Oddbean

It’s a corollary to the existence of right and wrong. You’d be rather uncommon if you’ve never done anything wrong. The first axiom here is the existence of right and wrong. This isn’t something one can prove. You either agree that right and wrong exist or you don’t. The difference between science and religion isn’t “science uses logic and religion doesn’t.” Science requires something that can be measured whereas religion requires belief in something that can not be measured. But both require logic. And both have axioms. But only science compels belief through repeatable measurement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corollary

The second axiom is the penalty for sin is death. This assumes there is someone to whom the penalty is owed. This someone presumably abhors sin… Does God exist? You’ll never prove it. You either agree or disagree. Is God good? Again, you either believe yes or no. But if he is good, what could he have to do with sin?

The third axiom is that the penalty for sin is death. You either believe God made this rule or you don’t. There will always be two ways to interpret an axiom: either it’s a self serving lie that uses debt to enslave people to some unspecified end or it’s the way God made the universe. You must choose your belief carefully. Logically. While Christianity fits together as a logical puzzle perfectly under these three axioms, you can interpret the same set of facts and arrive at the logical conclusion that Christianity is some great scam or trick with equal logic if you choose a different set of axioms.

Circling back to your question on definition, sin is “an offense against God as well as a fault against reason, truth, and right conscience. Sin is a deliberate thought, word, deed, or omission contrary to the eternal law of God”. Essentially, anything that turns one away from God. Yet we don’t need divine revelation to have a sense of what sin is. God created humanity to be able to naturally discern good and evil through use of reason and right conscience. However, we can and do often err so divine revelation by His grace helps us get closer to living a good, loving life than we would be able to otherwise. Definitions are incredibly important. I encourage you to ask yourself what the definitions of “good”, “evil”, “truth”,“happiness”, “love”, and “freedom”. At least for me, the more I dug the more I realized the beauty of faith and Church teaching.

I feel like it's obvious what is good versus what is evil. Thanks for the answer. What turned me off about the message of a priest saying 'You are all sinners' is the attempt to shame people. That type of shaming just turns me off. But Dr MS makes a good case on the explanation of sins and sinning. You as well.

If good vs evil is always so obvious, why is there such a big disagreement on so many controversial issues? You and I know there’s evil everywhere but will we agree on what is and isn’t evil or will our definitions differ? Does evil exist substantially? If so, who created the evil if God is supposedly all good? St. Augustine answers this by pointing out that evil is the absence of good just as cold is the absence of heat. Then we’re back to square one, what does “good” mean? I don’t know you but I know you are a sinner (as long as you’re not some AI bot) because you share the same human nature I do. And our human nature was separated from God when Adam committed the first sin, which St. Augustine coins Original Sin. This now sinful nature is apparent as early as infancy when we see babies steal, be selfish, yell with anger, cry, strike others, etc. We do all of that even as adults. Original sin has more profound implications that I suggest you look into what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about it. To deny such a reality is to believe the heresy of Pelagianism which St. Augustine ardently battled. We need a redeemer to pay the wages of our sin. That redeemer must be spotless or else He has no redeeming ability. And so the lamb of God came in the flesh ~2000 years ago and died on the cross for you specifically. It’s true that people should not self flagellate themselves because to despair is to deny God His mercy and love for us which is a sin. But I urge you to humbly discern, is it your pride preventing you from recognizing truth? What is shameful about a full grown adult saying they’re taller than a newborn? Nothing because it’s reality. If you are actually a sinner (you are) then do not let your pride prevent you from going to the hospital for sinners, the Church. You will fall again and again since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But we are not God. Do adults ever get angry at a toddler for trying to walk and falling? No, we love seeing a baby go from sitting, to crawling, to walking, etc. Where we hurt as parents is when our toddler pushes us away. So, too, God’s saving grace is helping you even now as He keeps you in existence. Turn to Him and use the free will He gave you to become the saint in heaven He wants you to be.

There’s no end to man’s desire to use religion to manipulate others for wealth and power. But this is sin, not religion. Jesus himself “though divine he didn’t consider equality with God something to be grasped, but instead humbled himself and was obedient to death, even death on a cross.” (Paraphrased phillipians ch2 near the beginning).

Your soul is my target. I encourage you to keep seeking. Look everywhere. I believe there is only one place you will end up if you logically search until you are satisfied. Feel free to ping me with questions. There will be many that demand an answer.