Oddbean new post about login | logout question that came up due to a situation with a friend: as a dude, let’s say your female partner/wife has a male friend that constantly does things like pick her up from the airport without telling you and fixes things in your house without asking, tries to discipline your kid when you’re not around. Is this disrespectful to the dude? I say obviously yes, she does not agree ?? I feel like i am taking crazy pills.
100% obvious that you're right and that she is cuckolding your friend.
BTW, one thing is trying to fuck my wife, another thing trying to supplant me as a father "unofficially". That's casus belli and would probably lead to great violence. Just saying.
The caveat is that hes gay, but it still is in the disrespectful camp for me
Gay or not, you don’t discipline other people’s kids
I guess that depends on what you call discipline. If it’s a one off comment when the kid does something terrible, that’s probably fine. But if it’s lecturing about something or more physical, then def not ok. Give a ride is probably fine. Fixing things up - nah. Why? Let the guy handle it or pay someone.
Very disrespectful with 99.999% chance the helpful friend has ulterior motives.
Does him being gay change anything?
Yeah kind of. But he’d have to be Rip Taylor level gay to make sure there was no chance. And disciplining the other person’s kids is still disrespectful.
Only after a thorough check 🤣
makes it even more likely he's pronging her if you ask me every gay i ever met (and i was friends with some too) had a propensity for faking appearances and little lies all day long it's a personality disorder, the most mild one on the spectrum to Ted Bundy and Bill Gates
Giving him the benefit of doubt, he's LARPing as a suburban dad, a role he's unlikely to gain himself. That's still very disrespectful to the father of the family. And I'm not giving her any free pass for him being gay. Very few women take a man's professed sexual preferences seriously, they typically want to believe that any man would "turn" just for them.
it makes it worst in my humble experience life is also all appearances like it or not; even for the ignorant minds if you like, so for even those are there in the world nonetheless have it the most ignorant view: the looks puts in dare the definition of manliness (if you like) and the definition of what the feminine may be attracted to. yes both takes are nonsense as they fail to tackle fundamentals rules of individualism that are out of hand right now (but read Merleau-Ponty about love at his work in perception), however these ideas (questions or doubts) arises no matter what, it takes to bit your lip and cope and deal and convince yourself of whatever you like orthodoxy precisely helps bound alike situations, but then again the heat to discuss all of this can arise beyond the legible and the cool heads...
Fully disrespectful… And one day, that will go under a consensual sex case!
absolutely, fuck that. doubly so if you and the dude aren't friends.
These weird situations make my blood boil. 100% he has ulterior motives and the girl is either clueless or complicit.
100% His ulterior motive as a gay man is likely trying out the social role of a suburban dad. A bit cringe, and certainly disrespectful. Her ulterior motive is either industrial-strength narcissism and favour-taking; or she has designs on him. There's no "clueless" for something that's not a one-off...
I told my son’s friend once that if he kept only eating processed crap food, he's gonna be the size of a house. He got a bit water-eyed and said I called him ‘future fat’. Same friend I told him the other day to ‘tie his shoes’, he said ‘no I'm good’…. I said, ‘if you fall on your face its not my fault’. Could I have been mistakenly disciplining him? Sometimes other kids can be annoying and you snap a bit?
Like someone else said “coaching” where you offer guidance and explain likely consequence of their actions in a fairly passive way but still allow them to do something stupid if they’re really insistent is usually fine. To me “discipline” typically means actually punishing for an action, which is over the line if you aren’t there parent unless there’s actual violence. Such as if a kid hit my kid I am going to physically force them apart but afterwards we are just leaving and not coming back. I’m not punishing that other kid beyond a stern verbal warning not to ever do it again.
Not cool Men are fuelled on respect Women fuelled on affection My opinion is that she not feeling the desired affection from her man and is goading through these disrespectful actions to trigger a change in him. https://youtu.be/iqLo-yLs118?si=XJHq4-Hy4XgYq_qX
Honestly that's not a friend. I would confront and him and in case just quit friendship. A friend wouldn't behave like this behind your back.
I would recommend him to tell her he felt uneasy, even sad or whatever he felt and talk about it with the honest feeling. Asking someone for hesitating something is always difficult. No silver bullets but patience and honesty are the key, I believe. Hope they find a way.
In modern Western society, this might already be considered normal 😏. It's hard to say. It all depends on where it happens.
I have a terrible feeling you're probably right. Once again I'm grateful for having a non-Western wife...
This is called Cheating on u If you’ve got a replacement husband/boyfried… read the room… she likes more than his charm And no, don’t listen to the “girls can have friends like that” how many do u know like that? ZERO!! Coz everyone that happened to gets a letter from The Greek Islands with a photo of them together on a “friends trip”
unless the kids are way out of line, leave the parenting to the parents and he should only help your wife with what she decides to do. when he has his own kids he'll understand. but yeah he should only support your wifes decisions by showing up with coffee haha
This sounds super creepy and boundaries need to be established.
Does a wife need to ask her husband for permission to get a ride from the airport, (delegate to) fix things in the house or raising the kid?
No this not. But maby it is just fair to inform the partner. Wife informs husband equally as husband informs wife about what happens with house and child.
Without a doubt. In this case, the wife has a boyfriend.
I would directly get in contact with this dude and have an open conversation that this seems very weird and he should just not do this things or inform you if he can offer help.
Every man knows this is not appropriate. Every woman I know pretends it isnt. I don't even talk to my neighbors wives unless the husband is there, to be sure there is no misunderstanding.
Thats maby also weired. But everyone in his confortzone.
Same, at least until I get to know them both well. Not worth the risk of a misunderstanding, either real or attention-seeking.
It’s the wife that’s being disrespectful.
I agree with you… if the roles were reversed, how would she feel? I know my wife would be pissed if I had a female friend picking me up from places, doing anything around our house, and especially if she disciplined any of my kids…
The difficult truth is, the disrespect is coming from the wife in this hypothetical scenario. The sexual preference and gender are much lower on the relevance scale. This hypothetical wife is directly undermining the health and structure of her own family. That is not to say there can’t be other people involved and helping. But those roles go through the father and mother first. And if a wife is undermining the father’s role in setting the boundaries of this, she is undermining her own family.
switch the roles in discussion for a moment: as a dude, let's say you have a female friend that you constantly pick up from the airport without telling your wife, and you fix things at this female friends' house without telling your wife, you go to her house and discipline her kids while your wife is not around/without telling your wife. YES, IT'S A B S O L U T E L Y DISRESPECTFUL. In fact some people, may even call it cheating
My question would be what is going on in this guys life that he feels the need to do this? Has he been ostracised by his family for some reason. Is he desperate to belong/ be an uncle or father because he’s missing out? Has he recently broken up with someone and just needs someone to need him for a time? None of this excuses his behaviour but it may provide some insight. On the whole women do not view gay men the way they view straight men. There is generally zero sexual tension and more of a brotherly aspect to things. Does the wife feel like she is helping him out by including him? What does she get from the relationship? She might just like a good chat about trashy tv that doesn’t interest their partner (and yes I know I’m stereotypying but I do so to point out that people bring in different energy and conversations). Would the guy feel differently if his wife’s friend was a woman who picked her up and spent the same kind of time with her? However, I do agree that disciplining the child (regardless of who they are) is a line crossed. I would suggest gently asking what the go is? Try to be curious rather than angry. It may help to understand the issue and they in turn may then realise how lines get blurred and overstepped. Just my two cents…
She already fucked him
Yeah It’s disrespectful to the dude 100% BUT what they are doing is likely a symptom/effect, not the true cause of their problems. It’s up to HIM to hold his frame and be the man she needs him to be, and he must communicate his boundaries clearly and promptly to her. He needs to step up and be the one to fix things (or arrange to be fixed). She needs to feel like she can rely on him. I’m of course missing a lot of the story here because we are only hearing his perspective, but I’m willing to bet that if he’s been disrespected like this it is likely because: 1) he doesn’t love/respect himself enough to command such respect from others let alone his partner, 2) he is not someone people admire or she does not think he is worthy of admiration. Her actions are the indication. Unfortunately I think many men make the mistake of thinking they deserve to be respected for whatever reason like putting a ring on someone but nope, respect and admiration are earned, not demanded from anyone.
100%. the guy isn’t treating the husband as a friend despite being close to the wife. if he did he’d at least take the time to communicate. I don’t think you can have someone involved in personal matters if they’re not communicating with one party, and the wife’s being selfish by disregarding his feelings about not being in the loop. if he feels bad about it his wife should change her behavior!
Seems like the household is out of balance and the husband should be doing most of those things.
Depends on the level of ego/insecurity of the dude. If he is constantly doubting the integrity of the relationship, doesn't trust his partner to uphold family values, and feels threatened by other males there are probably deep unresolved insecurities about his contribution to the relationship + family and the female should slow way down and communicate with the dude to make sure he doesn't spiral into an ego-driven misogynistic rage. Could be very disrespectful in this scenario and the female needs to be mindful
Doesn’t matter if he’s gay or not, He should NOT be doing this! You’re 100 % correct for your feelings on this matter.
I would say it all depend on the maturity of the individuals. Disciplining a child is a broad term, if you trust their maturity nothing wrong if someone tells your child no, yes or go away, sit down. But again if he touches your child to discipline your child I would expect a clarification on what he thinks he is doing? So maybe a sharing. This can be done in couples or with groups. Someone has the "talking stick". Each individual has lets say 5 minutes to speak on what they are feeling/ experiencing internally where the others gives them time and space to talk and they listen without reaction. You can make guidelines, like giving a reaction on what is said it left alone for while. You could meditate, have a moment of silence between turns. After the sharing is done you could split up, do your own thing, go for a walk. Let it all sink in so one can observe what the others words do to them and reflect. Maybe nothing needs to be said because things are cleared out or maybe the next day conversation happens with more understanding of the other. You could do this sharing daily, once a week, whatever. Helps to not bottle things up. I know this way of sharing helps in my relationships. One feels a freedom to share their inner happenings without judgment. Sharing whatever, even things that makes one feel anger, jealous, guilty, unheard, happy, etc, so to help expose the ego by speaking it out. We can help each other grow towards more wisdom. Good luck
Doesn’t matter if girlfriend’s/wife’s friend is gay, straight, female, male etc 1 - You don’t discipline another’s child - wrong. 2 - You don’t fix things in another’s house without asking or discussing first - disrespectful. 3 - If being picked up from the airport everyone should know beforehand - bad comms and disrespectful. 4 - This applies to both parties.
I would not feel comfortable with those examples. Guidance (not discipline) for a kid, in a coaching type of way, is probably okay in moderation. Cutting another man’s grass is a red line.
the problem is the female.
depends on the relationship. All the "respect" problems can be asked by defining if: - there is total sincerity? - the two people in the couple define (even not-formally), accept and then follow their rules? If the answers are "yes" and "yes" there are never problems. In this case, the dude see problem in this other guy presence? If there's a problem, then need to be discussed. If he see no problems, then there are no problem. Also, the world will always be full of people external to the couple that will be disrispectful. The two in the couple are the responsible of their action and to react properly to these external situations. Its very rare to have a real "external problem", in couples its always a matter of decide, define, and respect rules with the other person.
I think the main issue was the dude brought it up many times that he felt like he was being disrespected, but she didn't care because its her "bestie" and they even call each other their "nonsexual life partner". That by itself is so insanely disrespectful imo, I'm surprised the guy is still with her.
If my partner came up with this bullshit then she will no more be my partner instantly, absolutely. But there are a lot of conceptions and point of views... maybe the dude could have himself a girl as "nonsexual life partner" that play the same role? Its impossible to judge from an external perspective because only them (and maybe close friends and family) know what are their "rules" and their way to be a couple.
Hmmm…I’d say it’s a bit much. But sometimes people do things like whatever they want. Has the husband hacked into wife’s phone and sending gaslighting messages of a rando woman’s DOB etc?? Cos that might make it all but sus 🤔
Based on this limited data set, Occam's razor says... -The wife has her cake and is eating it too. The boyfriend might as well move in and make it official. I hope he at least will go to work everyday and do some dishes
Not great at all. Best case: poor social etiquette/communication and the person is just totally oblivious, imho unlikely though certainly possible. Worst case: unfortunately more likely case is there’s something shady going on. Ultimately, this is more a conversation for the two partners on boundaries, why this is happening, and feelings around it. A conversation on boundaries with the male friend should also happen but most likely isn’t the real root of the problem.
male friend? what? there’s no such thing as male friends. every male who claims to be a friend is only her friend until she gives him the opportunity not to be. It’s not insecure to recognize the reality of nature of men. That’s a bunch of BS cuck nonsense.
unless its a long time mutual family friend to both the man and woman, like an "uncle" situation, I would call this sus...
Nope. Couldn’t have ever let it get that far.
Disrespectful from both the wife and the friend. It’s ok to have male friends as a female (and vice-versa) but this behavior is not that of a friend. It should not be accepted by the husband nor the wife. If the wife insists it’s fine, imho there’s a bigger problem underneath.
I’d be honouring the way he feels - disrespected - and if she doesn’t agree I’d ask her why. Every discussion is a doorway to new information & connection. It’d be interesting to hear what she says like- for example the extra support cld really be helping her when her man is not there & she’s juggling everything. But if it just doesn’t sit right with him - I’d be wanting to discuss strategising who else can give her a hand etc. We all have Roles Responsibilities Relationships And it’s not only fair but reasonable to have boundaries and apply discernment when someone or something is crossing them. #TherapistsTip
I smell a rat
First question is, how long do the partner and her friend know each other? Is it a long time friend or some guy who just appeared? Secondly, does the wife tell your friend about these things? Or does he find out afterwards? Finally, does your friend have/take time to run errands himself and be with his child? These things matter in the situation
There is no friendship between a man and a woman if they find each other attractive and get along well. One of them is just waiting for their chance