Can any of the goals of these commerce ideas be rough-prototyped before the nips are agreed/implemented? 

 meaning you don’t like bitcoin experiments? other than that i don’t see much monetization floating around here 

 Huh? Why? That’s the only reason I got curious to check this out. 

 🪄 

 open source magic wands 

 how would you describe the importance to a n00b? 

 oh, that sounds useful. would that data fit into a an existing kind/list @JeffG 

 i suspect more diversity of content types that appeal to different consumers, more unique experiences that only work in an open protocol like this… stuff like that. today i like the nostr protocol/architecture, but the content is very narrow to satisfy my broader interests.

then stuff like user retention and growth would follow and the flywheel would compound 

 Ok Karnage what do you want us to start doing? For instance I can design interactive e-newsletters in PDF, I can design layouts or 3D models, I already publish my space exploration research articles on #nostr. I would love to contribute and earn Bitcoin, but I'm very limited in terms of services or apps because of my location and government restrictions on access to online VISA payments. 

 I think part of this is due to no client really building out a proper community topical conversation system. Hashtags are nice but they don’t provide the same level of engagement as a sub community system like Reddit. If there was a way to integrate that into existing clients I feel it would help boost visibility of those extra topics that aren’t Bitcoin or Nostr related. 

 Precisely, for instance Discord runs in app events were you can earn rewards, badges or sats, Slice allows you to answer surveys, vote on various topics, questionnaires and also earn sats, Sats4Likes allows you to like, re-post, comment on Posts and earn sats. Bitcoin Magazine and Simple Bitcoin allow you to read news and earn sats. So i think many strategies could be implemented in which users would interact with this app and earn rewards for doing things unrelated to #Bitcoin or #Nostr. 

 I personally appreciate reward systems like this but simultaneously think if it’s forced it may drive away those who aren’t interested in Bitcoin. Optional but not necessary is best. At the end of the day I believe what will drive more traffic to the protocol is a widening of the lense to include, as Karnage mentioned, more content diversity, but the key is creating easy methods to find said content, which at the moment imo 99% of Nostr clients fails at doing. 

 same as my answer.
nostr:note1xsgughyq7zakkn5qphg75etrlht26ny0lv0agpmfp7uptdaqeheq6s9860 

 in addition to technical ideas do you have areas of content you’d like to see here or do you suspect that takes care of itself over time? 

 I suspect what happens over time is this, over and over:

1. A developer on some non-nostr system finds nostr and recognizes it for what it is
2. They move their system to (or bridge into) nostr
3. Their userbase is now added to nostr, so nostr suddenly gets a lot more users

Sure users will come over seeking certain kinds of content, but I don't expect that is the main way that nostr will grow.  It will grow through acquisitions.
 

 to be fair internet search engines are getting so bad that nostr doesn't really seem out of place 

 It’ll all get messier with LLMs

Soon we’ll need to just search across signed messages, filtered by webs-of-people-we-trust 

 @brugeman what’s the state of search both within your projects and across the ecosystem? We haven’t caught up on this in a while 

 Damus doesn't have search integrated, which makes a third of Nostr users think it's completely broken. Amethyst has our relay for search by default, last time I checked it worked pretty well. Primal has their own search. There is search by nostr.wine relay and also relay.noswhere.com. I recently saw a rust-based relay with full-text search.

Search infrastructure is available to any app, not all of them care enough - lack of real demand, most likely. 

 Freerse has been using Nostr.band's relay search, which is very useful. This is the first one on Nostr that supports text search. 🫂💜

Thank you for sharing several other relays that support search. Is "rust-based relay" a relay address? Do you have a complete address? I will test it. 

 You are welcome. Rust based is the relay software https://github.com/rnostr/rnostr 

 Thanks for your sharing 🤙 

  brugemanDoes nostr.band have plans to support searching for long articles? I find that the current search lacks long article data. 

 Thanks for bringing this up, long-form search should work, but it doesn't, I will look into that. 

 Great, looking forward to your support for long article search. 

 Turns out the relay was working fine (it supports long posts and many other kinds for a long time), it's just the nostr.band UI was broken. Fixed it. 

 Great，I just tested nostr.band and it can indeed search for long articles. Freerse still can't search, maybe it doesn't include this event. I need to check it out. 

 Which apps do you use for search? 

 Just searching inside Amethyst. Trying to find old convos or messages seems to be a total waste of time. Trying to find a specific account, even when I follow them doesn't work well. Trying to tag people I follow in notes rarely works. I generally have to go to my messages, find the last interaction, go to their profile, copy npub & then paste it into the message to get tags to work. 

 Tagging people isn't really search in most apps, maybe @Vitor Pamplona could comment.

Search for old conversations is hard, unless you remember some very specific words being used - your searching is anonymous, we don't personalize it in any way to prioritise content closer to you. A filter by author could help, but the app would need new UI for that.  

 nostr dot band may help with searching. I haven't used it yet, but know about it as a way to search nostr

https://nostr.band/ 

 I made this app to make this easier to dig up old notes https://advancednostrsearch.vercel.app. I use it all the time. 

 Lol, already had it bookmarked, must have just forgotten about it. Thanks 

 Coracle also has similar search functionality. Coracle actually has more options to narrow down your search. I usually just use my search though since it's simpler and usually gets the job done for me. 

 Our search quality is entirely dependent on which relays are active for search in your relay list. Only nostr.band, relay.noswhere.com and nostr.wine support search. :(

One day we will have search on Citrine and then you can have a local search to use :)  

 noogle.lol works sometimes for searching 

 Like referrals? 

 Yea  

 btw- I didn’t mean to add this to nostr clients (they already know how to handle note ids). I’m magic wanding the ability to easily share notes via non-nostr clients. 

 Address you using Amethyst? It defaults to this for sharing: https://njump.me/nevent1qqs9tgfut2fteguv34pk06eruay7tk4z3lyzgk270xhxz87sragqk0cpzemhxue69uhkzarvv9ejumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgq3qe2wl43nfgraz603hd0xx0f89lveyjxz7xawctyst0p65fmh65j4sxpqqqqqqzl7warv 

 That doesn’t let me generically share a note via text message, twitter, facebook, email, etc by just pasting in a note id.

What I’m suggesting is work be done to get “nostr://“ generally recognized as a protocol in a uri such that the OS then seeks a handler for it. Just like it does for http, wss, and ftp. The handler might be amethyst, or damus, primal. When I send someone a url to a website, I have no idea what web client they’ll use to view it. 

 Hmm... I’m not sure I get what you have in mind. You want to write messages that would get published later when you connect? 

 No, that already happens on Amethyst at least. I would like #nostr to work offline when my data (MB) runs out.  But I know this is beyond #nostr, I can't believe though that we're still paying to access the internet in 2024.  

 Welcome btw!!  

 Yeah, part of the decentralized part is that no one is really responsible to be “the welcome wagon”. Some apps like Primal do a nice job of recommending active accounts to follow. Have you tried that? 

 Lolz Yeah nobody was the welcome wagon in Twitter either but someone Pua aka BitcoinWife got the job done until retiring in 2014.  The space was never the same.

Decentralized is not the be all, end all for every situation.  A question was proposed regarding utility and suggestions.  If Nostr wants to gate keep like a Maxi Hodler, then change nothing.  But if it is to be a competitor with X, a welcome wagon like wiki how to would be helpful.  If I could, I would.  

1.  Nobody expects to not be able to delete a        reply.
2.  #tags don't seem to be a thing so how can I search by topical word?
3.  What is a zap and how do I give/get one?
4.  Why are some accounts "verified"? and how/ why are accounts able to use the same nom but not be considered imposters?
5.  How do I search for people?

The above are all Q's any reasonable Twitter convert would have.    It seems easy enough to have something apps can add.  I ended up signing up when a friend grabbed my hand, sent me a Primal link and walked me through the door.  I had turned down those who suggested it to me the last 3 years similarly to how some try to on board people into bitcoin which is why thousands of wallets have btc in them but will never be recovered as the education was shallow.   

 Oh yeah, I wish specific note subscriptions were more broadly implemented/accessible. Maybe there’s already a NIP? 

 https://github.com/vitorpamplona/amethyst/issues/850 

 What do you have in mind for how this contributes to nostr? Not opposed to the idea, just want to hear more about where it leads 

 @Dawn some input for your project? 

 lol I should definitely include that 

 share your project here, Dawn? 

 I'm just writing up a user guide for amethyst. I need to get it online yet & my attention is a bit scattered but it should be sharable within the next few weeks.  

 Agreed. It’ll take time. But we can also be proactive about taking steps to accelerate its success. 

 Ha... we’re almost there 😉 

 Slowly, then suddenly.

I don’t cheer the death of the internet, but I worry it’s coming. With all the fast/cheap/free content generation by LLMs I think within the next 10 years it’s going to be tough to believe anything you read in public (unless it’s a cryptographically signed message by someone who you’ve already decided to trust 😉) 

 inoculate yourself with the patterns of bots 

 You working in this? 

 I am not. This would be an infrastructure heavy project requiring a small dedicated team to do it right. It’s not an application, it’s a data pipeline and a massive index, which if you invested in you would need to monetize to sustain. 

 Seems like a lot of good clients on both platforms. Is there a specific app you want for a specific platform that seems missing/delayed? 

 Doesn't matter which app. Just thought it'd be cool to have your phone with a nostr client pre-installed by default. Like Samsung does with LinkedIn and Facebook.

Or during the initialization process (like ubuntu) the user can choose some apps to install. 

 Ha, that’d be fun. But to attract big-audience creators we would need a value proposition that serves them. The current systems aren’t really failing them? 

 Yup, I want this! Though haven’t really seen a very nostr-native way to do it yet.

Also, the recommendations/referrals are a big reason that creators publish to YouTube. It helps grow their audience quickly if they have keywords/people that are already known. 

 Agreed. I think we need more algorithms and more choice about which algorithms to use. Algorithms are not the dirty word that some people assume. Transparent algorithms can be a huge benefit to helping UX. Closed/controlled algorithms that serve corporate network interests are the problem. 

 🎯 yep, couldnt agree more. Well constructed algos are huge for UX 

 I think so. But I think a lot more could be done to accelerate its success. I think everyone who shares publicly on the internet should be using nostr to do so. We’re still very far from that future. 

 Seems like Substack is winning a lot of hearts and minds here. What would you tell a journalist who is evaluating going all-in on Substack versus Nostr? 

 The good thing about nostr:

1.
Creators (like me) just need a profile on nostr with a lightning wallet!

2.
There is already

Onlysxy.com
or
npub1f5fk9nup6m34709wtpzx55xk60y379v50ffja09jdz2ga3akcpuqzdf0yz 

 Oh cool… so this is like onlyfans, but operated on nostr/bitcoin? Makes a ton of sense to me. Have you use OF and OS? What are the main differences in your experience? 

 This is just OF with extra steps. Give the user the possibility to login through npub and then we can talk 

 Right! But why would people create content here and not on the other social media they are already in? 

 Agreed 

 Most content creators want to be where they can achieve the greatest reach. Today that’s not nostr. So maybe it’s a bit of a chicken-egg thing.

I’ve been wondering if it would be interesting to have some sort of nostr-exclusive content. Not sure exactly what that is yet, but I’d love to brainstorm more about it.

But I think the first creators would be here more for ideological reasons or because they are disempowered by existing platforms. If you’re succeeding on X/YouTube why bother switching? Maybe we need to nurture an emerging class of creators who can win here. 

 What is the hurry for growth. So what if we top out at a cpl million happy regulars with great tools? whats wrong with that. I mostly like nostr for what's not here and all seem in a hurry to bring it all here.

Sigh.

Culture here is not good for traditional content creators. That's ok with me since most content most places is blah. Mostly midwits masticating and stealing each others ideas while fighting for clout.

I am not mad that they are not here yet.

my 2c 

 This. We do not need new niche features. Better concentrate on making the existing ones smooth and normie accessable. Focus on the onboarding of the masses. 

 Agreed. Always fun to see new features, but I suspect there’s something in making it more accessible and helping people see the magic/“why” more easily. 

 I bet if we organically discover a good way to “market” through organic experiments if any of them required more funding to scale they could probably attract funding

So what are the best marketing ideas to try? I’ve been pushing on some attempts at this with YouTube videos I’ve made, but I’ve barely scratched the surface on what’s possible. I’ve been trying to think of ways to make a bigger impact here so I’d love to hear your ideas. 

 My last reply didn’t post for some reason so I’ve had another go 🚀😊

App store optimization 

Paid social media marketing 

Influencer marketing

Use review websites and blogs

Engage with communities

Partnerships and cross-promotions 

Launch events 

Press releases 

Merchandise 

Sponsoring high profile sports team 

 Yeah, I think nostr offers a place for a lot of non-payment information to be published that could be useful for innovating on payments technologies. More privacy, more scalability, different trust tradeoffs.

e.g. the metadata to help people eval which ecash mints they want to use could be published to nostr 

 probably out there somewhere ;) 

 Oh, that’s a great one.

In the same line of thinking, I thought it would be fun to have a multiple choice quiz game that we could all play together. Not with a super serious goal like earning a license, rather just for fun. But probably easy to organize 

 this is a good use of a magic wand 🪄🤓 

 I don’t think of Nostr as a privacy tool. I consider it more a censorship resistant speech tool. So I can say what I want and be pretty sure anyone could read it, but I don’t think it does a great job at helping me hide who I am… unless I create some sort of nym/anon account? 

 What kind of education are you trying to bring over? 

 For 2)
There are communitys and ists where you can find people of the same interest.

Just check
https://www.nostrapps.com
and click on "Communitys"

or

https://www.nostrapps.com/apps/listr 

 Yes on #1 and #3 

 Any type of content (topic/format) outside of bitcoin that you’re most excited to see here? I think this could be a major impact. Especially if it were particularly interesting an exclusive to nostr. Could draw more people in. Come for the content, stay for the freedom? 

 On my other social media I'm eganged with communities like Swifties, Booktok, feminism, animal rights, local Texas groups, pop culture... mainstream stuff, largely. 

Ideally as the platfrom grows we'll have more and more users interested in a variety of topics. but, as it is, Nostr can't replace my mainstream social media diet bc these are not communities here posting on these topics (to any meanful degree). 

That being said, I think at first it makes sense for us to target disenfranchised subgroups of larger more mainstream communities. This is how the Fediverse found so much success. I think @Ditto will be great bc it's specifically built around this concept.

Sadly I think most social media users do not care about freedom until the lack of it effects them personally. User retention will be primarily about content and experience rather than freedom. Although I certainly hope we can onboard new users to a more freedom-focused mindset.

Id love to hear from others what communities they think would make good targets for moving to Nostr!  

 what if you had a widget that would let you see what the other platforms are saying about a topic and send you a note of the digest? then you miss nothing and dont have to go over there or at least can migrate some of the convo here? just a random thought. I am bad fit for answering this prob since I just dont care what they are on about out there in the sinking ship. so take my thought with a grain of salt
 

 That's a cool idea! I'm not sure it would scratch the same itch, but it definitely wouldn't hurt! 

 I’d love to see more content diversity like you point out here! 💪 

 I’ve never heard of a “Barney breakdown”… is it like a beginner’s guide? I’m guessing reference to the big purple t-rex? 

 Ooo.. how would that work? Is the goal to enable games or other apps to be somehow more natively linked? 

 Basically you would use your nsec to login to the game, when you message other users, it would be over nostr. You could use nostr badges like NFTs, your friends list would just be a collection of npubs 😆. You basically have a nostr client running inside your game lol. I know it's technically possible.  

 subtle censoring is the worst. harder to call out, but still shapes behavior (and ultimately thought) 

 agreed, getting more people running relays would contribute to the network’s resilience/strength 

 Often valuable things are really hard so it’s good to be ready to work hard.

But sometimes very valuable things emerge from novel combinations that end up turning into gushers 

 I was just asking about video hosting. I know there are a bunch of people running media servers, but I think it’s still challenging to get media served in such a censorship resistant way as relays do with simple text messages 

 Yeah, I agree that discussing the importance of free speech outside of nostr can be good for helping attract people who are curious about these topics to know about nostr.

I think my account on X is nerfed from talking about nostr too much there. 😝

email/blogs/substack/YouTube might be other non-nerfed ways to discuss more 

 I’ve been thinking about this. I suspect some sort of high quality nostr-exclusive content could be helpful. i.e. if you want to see thing X, you’ve gotta be on Nostr to see it.

What might be the best type of content for this? I’m interested in your ideas on categories/topics (gardening, piano, comedy, etc.) and/or format (podcast/video/livestream) 

 bitcoins philosophies help build nostr. The comments are also compensated in bitcoin.  It would be like disowning the core belief. Although their are other relays that talk about other topics  

 I have no problem with Bitcoin conversations on here. I would just like more of a variety of topics. That’s why I keep my Twitter account. I’ve tried to get more conversations going on here about topics I enjoy (I.e. sports, architecture, religion/philosophy) and they usually fizzle out. 

 yes I get what you mean. for me these conversations naturally develop from bitcoin. Because in my warped world view, all roads lead back to Bitcoin. 

Also, sorry for hijacking your comment with the very thing you wish to allude 

 Do you have your own “magic wand” dreams, Vanessa? 

 Hmm good question David! We have lots of plans so I’m not sure how to pick just one. I think the ppl here are so good. Builders, creative ppl, etc. I think we’ll make it work 💜 

 So good 💜 💜 

 But do you have one, yours alone? I am curious about what you are passionate about.  

 I mean personally I want nostr to be the place I can be myself, post photos of my son for my mom @rosie and family to enjoy and also to meet incredible ppl. It’s already exceeded my expectations in all of those ways so now I’m excited about new things. Probably most importantly helping ppl who don’t have a voice elsewhere. 

 very beautiful.  

 there's an important primitive missing if you want to build any data source into nostr. 
how to stop sybil attacks? how to know who is lying and who has an army of voters to mess with a result?

hopefully we'll have a solution soon. 

 i would love nostr to be a unified hub of everything i want to read 

 It likely can be now with some kind of RSS bridge to nostr. 

The Logic: 

Have a program that follows all the RSS feeds of the people you'd like to see, read or hear from 

That program converts the RSS feed items to nostr posts that include the RSS data and publishes them to a relay you self host or are connected to

You have a client that looks for those posts and displays them in an ordered way using the nostr-fied RSS data. 

Likely there are already people doing something similar. I am fairly new to nostr, so haven't seen it yet.  

 what do you think would be the most useful features to attract different audiences? 

 it's a "how long is a piece of string" kind of answer I think. but specifically:

I'm working on an approach (nothing public yet) at managing feeds (rss, podcasts, etc), where lists are composable between users. for instance, I follow you, and suppose you had a collection of startup/finance blogs, I'd be interested in transitively folding those into my list of feeds. then, similar to gpodder, feed it out as an opml to synchronize my various places that I consume content. this takes something an early majoritarian already is familiar with, rss feeds, and extends the utility in a way that, at least to me, is compelling.