Oddbean new post about | logout

Notes by Vitor Pamplona | export

 Comment below if you want me to review your relay lists. I have a couple hours to spare. 
 Hit the Default button o SEARCH to add a few relays. Otherwise @ tagging will suck. 
 Primal doesn't allow you to setup your inbox/outbox I think, so go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 Primal doesn't allow you to setup your inbox/outbox I think, so go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 Delete these from inbox/outbox. They don't even connect. They are either wrong or gone.
relay.nostriches.org
nostr.sovrgn.co.za
offchain.pub 
 Add relay.primal.net and nostr.mom to your general relay list. You can turn off the Global icon in that list for these two items.  
 Inbox/Outbox is good. 

Add: auth.nostr1.com and nos.lol to your Private Inbox/DM list. 

Click DEFAULT on SEARCH to add search relays.  
 All good. Add relay.primal.net to your General list 
 Are you on primal or amethyst? You have way too many inbox/outbox relays. If you are on Primal go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ. 
 You don't have any inbox/outbox relays. You should add nos.lol and maybe relay.damus.io there 
 Way too many inbox outbox relays. Just pick 3 that you are SURE have your posts. 

If you are on Primal go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 Way too many inbox/outbox. Just pick the 3 that you are absolutely sure keep your posts for OUTBOX and free ones like nos.lol, nostr.mom to receive your Public INBOX. 

You also don't have Search relays setup. Which means @ tagging on Amethyst will not work well.  Click the Default button to add our recommendations.  
 Remove 1 or two from your OutBox/Inbox lists. 

If you are on Amethyst, click the Default button on the SEARCH relays to set up our recommendations. 

Add to General Relay Section: 
- relay.damus.io
- nos.lol
- nostr.wine (download only) 
 All good, just remove purplepages.es from your inbox and outbox. That relay doesn't store your posts.  
 Are you on primal? 

You have way too many inbox/outbox relays. Go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 Looks great assuming you pay for nostr.wine. 

Go to the list, on the SEARCH relays hit the Default button to get @ tagging working better.  
 Public Outbox is good. 

PUBLIC Inbox is bad. Delete nostr.wine and auth.nostr1.com and add nos.lol and nostr.mom. 

Private inbox is good.

SEARCH relays are bad. Hit the default button to reset from our recommendations. 
 Remove filter.nostr.wine from Outbox and nostr.wine from inbox. 

If you are paying for nostr.wine, add it to the OUTBOX. 

Add nos.lol to public inbox. 
 Are you on primal or amethyst? You have way too many inbox/outbox relays. If you are on Primal go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ. 
 Just keep the General Relay list on Amethyst as is. Damus will use that part.  
 Remove you.nostr1.com from your DM Relay list. 

Add nos.lol and nostr.mom to your Outbox AND Inbox lists. 
 Your Public Inbox and Public Outbox are very bad. Delete the one that is there today and add: 

nos.lol , nostr.mom and relay.nostr.bg on PUBLIC OUTBOX and PUBLIC INBOX.  
 Remove snort's relay from your INBOX. 

If you are paying for Snort's relay, move it to the OUTBOX.  
 Are you on primal or amethyst? You have way too many inbox/outbox relays. If you are on Primal go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 Way too many inbox/Outbox. 

Pick 3 Outbox relays that you know have ALL your posts. Or pick the 3 that youi know will not delete your stiff. 

Pick 3 Inbox relays that are free so any one can write for you. 

They can be the same. But Outbox can be paid, inbox must be free (otherwise you don't get notifications).  
 Really good. No need to change anything. 

You are the first that I didn't need to adjust. 
 Are you paying for relay.snort.social? If not, remove it from your Public Outbox and Inbox lists. The rest is great.  
 Way too many Outbox and Inbox relays. Pick just 3. nos.lol, nostr.mom, relay.damus.io look good for both.

If you are paying for any relay, it goes to Outbox. 

The rest seems fine.  
 Are you on primal or amethyst? You have way too many inbox/outbox relays. If you are on Primal go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 Too many inbox/Outbox. 

Are you on primal or amethyst? You have way too many inbox/outbox relays. If you are on Primal go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 Remove nostr.wine from inbox

Remove purplepages.es from Outbox.

Click Default on the Search List's button to make @ tagging work better.  
 Looks all good. I wouldn't use relay.nostr.band as Outbox, but it's up to you.  
 Delete from outbox/inbox.
 purplepages
 cheeserobot.org
 tunestr.io
 yuhr.org
 
Hit the Search list's button to make @ tagging work better 
 All good. I would go to the recommended section and add utxo and mostr's relay to the general section (just press the button).  
 127 relays??? WTF? 

Seriously, the client is only connecting to the first 30 relays.. The rest is just consuming your data plan. 

Pick 3 for inbox and Outbox. Leave aobut 20 on the General list. 

If you want delete all the General List and add relays from the Recommended section back into  it. The recommendations come from your Follows.  
 Are you paying for filter.nostr.wine? 

I would not use that as Inbox. 

Try subscribing to nostr.wine and then adding that one to Outbox.  
 If you are paying for nostr.wine, keep that one on Outbox and choose another 2. 

Pick three free relays for the Public Inbox. 

The rest looks fine.  
 Are you on primal or amethyst? You have way too many inbox/outbox relays. If you are on Primal go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 Are you on primal or amethyst? You have way too many inbox/outbox relays. If you are on Primal go to https://metadata.nostr.com/ log in, click relays and pick 3 that you are SURE to have all of your posts and mark them as WRITE. Then pick 3 (it can be the same) that ANYONE can write into (no paid relays) and select READ.  
 I wouldn't use citrine for Search. I would just use the default items there. 

If you want DM notifications directly on amethyst, add nos.lol to your Private Inbox. This makes your DMs visible to others.  
 Add nos.lol, nostr.mom and relay.damus.io to your PUBLIC OUTBOX and PUBLIC INBOX.

The rest is good.  
 Remove Eden from inbox. And make sure you are paying for Snort's relay in the Outbox.  
 I would add another one for redundancy, like nos.lol  
 Public Inbox is wrong. Delete all of them and add nos.lol, nostr.mom and maybe relay.damus.io

Remove purple pages and filter.nostr.wine from the Search relays. Click the Default button to add the other two relays with search available. This improves @ tagging 
 Looks good, just remove cellar from Public Inbox  
 Only if you want DM notifications. Your DMs are now so private that even our Push Notification server cannot see them. So, if you want them, you need an opening, but everyone else will also see your events.  
 Inbox, Outbox and Search are wrong. Make sure there are no spaces in these addresses (yours have lots of spaces)

On Inbox and Outbox, add: 
- nos.lol
- nostr.mom
- relay.damus.io

For private inbox/DM, add: 
- nos.lol
- auth.nostr1.com

On Search, hit the default button.  
 I don't know if Pokey is already AUTHing with your Amber key. That will be required to see your DMs. 
 I gave up trying to understand how their stuff actually works. 
 Two people talking about essential oils on the train: 

...
P1: Try this one... it's from an Amethyst
ME: <whaaaat?>
P2: Does it smell like Amethyst? 
ME: <WAT????>
P1: Yeah, it's good when you need some peaceful time for yourself.
ME: 
https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/mace-windu-900x506.jpeg 
 I will make a client called stool just so you can make this joke.  
 Love that is has vitamin E  
 nostr1.com is experiencing a partial unplanned outage. (and nostr21.com relay) most relays still ... 
 Why are you censoring us? 
 If my relay doesn't come back I will show you why Amethyst is so large.  
 Will doesn't have Amethyst to have a good reference for battery drain.  
 Peak Nostr (Pokey now has embed Tor too, so there are 4 services here)
nostr:nevent1qqsqhjn89vxcwr08523x4jx23qtg9umjfsh4tsm3j3sk3fmtdrsj8qqpzemhxue69uhkummnw3ex2mrfw3jhxtn0wfnj7q3q8ams6ewn5aj2n3wt2qawzglx9mr4nzksxhvrdc4gzrecw7n5tvjqxpqqqqqqzjpxddq 
 Looks like this is a max String size for the filter of 65535 from StrFry 🤔 
 We are breaking it down now by outbox relays, so the list will only include users that have that relay listed on it. But if everyone uses it, it will easily go over the 65000 chars limit from StrFry. Anything over 928 keys cannot use StrFry to download unless it rotates the key list over time. Managing the rotation with the EOSE marks is just hard to do.  
 BTW, I don't think we are ever going to fix this completely until we get something like https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1434 with that number in it. 

Amethyst is already chunking stuff, but there are always new things we forget to chunck or that chunking becomes too complex. 

Cat and mouse game. 
 It might be that the only solution is to get a new Tor exit node and split the query into separate connections... 

I don't know... My issue right now is that because of the number of filter limits (12 or so) + numberof subscription limits (10 or so), we bundled everything the app does in 10 subs and those subs are getting really large that are now breaking the req size limit....  
 I guess the question to relay operators is: what's heavier to process? 

1. Lots of filters in one sub
2. Lots of subs, with one filter. 
3. Lots of connections with one sub, one filter.

Because that's the dance clients do ALL THE TIME. 
 From a client perspective, we would choose 100s of subs with a few filters each in one connection. 
 That's my issue with nip-11... It's all informational. So most relays have it wrong. We can't rely on it to make decisions. We need to turn this into core protocol features to get the to be widely used and pushing the relay operator (by having less queries) if they are not in sync.  
 Yeah, if they just copy paste it, then it's the same thing. But my hope was to make clients always comply with limits for their own benefit and because of that if the relay's limits are wrong the client will use less of that relay, which will make things disappear for users pissing off a lot of people and hopefully fixing the limits of the relay.  
 I have never broken down into many subs, but if I wanted to maximize the use of bandwidth and use EOSEs to the full extend they can offer, I bet it would be close to 120 subs, simply because now we are at the limit with 12 filters * 10 subs.  
 Not that this is an average number. This is for Amethyst and we load everything all the time. 

So... Not really your average Nostr app. 
 Should extract a testing library? :)  
 Better code quality, basically. With each subscription managed separately, we could time them better (sending most important stuff first, relay starts processing then send the rest), we could store the EOSE in the sub object itself instead of one EOSE for all queries involving a user and then having to find the minimum EOSE when more than one user is put together in the same call, etc..  
 lol.. Venmo wants me back. 
 It helps you detach yourself from your money and help you transcend from this dirty material world into a blessed living-the-moment chakra 
 Who is behind memestr.app?  
 If abortion is good, why do politicans keep calling it "reproductive health"?

Just say abortion ... 
 Man can also keep their dicks in their pants.  
 I can use abortion just fine. I am happy with any abortion as long as the woman has the freedom to choose it.  
 Happy is too strong. But Ok with it.  
 It's because for men, it's only about the abortion itself. For woman, it's so much more. The abortion tiself is just a very small and quick component to the entire process.  
 This is no person until much, much later. And if the woman is contemplating an abortion much later in the process, I can guarantee you she wanted to have the child and is only doing it against her will (health purposes). Later stage abortion is a huge punishment on itself to any woman. There is no need to create laws to double down in the punishment side. 
 Correct. And we will never agree. So, let the woman just choose it whatever works better for her. The later the abortion, the worse for her anyway. 
 Why not default to protecting life instead of murder? Why not spend resources to help the mother with pregnancy and taking care of the child or adoption?

You can. You just can't force the mother to carry on something on HER BODY that she doesn't want to. But feel free to develop mechanisms that the fetus can develop outside the mother.  
 Periodic reminder to keep a max of 3 relays in your outbox and inbox relay lists. 

There are too many people with 20+ relays in there. You are forcing all of your followers to connect to 20+ relays to see your posts (outbox) or 20 + relays to see your replies, likes, zaps to your posts (inbox). Zaps to you are massive. 

And I am willing to bet many relays in your list don't even receive your posts. Which is even more wasteful for your followers. 
 Ping time in milliseconds 
 No, the "one in common" strategy is the legacy strategy. The outbox model changes it to "this is my relays" strategy where users have to download the relay list for all the people they follow and then process the list into a mega relay list, connect to all of them and download the data.  
 They don't relay your data to other relays. They just store it, like a regular relay would. 

However, your followers will connect directly to them, regardless of your followers relay setup. That's how the outbox model works. It doesn't use fixed relay lists. The relay list is dynamically assembled from a super set of relays from everyone you follow. 
 If you are on Amethyst, you should add to the general relays section, not to the outbox 
 That's awesome. Nostr.wine is great for an Outbox relay but doesn't really work as Inbox, since it charges to post. People sending you replies, zaps, likes, etc will have to pay for Nostr.wine for it to accept their posts. 

But the others work, you can use nos.lol, damus or nostr.mom as Inbox. 

For PRIVATE Inbox, where your DMs go, you can use auth.nostr1.com or inbox.nostr.wine (another payment) to keep your DMs VERY private. Or just add nos.lol or nostr.mom to make it less private, but allow Amethyst to provide DM notifications.  
 I just saw yours, all of the lists are fine, you just need to reduce the first one, the Outbox. Just pick the 3 relays you are SURE keep all your posts. 

Move the others to General if they are not already there.  
 No, Damus does not support Inbox/Outbox yet. You can leave the list as you have for now.  
 They will need to fetch the picture in the relay you are hosting. But they already do that with any quote inside a kind1 
 Hot take on the #pubky protocol.  Bits I like, bits I dont like, bits that involve trade-offs.  O... 
 I give up...