Oddbean new post about login | logout Happy Easter. I grew up Catholic, then had an edgy teenager phase where I was a materialist world view atheist for a while. That ended around the time I realized modern atheism was itself a secular religion. Currently still struggling with my faith, but over the years I’ve come to conclude that Christianity and its precept of redemption is an extremely important pillar of American life. One nation. Under god. Indivisible. With liberty and justice for all. Beautiful. No other ideology can compete. We have so many things worth fighting for. Enjoy the day everyone.
✝️
Why do pillars of american life matter? As opposed to other countries?
I’m an American. I don’t care about other countries.
Yee haw 😂🤙
Except alien seeding theory.
Break everything down to first principles. Christianity is easy: right and wrong exist; sin’s penalty is death; Jesus’ death paid the penalty for our sin.
Genuine comment: 'Our sins' I don't get that part. What is sinning ? Why did Jesus have to die for my sins ?
It’s a corollary to the existence of right and wrong. You’d be rather uncommon if you’ve never done anything wrong. The first axiom here is the existence of right and wrong. This isn’t something one can prove. You either agree that right and wrong exist or you don’t. The difference between science and religion isn’t “science uses logic and religion doesn’t.” Science requires something that can be measured whereas religion requires belief in something that can not be measured. But both require logic. And both have axioms. But only science compels belief through repeatable measurement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corollary
The second axiom is the penalty for sin is death. This assumes there is someone to whom the penalty is owed. This someone presumably abhors sin… Does God exist? You’ll never prove it. You either agree or disagree. Is God good? Again, you either believe yes or no. But if he is good, what could he have to do with sin?
The third axiom is that the penalty for sin is death. You either believe God made this rule or you don’t. There will always be two ways to interpret an axiom: either it’s a self serving lie that uses debt to enslave people to some unspecified end or it’s the way God made the universe. You must choose your belief carefully. Logically. While Christianity fits together as a logical puzzle perfectly under these three axioms, you can interpret the same set of facts and arrive at the logical conclusion that Christianity is some great scam or trick with equal logic if you choose a different set of axioms.
One of the best explanations I had on this. Thank you
Circling back to your question on definition, sin is “an offense against God as well as a fault against reason, truth, and right conscience. Sin is a deliberate thought, word, deed, or omission contrary to the eternal law of God”. Essentially, anything that turns one away from God. Yet we don’t need divine revelation to have a sense of what sin is. God created humanity to be able to naturally discern good and evil through use of reason and right conscience. However, we can and do often err so divine revelation by His grace helps us get closer to living a good, loving life than we would be able to otherwise. Definitions are incredibly important. I encourage you to ask yourself what the definitions of “good”, “evil”, “truth”,“happiness”, “love”, and “freedom”. At least for me, the more I dug the more I realized the beauty of faith and Church teaching.
I feel like it's obvious what is good versus what is evil. Thanks for the answer. What turned me off about the message of a priest saying 'You are all sinners' is the attempt to shame people. That type of shaming just turns me off. But Dr MS makes a good case on the explanation of sins and sinning. You as well.
If good vs evil is always so obvious, why is there such a big disagreement on so many controversial issues? You and I know there’s evil everywhere but will we agree on what is and isn’t evil or will our definitions differ? Does evil exist substantially? If so, who created the evil if God is supposedly all good? St. Augustine answers this by pointing out that evil is the absence of good just as cold is the absence of heat. Then we’re back to square one, what does “good” mean? I don’t know you but I know you are a sinner (as long as you’re not some AI bot) because you share the same human nature I do. And our human nature was separated from God when Adam committed the first sin, which St. Augustine coins Original Sin. This now sinful nature is apparent as early as infancy when we see babies steal, be selfish, yell with anger, cry, strike others, etc. We do all of that even as adults. Original sin has more profound implications that I suggest you look into what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about it. To deny such a reality is to believe the heresy of Pelagianism which St. Augustine ardently battled. We need a redeemer to pay the wages of our sin. That redeemer must be spotless or else He has no redeeming ability. And so the lamb of God came in the flesh ~2000 years ago and died on the cross for you specifically. It’s true that people should not self flagellate themselves because to despair is to deny God His mercy and love for us which is a sin. But I urge you to humbly discern, is it your pride preventing you from recognizing truth? What is shameful about a full grown adult saying they’re taller than a newborn? Nothing because it’s reality. If you are actually a sinner (you are) then do not let your pride prevent you from going to the hospital for sinners, the Church. You will fall again and again since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But we are not God. Do adults ever get angry at a toddler for trying to walk and falling? No, we love seeing a baby go from sitting, to crawling, to walking, etc. Where we hurt as parents is when our toddler pushes us away. So, too, God’s saving grace is helping you even now as He keeps you in existence. Turn to Him and use the free will He gave you to become the saint in heaven He wants you to be.
There’s no end to man’s desire to use religion to manipulate others for wealth and power. But this is sin, not religion. Jesus himself “though divine he didn’t consider equality with God something to be grasped, but instead humbled himself and was obedient to death, even death on a cross.” (Paraphrased phillipians ch2 near the beginning).
Your soul is my target. I encourage you to keep seeking. Look everywhere. I believe there is only one place you will end up if you logically search until you are satisfied. Feel free to ping me with questions. There will be many that demand an answer.
Thank you
They separated state and religion for a reason.
Christians built America and allowed freedom from religious persecution for a reason.
“ Many of the founding fathers—Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe—practiced a faith called Deism. Deism is a philosophical belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems. Deists believe in a supreme being who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws—and after creation, is absent from the world. This belief in reason over dogma helped guide the founders toward a system of government that respected faiths like Christianity, while purposely isolating both from encroaching on one another so as not to dilute the overall purpose and objectives of either.”
“A treaty of peace and friendship between the United States and Tripoli that was approved by George Washington explicitly stated: “The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion…” This treaty was negotiated by the American diplomat Joel Barlow during the administration of George Washington. Washington read it and approved it, although it was not ratified by the senate until John Adams had become president.”
Sure. But Christianity doesn't need to be a pillar of what it means to be American. Or Christianity doesn't need to be a pillar of America.
Yeah it does.
Just cause you say it doesn't make it true. We can have a difference of opinion. But you talk so matter-of-fact when you really shouldn't. You are not the arbiter of what America is. Neither am I.
then who is you fucking nitwit?
I see you read the whole message. Thanks for reading.
Calvin Coolidge would disagree. https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/speech-on-the-occasion-of-the-one-hundred-and-fiftieth-anniversary-of-the-declaration-of-independence/
Yeah sure the guy who led everyone right into the great depression. Excuse me if I disregard his thoughts.
lmao... yer fucked bro. https://www.bitchute.com/video/KZ15jkgIru8x/
I'm fucked? Okay bro. Whatever will I do, I'm so fucked. Gtfo
yes. wrong and fucked.
Okay once again you are free to believe whatever you want, I'm also free to tell you I think you are wrong and a moron.
yeah but see it doesnt matter what you say because you are an uninformed idiot ... here , i recommend this - take your last incoherent and entirely idiotic statement which was something like, "i dont get to decide what america is either", and just shut your fucking mouth then...
Okay I see you haven't had adult conversations before. Good luck with this approach.
whats it like having the temperment of a 13-year old american teenager - female?
I'm saying your defense is full of ad hominem attacks. No substance. Just insults. So yeah I'm saying you don't know how to have an actual conversation without resorting to insults. It was pretty clear if you just look at the conversation. Especially considering no one was even talking to you.
having clearly snuffed reason out of what you clearly fancy as some type of "actualization", you have earned every ounce of ridicule. #hubrishuffer
What are you even trying to say here
forget it boo... back to marvel or whatever it is you normally do.
Alright boo
Hello 👋, how are you today? i can help you mine your nodes I don't know how interested you are
One nation, extremely divided (largely due to your made up God™️) with liberty and justice for all
Edgy teenager phase. I’ve been there.
Do you literally want to separate money from state, and un-separate church from state?
No. Dumb question.
Considering your note i replied to, i’m having trouble seeing why that’s a dumb question
I don’t think America can continue to exist as a free nation under a non Christian ideology, but I don’t believe it should covert into a theocracy. These are different layers. Your question is dumb because you’re assuming I’m talking about the governance layer when I’m talking about the ideological layer.
Man we are exactly at the same place. One thing that help me with my faith is: God given rights My rights to life, liberty and property were given by God Happy Easter
Never been to an atheist meetup and I don’t make a habit of discussing it. A few people that do doesn’t make it a secular religion. Sincerely happy for people that find peace and fulfillment in religion. Not sure why finding ways to insult atheist view is important to keeping a religious one. Everyone do you. Happy Easter to those that celebrate. But nah, Christianity is not a pillar of American life. Pillar means it would crumble and fall without. That’s a scary thought if this country can’t continue without it. Separation of church and state is a pillar. I’d fight to preserve everyone’s right to their own religion. Let’s move on to separation of money and state.
🎯
I also grew up in a very religious Christian Orthodox family and country. Went to church twice a week and maybe once a month to the monastery. Been an atheist/agnostic for the last ~12 years. I'm surprised how many people don't seem to realise that their religion/faith is heavily influenced by when and where they were born/raised. To me, the fact that there are so many faiths, religions, and gods, all with their own individual claims and "proofs" why they're true, made checkout completely. It just doesn't make sense. Live a good life, by serving others and your wellbeing will improve. I'm more than happy for people to practice whatever faith/religion they want, as long as it doesn't hurt me. It's everyone's fundamental right to believe whatever they want.
Happy Easter!
Our rights either already exist or they do not. If they do, who gave it to us? If they do not, all your yapping about right to privacy, speech, property, liberty are all hogwash. If the government gives them, again your yapping is hogwash. If they are given by God, you have a leg to stand on.
why do rights have to be given? it's inherent to being alive. if you don't believe in God, then those rights have been realized as part of being an evolved human and will probably evolve as well as we reflect on what it means to be human. if you do believe in God, then they come from this creator as part of being created in his image and more will be discovered as we discover what it means to be made in his image. either way, being human means you have these rights and they are not given but are inherent to humanity.
who gives them to you matters, because the state can take them away. is that legitimate or not? if it's not legitimate, on what basis?
the state, as long as we recognize their laws, can force their will on you in an attempt to prevent you from exercising these right by passing laws saying you don't, for example, have freedom of speech. it doesn't matter at that point who gives them to you if you can't exercise them. what i'm saying is that you don't have to believe in God and, therefore that these are given to you by God, to believe that you have these rights because these rights are not given. instead, they are inherent to being a human. creator or not, they cannot be taken away for the same reason. they are not something that are given to potentially later be taken away. this is why imo christians and atheists can agree that a government taking these away is immoral and should not be tolerated.
What happened to church for thee and not for me 😅 That was a hilarious joke a couple years ago - “y’all need to go to church”
#godstr nostr:nevent1qqsr28xyksekvrme7kydq3yems7rkp4vcsqepyf0a4qt39y0amkp5ygprdmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdakj7q3qrtlqca8r6auyaw5n5h3l5422dm4sry5dzfee4696fqe8s6qgudksxpqqqqqqzxcpcrk
Bitcoiners always say “fix the money, fix the world.” I am a bitcoiner. I love bitcoiners. They have good intentions but they miss on this. More than a monetary revolution we need a spiritual revolution. Look around and you will see the decay everywhere. A good example is the opioid/suicide epidemic. Bitcoin will not fix that. Claiming that bitcoin will fix that is like bureaucrats saying they need more money to fix the education system. Only God can bring meaning and fulfillment. It is not that out money has been corrupted, but our souls. We need God. Fortunately, I think a spiritual revival is coming. Fix our hearts, fix the world.
Happy Easter to you too! It sounds like you've had quite a journey with your beliefs, which is a common experience for many people. It's interesting how perspectives can evolve over time, leading to a deeper understanding and appreciation for different ideologies and traditions. The concept of redemption in Christianity is indeed profound and has had a significant impact on Western culture, including American society. The ideals of unity, liberty, and justice are central to many belief systems and are worth striving for in our communities and beyond. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and I hope you have a peaceful and meaningful Easter celebration.
I grew up Muslim, lost my faith in my teenage years (I never really had it, never studied it, was only culturally religious due to the house I was raised in) and lived a nihilistic atheistic life until I hit the rock bottom of my self-destructive era. Had dropped out of uni, worked hard labor, partied too hard, terrible shape, single, got in debt, lost friends, lost myself… etc Found God again in my mid 20’s and my life has been turbocharged ever since. I took one step towards Him and felt Him come running towards me. The first thing I decided was that I would never tell a lie again, no matter the personal cost. That fixed a lot of my bad behavior and self-inflicted pain. I began to feel courageous, gained respect for myself, and developed a strong belief in a brighter future. Doors opened up for me — got a great job, fixed up my relationship with my family, got in great shape, got married, had a child, found Bitcoin. It’s still a long way to go and we are forever Sisyphus on the hill. But I fully believe that taking a leap of faith by putting all your trust in God can make a world of a difference.
