aren’t art generation tools just a new part of the artists toolkit? 

 sound money, sound advice 🤙 

 also, bitcoin dogma was not always this way and certainly won’t be forever in the future this way. Just a moment in time kinda thing rn. 

 Yeah, preachy-ness can border on “thought police” and the whole thing should be about freedom to think independently 

 unfortunately, prob makes sense. What do you think nostr needs to be the kind of place that would be worth recommending to them? Diff apps, diff creators/content, diff filter/discovery mechanisms or just kinda “know it when I see it”? 

 oh we got that! 🤪 

 agree things are more fungible when new. I guess I see bitcoin as still in that new/chaotic/pre-establishment phase so I’m expecting a lot more culture/change before we’ve seen ossified culture around it. 

 I’m a huge fan of Damus (and typing into the Damus MacOS app as we chat here), but I think it’s just one of many things nostr could be.

I believe new experiences and content will change who is attracted to participate here. 

 I don’t think the answer is “leave”, but will eventually be “join a different app/relay/filtering mechanism/community that is to your liking” 

 I suspect there are two possible forms of breakout growth for nostr:

1) some totally new experience that can’t be done with existing platforms (e.g. zaps).

2) appreciation of the neutrality causes some other at/sub-scale networks to opt for nostr as a way to avoid dealing with content moderation/“free-speech” goals directly

I think censorship resistance and interoperability are correct, but too theoretical for most users to care about directly. 

 more of the establishment is curious about bitcoin than ever before (prob mostly for “NGU tech”), but it’s still a small niche of finance

not a mainstream thing yet. If it were I prob would’ve moved on by now ;) 

 is this a reboot of a badges thing from about a year ago? i thought i remembered playing with something like this with @Max awhile back. similar domain names IIRC 

 Love what you are doing! I have the patience of Job. Just want to communicate to my counterparty who may have less patience. 😉

I didn’t know about Notecrumbs. I assume it’s a standard/NIP that attempts to hint at identities/relays for a given note? 

 @elsat are njump and notecrumbs related? 

 sounds like they may also need bitcoin 

 I find that it really helps me stress-test my beliefs to argue for the other side 

 Yea, that’s basically where I’m coming from. Right now I’m writing up a piece tentatively titled “Steelmanning Ethereum”. I want to lay out the best arguments I can in support of Ethereum even though I’ve concluded the opposite. Also, I’m open to seeing what I find out through the process of writing (i.e. the process of thinking). 

 Yeah, I think holding two sides in your head is a good first step.

I find that, for me, new stuff always comes up once I start writing.

e.g. in your example, does life begin (murder occur?) at a certain moment or is it more of a continuum? good to articulate your beliefs as specifically as possible to figure out what you specifically believe 

 I guess bitcoin appeals to a certain type rn. I may be largely “that type”, but I don’t buy all the narratives. More bitcoiners should push back against bitcoin dogma. e.g. it’s okay to be vegan if that’s your thing, even though it’s not my thing 

 I think your reasoning here is sound.

I guess I don’t find my opinions so ossified on most topics. I’m still open to changing my mind on most things, though the threshold gets higher the more I’ve thought/written about something. 

 I think you can be a bitcoiner and be open to considering various forms of freedom both financial and otherwise.

e.g. a lot of bitcoiners are talking about ecash and various forms of stablecoins/stablecash these days. I even know hardcore bitcoiners who are developing stablecoin solutions that touch alternative L1s. this kind of stuff seems to more commonly discussed in private

I think there were fewer lanes of opinions considered reasonable pre-internet. There are vastly more lanes that people will express now. That opens up to better discovery of fundamental truths we may have missed before.

There’s more tribalism online now than there was pre-bitcoin. The online platforms were much less algorithmically driven pre-bitcoin. I think that’s the biggest change. 

 What are Bitcoin timepieces? Are they like block clocks? 

 Share some pics? :) 

 👀 

 I want to hear about new stuff from interesting/different people/viewpoints 

 What are your favorite other technologies? :) 

 Already following! Found you via @rabble recently, IIRC 

 i guess the most familiar analogies are websites/domains or email address? neither is a perfect explanation, obvs 

 Maybe something like “a cryptographic address to find people or services”. It’s a common way to address/identify people or services in the nostr way. 

 Maybe depends a bit on the specifics of who you’re describing NPUBs too and how deep their understanding already goes on this kinda stuff 

 I tried out some additional language to see if it helps at all:

nostr:note17grgk5xmcs9v9ygwmxknuyhj7xr6kngu8cls9e50hr06uamaefhsy5ymjc 

 is this primarily about how addressing on the web works with DNS, something around how browser rendering engines work, or something else entirely? 

 Yea, kinda cool how nostr events are pure information (and signed/verified at that) and remove any assumptions about how it might be rendered 

 You could think of an NPUB as similar to a username on a typical social network or an email address on the Internet. It’s an address which can help you identify a person.

It looks a little weird/different because it is created in a different way and can be used in many other ways, but as for the basics: think of it as username/email address on nostr 

 an NPUB is a cryptographic address

Here’s your NPUB: @Markola

you also have a more human-readable name which we call a NIP-05:
markola@nostrplebs.com

===
a little more detail since your avatar mentions bitcoin:

you know how in bitcoin you can just setup an address to receive bitcoin and you don’t have to rely on any central authority (e.g. JP Morgan/Chase, Bank of America, Coinbase, etc.) to setup a bank account or address or anything? this is kind of what an NPUB is trying to achieve, but for an Internet identity. Setup an identity (for social networking or maybe even another purpose) without having to ask a central authority (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc.) for permission.

Obviously the NPUB is kind of ugly and a hassle to explain to someone orally. So a NIP-05 is an identifier you can register to make it easier to explain to someone. But note, when you use a NIP-05 you’re relying on whoever owns the domain (in your case the owner of nostrplebs.com) to agree to let you exist.

NPUBs don’t require anyone to issue/agree to your identity. You just do math and have it. NPUB is a public key. NSEC is the private key that corresponds to your NPUB.

I found your NPUB and your NIP-05 on your profile. Different nostr clients may emphasize/hide these features depending on their goals. 

 Whoops... a lot of nostr clients try to make npubs prettier for users so depending on what client you’re using the npub I showed may not appear very ugly/cryptographic… I will attempt to make it more more raw to show you how it really looks by prefixing it with a - and putting it in quotation marks — no idea if this will work as I’m hoping…

-“@Markola” 

 I wouldn’t say it’s a huge risk particularly, but good to know the tradeoffs. I host a NIP-05 “username” at stacker.news. Just be aware that if you tell people “you can reach me on nostr by looking for markola@nostrplebs.com” that could become a common way people look for you.

then some day, for whatever reason, you say something that gets a government upset - they could try to hassle nostrplebs.com to take down your NIP-05 mapping. Anyone you’re connected to on nostr already will continue to be connected since connections happen around the NPUB/cryptography, but new people looking for you might find it hard to find you 

 are you trying to make me feel bad for zapping this note? 😅 

 group chats rule! 😝😝 

 what do you think would further support these fulfilling experiences?

i think the nature of digital is optimizable, so it’s really important to pick a good goal 

 these are cool ideas. has anyone tried showing the ratio of replies to original posts metrics? might indicate something about participation and p2p strength? or a score of the number of people any given user has replied to (and received a like or zap from the original poster)? 

 this is the energy we all need ⚡️ 

 which clients display badges today? 

 i agree this would be great. two things that would be important to making this experience work well is 1) user data and 2) algorithms. the magic of tiktok is that you don’t have to follow people to get good videos you just show up and start swiping. and the data you generate by dwelling on a video for longer, or leaving it to repeat, indicates to the system something that may give it a hint at what kinds of videos you might like (kind of like a “topic soft follow”). i think to do a good version of this on nostr in addition to video hosting (which i think is well under way with things like Blossom) we’d need more clarity on how to think about algorithms and user-consumption data and the selective revealing to clients. 

 what are the best examples of applications using DVMs today (shill me free and paid)? 

 check out the 4th tab

tapping on any one of these cells appears to initiate a DVM request. tho i haven’t had any succeed yet. ymmv. maybe it’s my hacky android emulator that’s borking things 🤷🏼‍♂️ 
https://m.primal.net/IWUl.png 

 i think that’s a reasonable way to think about them 

 i’m not using Amber. just a npub on an Android emulator on MacOS. maybe that’s part of my problem 

 yea, i can see how that makes sense. tho I’m cautious about using my private keys in an emulator 😅

may just try with throwaways 

 YES! 🙌 

 followed 

 indeed 😅 

 yea, prob right move 

 when you say “in an emulator” are you just trying to sandbox or using it with Apple OSes? 

 @Deleted Account and @Vitor Pamplona made me do it
https://m.primal.net/IVDb.png 

 do i need to get the APK from Google Play? Google Play complains that i don’t own a valid device 😝 

 say more? 

 🫂  clarity 

 happens all the time. offer price is frequently well below what we think of as “market”, but if liquidity is important to the seller (as it is to some) the discounted offer price doesn’t prevent the sale. seller values immediacy/convenience

like most spam, you just need a small percent to convert on a high value transaction 

 thanks for sharing! sounds like i should be reading more about Blossom now 

 ah, i don’t think i was clear that it created a mapping from npub to the blob. that does help a lot, thanks for clarifying.

fwiw, this discussion came up in private as i was working with a friend on exploring Highlighter’s long form blogging tool. looks like media is currently uploaded to nostr.build. is Blossom ready for a service like Highlighter to use or still need more development first? 

 this makes a ton of sense. thanks for clarifying! 

 It’s npubs all the way down lol… and that’s probably a good thing.

I’ve heard @calle 👁️⚡👁️ noting about npubs to address cashu mints

I was talking with someone recently about npubs to be website addresses and I think @PABLOF7z shared something like this today?

and now we’re learning from @hzrd149 that Blossom addresses a piece of media with an npub where the underlying serving location can be re-mapped making the media serving more resilient

maybe npubs are really about creating an abstraction/mapping layer when accessing any entity, be it person or service? 

 oooo… can’t wait to hear more. let me know when i can play with something?