. some will grow to do more than one thing and they will be good. but he expectation is that migrating between solutions should be painless for the user
I think with Elon's takeover of twitter and the continuing alienation of people, Nostr is at the right place at the right time but I agree that it would be great if it could capitalize on this opportunity more rapidly. The "gradually then suddenly" mantra is not wrong but maybe it is too idealistic. Apart from the no-brainer to capture as much of the bitcoin crowd as possible and - for lack of a better term - better marketing, two aspects could also be considered: a) similar to bitcoin's value proposition, not looking at it from a western perspective but thinking about the long term appeal of Nostr to people living under authoritarian regimes. It should be immediately obvious to anyone living under such a regime how Nostr differentiates from Twitter & co in many regards (e.g. doxxing risk from the central authority, shutting down their account because the government said so etc.). Make Nostr better known to those people and maybe we see a rapid rise in participation. I realize many good people like @gladstein are working that angle already but could we do more in that direction? b) that might be controversial but I strongly believe if one could convince a major celebrity to switch to Nostr exclusively from twitter, you will have a big portion of their following joining along. Imagine if Taylor Swift tomorrow declares that she quits twitter and will continue on Nostr! Nostr would immediately gain millions of users. Question is, if/how to convince a celebrity with a strong following to become exclusive? Apart from idealistic arguments, maybe purely financial motivation is needed? I realize this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way but what if instead of @jack supporting Nostr development work with the next round of money, Swift gets paid $5M to become Nostr exclusive for 3 months? This might have a bigger impact on Nostr' popularity and uptake than anything else. Not the morally best way to do it and the numbers might be off but I'm more playing devils advocate a bit here for brainstorming reasons.
We need strategic campaigns designed for different creators to convince them: - Those who care about fame should be promised exposure and recognition. ex: Tiktokers - Those who care about money should be offered promotion deals. ex: Influencers - Those who care about legacy should be given the promise of a censorship-free platform. ex: Authors and Writers
As Lynn pointed out, 10x the marketing budget nabs 10x the users. Why doesn't Nostr have that kind of marketing budget? Why don't VC's want to back it? Because they have no control here, and that is a feature.
Great thread nostr:nprofile1qqsx45yrjtgm4glklaafgz0z4309gs6cwfja3d99s8rqvlvgagcptpqpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp07002qa. Some very valid points here. At the end of the day the Nostriches are Unimportant! We mean nothing to the world. We are only a small group that understand what nostr:nprofile1qqsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8g2lcy6q and the other great minds of this protocol will mean to the future of humanity. And why. Incentive is the key. What is it that drives people to use something? Two of the main forms of "payment" is monetary and recognistion = ego. People like to be heard and recognised. X, Facebook Instagram etc they are all about recognition and some do make some money from it. The social media aspect of #nostr has the oppertunity two democratise this far further than the big existing platforms where one needs to be verified blah blah etc. Anyone can send sats to anyone for what they write. Very much a differenciator. Also #nostr socials are #bitcoin money driven. We should have some interesting times ahead. Let's use this as an opportunity to get people interested in #bitcoin. "Hey you know at #bitcoin thing that is going up. There is a social media platform called #nostr @primal where you can potentially get some #bitcoin really easy". And then of course last but not least they cannot turn it off or hide information from us like youtube. Facebook etc has been doing and stealing our information. At the same time. All this said. I think we need realise that the social media part of #nostr is just scratching the surface of what change it can and will bring to society. We believe at nostr:nprofile1qqsxae3qmkt8jlwmuquu8yualhnn8rcy9vf2kwr22d6rwls93pz4lrspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgjwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcpfs4xy that we are at the forefront of an internet revolution. The adoption of #nostr based real world adoption is about showing the benefits to society by using the protocol. Simple to implement. Cheap to implement. Data accuracy is 100% and verified. This in turn will give the user more confidance in using it. Also the idea that user is being given control over their own identy and data can be sold as a sence of empowerment. I would say that the world is now very open to that sense of empowerment. Just like bitcoin was launched after the global financial crisis. All the medical and manipulation has readied humanity to be open to these type of ideas of self control and something society would love to embrace. Not everyone straight away but slowly. Look what has been achieved in 15 year with @bitcoin. Our own approach to rolling out the #nostr based #saludprotocol with a real world implementation in partnership with a real world institution. We believe this is key towards proper adoption and simple on-boarding. Understanding the market segment we are working with. As the users are using this technology over time people can learn what they have. How they now are in control and have control over #freewill like nostr:nprofile1qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgjwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxqgkwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejqfny6r0 talkes about. The big message at the end of the day comes down to the fact that we need to focus on what drives humans to do things. Not on what drives just a small group humanity. Again we #Nostriches are non Important. Let's build 🌐#nostr
What is #Bitcoin? Be your own bank— own, control, and transfer money without needing anyone's permission. What is #Nostr? Be your own social media— own your content and audience, connect without algorithm limits, and earn without third-party permission.
Getting paid p2p via zaps IS the killer app idea here surely?! We need more real honest journalism on here…actual news, I would pay subscriptions for good journalism. And more doers, I want to read more about what people are doing to make their lives better…inspiration and education and again I would happily pay someone a monthly fee for content like that. So ideally it would be able to handle the content being uploaded; multiple pictures and videos. Is that even possible without subscriptions/advertising revenue? The censorship thing is not what most people care about (that could change of course) but I feel like getting paid p2p via zaps is the killer app idea here?! Anything else is starting from scratch. We know that earning in Bitcoin is not like earning in Fiat. If just 5-10% of your income is earned via Nostr/Zaps in Bitcoin and you can save that for at least 5 - 10 years those sats will be worth considerably more. Main issue is we live in a debt based society, we’ve been brainwashed to think only about today, people only value the money that can be earned and spent today, it’s hard to change that mentality overnight!
Zaps are definitely not the killer app. In fact, I think the focus on zaps does way more damage to nostr than good.
Eek really? Why do you think that? I feel like that’s the draw and anything else is starting from scratch. I get that the decentralised stuff is the underlying reason this exists but like Bitcoin you need the NGU draw the people, to then purple pill the orange pilled surely? Do people not pay with their attention first and then their money on social? The masses are hypnotised by money, they’re unable to see anything else unless you can trick or teach them?
The reason I came to Nostr is because I followed the people I love to follow. Some of them exclusively post here. I’m not a producer here, I’m a consumer. I assume you are both? I come here for content, the zaps make me want to produce content but also support more of the people I love to follow. We all look at the protocol from different perspectives I guess. What unites our want/need to be here?
Zaps are like pennies and coins we exchange for value, and in the coming years, 95% of the audience won't care about Zaps or lightning payments. Right now, we care because it's new and necessary from a business perspective for fast and secure payments. ( for businesses and Creators ) only 5% The majority (95% ) only care about value— news, fun, lessons, entertainment, connecting, and solutions to problems. Five things that will excite the majority of the audience: 1. Simple and interesting UI/UX 2. Easy connection and discussion 3. Smooth loading and consumption 4. Privacy (no data collection) 5. No constant selling Two main tasks: 1. Design to attract and entertain 2. Create marketing assets to rank fast
Businesses that can attract capital need to see a path to making money on nostr. I know that advertising is disliked here, but it's because the current internet ad model is tightly coupled with surveillance. Nostr has the chance to redefine how ads are delivered. I believe zapping people gets their attention better than anything. If zap ad conversion rates can be favorably compared to normal ads, then there is incentive for capital to build larger zap-ready audiences.
Bitcoin Circular Economies that use the Lightning Network is the biggest draw, and the problem is that the communities that need those structures the most are usually in the locations where Internet bandwidth is lacking or the most expensive per KB. I mean, it still works to transfer value via phone from person to person, but building a large enough network to start to build a monetary foundation for an entire community is a long haul project, not something to be taken lightly or just mentioned in passing. Nostr being a single global platform where everyone is equal hasn't been seen since the early days of myspace. We need to relearn what a social network is, how it is built, and how it connects to the larger world IRL and economy.
We need to relearn human psychology, specifically what brings people together and what inspires them to open Instagram, YouTube, or TikTok. The majority don’t care about earning or monetizing their content or comments—95% of the audience is just there for fun (except on LinkedIn). Only businesses and creators care about fast lightning and Zaps reactions on posts; the majority still care about fun, value, and entertainment. Let's go back to standard and purpose of networking sites. Connect with unexplored places and people without worrying about your country's permissions or content blocking. Connect with world on Nostr without taking permissions.
Nostr and the LN combines open global connections with the ability to conduct commerce locally for all goods and services. Reaching out across the world is an option and a choice, but paying for the food you eat, for the expenses of housing, education and health care, for all the things we enjoy, that's the real power that we have given over to gate keepers and middle men for centuries. That's the power we need to take back, using a medium of exchange and unit of account that doesn't fail as a store of value over time.
The only issue I have with my Nostr client (primal) is that the refresh is slow ... other than that not bad at all.... I also can't send photos on private messages 😕
I think the strongest incentive for nostr comes from the "own your audience" or better put "own your connections". This comes from owning your online identity. Nostr will be the only place where you will be able to build a reputation that lasts FOREVER. Comms need to be directed towards people with something to offer: Serious content creators, businesses, freelancers, open-source project leaders etc. They have skin in the game as they will ALWAYS lose their hard-earned reputation until they realize, on nostr your connections i.e. your reputation cannot be rugged. Don't waste your time on silly normies with nothing to gain, nothing to lose. So the message becomes: "If you start to build your audience on nostr apps you will make compounded gains without the fear of rugpull - Otherwise you will be left behind by people who made that choice earlier. Sure it takes courage. Sure it takes work to onboard your audience and explain how things work here differently but this is such a small cost compared to the guarantees nostr provides: Your everlasting online identity that cannot be canceled, corrupted or owned by anyone but you." Time is on the side of builders on nostr.
This approach is for the few creators who really think about legacy and long-term purpose. Most creators are shortsighted, only looking for quick fame and monetary benefits within a few months or 1-2 years. If they don't see traction within a few months, they stop creating and start chasing another platform, like TikTokers becoming YouTubers or YouTubers becoming TikTokers. TikTok provided fast Fame Youtube provided a good amount For 4% of creators, this approach can work. Need to think about the other 96% of creators.
Agree and disagree. So how does an echo chamber work. Is the first attempt. Which is really how think your thinking. The point of a positive echo chamber is new ideas grow and hopefully flourish. The Meztdow and CPunks among others, was the opportunity to collaborate in a deformed discussion. Best ideas got to the top with critical thinkers. And that brainstormed. The point of open honest conversation is to agree on the smartest ideas. That’s it.
You just make more articles to keep people interested. What happens when people stop reading your shit? You have nothing to back it up?
I think the best narrative is interconnection of different apps. You get app with reviews of restaurants from your friends. Highlights of content. Posts and images. You can meet your friends at events. All these apps use the same identity and social graph. It's like if Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Medium, Yelp, Meetup, ... used the same backbone.
I think this is a strong angle. That being said, I do see some challenges in having my identity shared across multiple different platforms. For example. People communicate with their audiences quite differently on Instagram, compared with X, compared with Substack, and certainly when compared with LinkedIn. I’ve had a number of conversations with content creators who’ve mentioned this. It’s not a deal breaker for them, but it’s something I don’t have a very clear answer for. But overall - I think the portable identity and portable social graph is the biggest benefit, and the one worth leaning into with messaging & comms.
Yes. One possible angle is that they won't do it like that. If you post a photo, someone might look at it in a photo viewing app like Instagram, some might see it as a blog or a microblog. People looking at Nostr on Twitter often search for social media management app that can repost content from Twitter to Nostr. I always suggest not to do that, Nostr is different and has its own language and interactions are different. And it's best to get a feel for it first. For creators, there are two ways of looking at it. First is that there is not much engagement here, you can't target, you can't convince the algorithm to show your posts. The old tricks don't work. On the other hand, for some niches, Nostr still is the least crowded channel (idea I got from Tim Ferris's work). Your competition is probably not here yet. It feels like town square, there is a nicer vibe to it. But maybe it just isn't for creators, maybe it's for a few of us and it'll stay like it and it's ok.
Organisations are not only talking about Nostr but actually joining Nostr: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/britishblockchain_bba-nostr-socialmedia-activity-7231064694122254336-E65J?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios
Agree that censorship resistance is not enough of a feature for the average person to be interested in Nostr. But I disagree that if we can’t capture the freedom money group then we’re SOL. Nostr has more opportunities than freedom perks (although they are important), and I’m personally excited for Nostr to be able to recommend content that’s much more interesting than what’s on YouTube/Tiktok etc.. Escaping the data silos of big tech means that user information and posts across the network can be used and manipulated in new ways. User choice of a specific algorithm is HUGE and I don’t think this should be overlooked. We’re talking about fine tuning parameters so that each time you open the home page of an app, you’re actually interested in most of the content presented to you. Can’t tell you how many times YouTube recommends the same videos over and over, or more clickbait esque videos about how the world is burning and all hope is lost. Customizing your own algorithm means having the ability to filter out a lot of this.
I'm just a user, not a dev, so it's easy for me to say this and feel free to ignore my uninformed position, but... Let it struggle. Good stuff takes time and grows more resilient through the struggle. Seems like Nostr has had great legs already. I don't think we should seek mass adoption because privacy and censorship are not valued in society overall right now - it would be futile - and tricking normies into using it will help in the long run. It won't have mass adoption until those values return, and they won't for a long time or until a critical mass changed their minds. Until Nostr I hadn't used any type of social media for over a decade, and I just felt that Nostr was worthy of my efforts to participate. We have to keep going as the minority.. the 20% to make 80% of the change nostr:nevent1qqsvn5pqau7dn4spqydgftwryvlx0d2mjn2jelvhhh7c8n2hlsumw3qpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsygr26zpe95d650m07755p832chj5gdv8yewckjjcr3sx0kyw5vq4sspsgqqqqqqs86f35c
"Collections" work just like bookmarks, but they're visible to others, acting as a human discovery algorithm. The note you zap the most will appear at the top of your collection.
This is going to be one of the biggest features for @Satlantis
Nostr is more than a Social Network platform. Maybe you wanted to write only about Social media clients and not about the main NOSTR protocol. @Mostro is working, https://nostrnests.com/ is working, https://nostree.me/ is working and so on. Nostr is not struggling, Nostr is working but it needs more time
Perhaps. But those are still niche niche niche niche niche products. I say niche 5 times and that’s still probably too generous. Yes - things need to start somewhere, and maybe time is all that’s needed. But I’d like to put some effort into the right places (communication and marketing) so that the time we have is more effectively utilised
Speak for yourself, I've been doing my thing and I've never used X. I'm streaming str8 goodness in the mornings, get more Indie Web folks by not banging on about money and "owning the libs". I don't know how many folks here have hobbies outside money? That's a good start. Each one teach one. No context Phil Collins ftw.
Nostr is as good as dead as far as growth is concerned. It is and will remain a marginal phenomenon. Nostr will never become more than a Bitcoin nerd niche.
the issue is people are never aware of censorship because they are fundamentally repeaters and if any idea is banned they can never notice it because before they can be punished for repeating it they must first hear it somewhere but they never do since it is banned ... thus people on every platform believe they have freedom of speech because everyone who realizes there is no freedom of speech on that platform - is banned from that platform ... all of you loser slaves here are transplants from other slave platforms and honestly have no use for freedom since you can't say anything that would be banned elsewhere anyway ... only way for NOSTR to be meaningful is to recruit people with the most extreme ideas not accepted anywhere else - for example Pedophilia, Incest and a total ban on religion - including both Christianity and Judaism. so far only myself, @vermeil_kisser and @A. Linder express ANY ideas that would get us banned from other platforms. the rest of you don't know why you're here. @Mike Dilger
Did not know the A. Linder guy. Will follow him. Hope he is into TND.
Linder believes that the key to defeating Jews is dismantling Christianity he sees Christianity as enabling Jews that's his thesis i agree with him that Christianity is Horse Shit but to me it would be such even without their worship of Jews and Israel ...
Christianity is very flawed when taken seriously, since it leads to viewing niggers as equal humans. That said, I did recently clip Jay Dyer saying Eastern Orthodox allows 15 yo women to get married. So, it's not completely worthless. Just very flawed. I always vouch that White Patriarchy is the only way forward, so I do wonder if an atheistic version of it would be sufficient to replace Christianity.
the main issue is why do we need a 6,000 year old book written by Kikes to give us permission to do anything ?
It's mostly to keep criminality down. Like, to give men fear of something greater, so that they steal less, rape less, etc. Andrew 'Cuckold' Wilson would say that all societies need some theology, and that, even in the USSR, figures such as Stalin would become the "gods" of the nation. Same case for Mao and China from his time. Oh well.
there is an easier way to keep criminality down. TOTAL NIGGER DEATH. @Low Information Voter
Well said. With the Telegram ceo arrest, censorship is top of mind for many Bitcoiners. Seems worth it to pitch them on nostr as many aren’t here and some are using Twitter. Broadly, the pitch need to be tailored to specific groups of people. What is the imoortant problem nostr *uniquely* solves for: Current users? Many Bitcoiners not on here. The next (bigger) group of users? Who might hey be and why? Are they eBay people? What *unmet* need does nostr meet for any group of folks?
Didn't age well, patience is important. The adoption will happen cycles, likely similar to bitcoin. It's like saying bitcoin is struggling every time the price goes down. Takes time! nostr:note1e8gzpmeum8tqzqg6sjkuxge7v764h9x49n7e000as0x40lpekazqfhwk8f
I think direct lightning payments is pretty cool
Twitter clones are one thing it does well but it needs an instagram, YouTube and WhatsApp clones too
Using a lot of IG inspiration in @Satlantis - stay tuned
I for one am not susceptible to bandwagoning and bribery. Blackmail, however. Yep. I am unfortunately still mortal.
i don't care if the Pope or whoever is corrupt etc. my question remains - why the fuck do i need that faggot to begin with ?
we need Christianity like we need Circumcision. we don't. it's all harm for no benefit at all.
