Oddbean new post about login | logout If abortion is good, why do politicans keep calling it "reproductive health"? Just say abortion proudly if you believe it, why play word games?
We know why.
Because they love playing word games. Makes them seem more empathetic, like they actually “care” about citizens 🤡
Abortion has always been and will always be murder. Feminists say it is their body, this is the level of insanity they have, it is not their body, it is another human's body.
You are one of the most anti state accounts around, what do you propose that doesn't require expansion of state and unreal levels of invasion of privacy?
I feel flattered that you tell me that 😂. To fight against the state the only solution is the counter-economy, i.e. the black market to gradually erode the state's ability to finance itself through tax theft. Do not underestimate the counter-economy, the black market was one of the reasons for the fall of the USSR.
I mean for the abortion issue specifically. Controlling it requires an unthinkable amount of state and loss of privacy. Long before modern medicine they had solutions such as massive doses of vitamin C. My point is, getting sucked into the abortion debate is getting sucked into statism. Your moral decisions for you and your sex partners are a completely separate issue and it is very easy for you to do the right thing. Anyone else following your rules is a different matter.
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It's a self-centered act, and so in defending it it's important to keep the focus on the mother's body and not on the unborn infant being murdered.
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The "a" word in "bodily autonomy" is too much of a concession 😔
90% of politicians are fckin swindlers. Sugarcoating, lying and stealing is their forté. A common occurrence among the unproductive class.
It's funny how many gov-fighting bitcoiners are against woman, and not government, deciding what to do with their own body. It's almost as if they don't actually believe in freedom.
woman can keep her legs closed rape is a different story abortion can end a woman's ability to have children ever, if she ever wakes up to herself, then what... it's not just a tattoo
Man can also keep their dicks in their pants.
this is why a secular society that has no sacred value on the creation of life decays stupid people breed too much smart people don't breed overall this results in use of abortions and contraceptives that disrupt women's fertility and then you get a baby bust and then the migrants invade and then the crime rate goes through the roof and everything gets burned down and the survivers start again it's literaly happened hundreds of times in history... the symbol of the heart ❤️ is actually based on the shape of a leaf of a plant that causes abortions in the first week, and was very popular in the late days of rome, they had it also russia, in between the tsars falling down and communists rising, you can read it in Dostoevsky's masterpiece Crime and Punishment that there was "free love" cults running rampant in St Petersberg in the late 19th century, and very likely plenty of abortions going on as well really it's all symptoms of a society that has lost a sense of the value of life
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I notice that you also didn't use the word abortion in this argument Why can't we just have precision when we discuss these matters? Thats more what I'm trying to get at here I don't think they are "against women" I think they are against aborting babies?
I can use abortion just fine. I am happy with any abortion as long as the woman has the freedom to choose it.
Happy is too strong. But Ok with it.
Yes I think it's much more honest if we discuss it like this instead of saying "reproductive health" or "against women" - it's a precise thing we are discussing, not a category of health or gender. This is my point, that we try to use Word games to avoid just having a clear discussion about it, more just trying to demonize each other. It just muddies the waters
It's because for men, it's only about the abortion itself. For woman, it's so much more. The abortion tiself is just a very small and quick component to the entire process.
The person inside the womb has a seperate body from the mother.
This is no person until much, much later. And if the woman is contemplating an abortion much later in the process, I can guarantee you she wanted to have the child and is only doing it against her will (health purposes). Later stage abortion is a huge punishment on itself to any woman. There is no need to create laws to double down in the punishment side.
If we can't agree on when life begins this debate will never be settled. No point arguing. I believe this is the root.
Correct. And we will never agree. So, let the woman just choose it whatever works better for her. The later the abortion, the worse for her anyway.
Another solution is to have some places that allow, some places that don't, and allow people to freely self select the jurisdiction that aligns with their values, that way people don't have to compromise
except it is not so simple to change where you live.
Definitely not simple, and this is not a simple problem we've been grappling with for so long, I don't know the answers Just thankful for nostr that we can attempt to have a free and open discussion about it, hopefully from the starting place that we are on the same team and not horrible people for having different opinions
If we can't decide on when life begins, let her kill her child after birth, as well, if it is better for her? Why not as a toddler, if it is a burden? It's not a fully-formed human, the same argument applies. Why not default to protecting life as a default instead of murder? Why not spend resources to help the mother with pregnancy and taking care of the child or adoption? If there are alternatives to killing innocent life, why not pursue them instead?
Why not default to protecting life instead of murder? Why not spend resources to help the mother with pregnancy and taking care of the child or adoption? You can. You just can't force the mother to carry on something on HER BODY that she doesn't want to. But feel free to develop mechanisms that the fetus can develop outside the mother.
Happy with killing a child? Happy with your wife killing your son against your will? Happy with ripping a baby up in the womb? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eR1Ut4BPbOw
You are missing that there are two humans involved.
Yep this is the root for sure, will never settle.
Life begins at conception.
https://image.nostr.build/469e796574564521cae2ed9daff2db08005791a087197a1c928ee444d4ba7974.gif
Well... That statement is just scientific fact. So... https://media.tenor.com/ezHTpJeCQi8AAAAM/wrong-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson.gif
If life is defined with metabolism, sure. Many organisms have metabolism, across the kingdoms. So then is it consciousness? Lots of organisms are conscious. What sets apart human life? Meaning? Potential? Experience?
Do I really have to explain how humans are intrinsically different from all other animals?
Dude yes please do cause we aren't. You're a fuckin animal dude
Humans are not animals because we have imagination, logic, science, written language etc. Arguing about what a “human” is, debating the proper course of action, having power over the natural world- these are what makes us Human. It is what the Bible is referring to when it teaches us that we are created in the image of God, to be Stewards of the Earth.
I prefer to say we are rational animals capable of logic, long term goal orientation, and advanced creativity. Still animals technically, but very much in our own league of animals. This nomenclature is much more consistent.
Still doesn’t explain why we have the right to property on earth and animals don’t.
Actually it does. Legitimate property is the stuff that we have the information necessary to control without hurting others. Animals are not able to manage much but their own bodies and nests and stuff. Humans can manage far more. We have the ability to reason at a much more advanced level. We need these things to survive, and we have the ability to use them and to do so without hurting others for it. We have dominion over other life forms generally speaking, because we are, well, just able to. We're designed that way. We are tapped into logic, the logos of this universe, and are therefore endowed with the ability to be stewards of it.
Sure even that is fair enough. We're all flesh but we aren't mere beasts. Man is destined for greater, that's cool. But then what part is the part that isn't ok to snuff out? Cause if flesh-life starts at conception, and continues to death, that's the case for all of the creatures. I can kill and eat a beast. Should not torture the beast or cause undue suffering... Is aborting a calf as heinous as aborting a human?
Completely agree.
Abortion is just a form of euthenasia. Kill your offspring. Kill your grandma. Kill yourself. Culture of Death.
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This, exactly this. Guns, abortion and immigration are all great triggers to get the closet statists to out themselves. This is why they are always top of the debates, great for manufacturing consent for more government power. They get the most population to line up and beg for a boot to lick.
This is inconsistent. Killing another human is not deciding what to do with your own body. Drawing some arbitrary line of personhood is barbaric. It is a human being in it's natural phase of development, at any stage.
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Because they have to convince their crowd and themselves that they aren't commiting a moral atrocity.
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How can we live in a free society if the most innocent among us are not afford the same protection as the rest of us.
Can we at least agree that abortion does violence to a human fetus?
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why don’t you go educate yourself on the many reading why they say reproductive health, you fucking moron.
Reproductive health entails many types of medicines and procedures, abortion being one of them. You can be against one and not the entire medical category, no? I haven't taken any position on this other than to say we should use precise language? How am I a moron?
you’re muddying the waters by starting a discussion on a topic you obviously aren’t well informed about, and it is so very obviously that you are without the sophistication to think of how things affect each other—bigger picture kinda stuff, which is why you posted what you posted in the first place. ugh! 😩😣
Abortion as a wedge issue is the monoparty picking its direction with some AB testing. Results are in. They have manufactured consent and will be expanding their power briefly. Fiat currencies sort of work the exact same say a ponzi scheme sort of works. The population must go up or it collapses. So, they will force immigration or 0 abortions ever on us to that end. Then that won't be enough and they'll change it to completely open borders and no reproductive healthcare that reduces new babies count. Note that they are already floating the idea of making reproductive healthcare that increases the odds of pregnancy free in the land of any common cold could bankrupt you. I chose the language I chose because the issue and the real cause you are fighting for is some fiat statist bullshit that includes far more than abortions. Making it about abortion even though it is a small part of the cause and what is at risk is doing really well in manufacturing consent for more statist power and more slaves for their ponzi though.
They use "reproductive health" becuse "abortion" is a strong sounding word that could hurt "their peoples" feelings.
I’m guessing bc anti-abortion people are so vehemently against it that it has too much connotation with their propaganda for politicians to think they’d net-gain public favor using that word Also because “reproductive health” doesn’t only mean the right to have abortions. IVF for example falls under that, i’m pretty sure Btw regardless of what side we each might fall on in this highly productive abortion debate (which mostly relies on whether someone’s religious), this is all happening in the human layer/fiat matrix and politicians never say what they mean anyway, so a) it’s complicated, and b) why would this be any different
It's not just about abortion, there are groups that advocate for prohibition of contraceptives as well. Abortion is just the first target.
A Texas woman died because hospital said it would be a crime to intervene in her miscarriage. https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban
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