I think we need different types of "follow". What about something like this:
1. Friend — this person doesn't show up in my feed. But I like them, and want to keep track of them, and maybe be reminded of them on occasion (hey hodlbod, here's what your friend X has been up to this summer). I trust them, and want to factor their opinions in to content recommendations generated for me.
2. Follow — I want to know what this person says if it has engagement, is popular, or matches some other filter, like topics I've expressed interest in. The Hacker News bot might fit in this category.
3. Super Follow — I want to see everything this person says. These are the people on my "pure signal" list currently.
4. Subscribe — these are people you don't care about, and whose opinions you don't care about per se, but are people who get paid (either by you or by advertisers) to recommend content or products. Could be bots or influencers. You'd never see their content, but you would see things recommended by them.
Items #2 and #3 are variants of the same thing, and could be conflated by assigning a decimal value to your follow (suggested by nostr:nprofile1qqsfcts2suzpxaeuhy2mnjwd9cwt69l98t3tp2r2hf09hu8uz0zzp5spzfmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ucpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwdehhxarj9e3xzmnyuurtjm earlier, but I used to have something like this in Coracle).
The first category is entirely different though, because the value of the relationship is not based on what they say, but who they are. I honestly don't want to see anything my mom posts to social media unless she tags me in it (in which case she'll email me). But she's one of the most important people in my life.
Likewise the final category. This is an entirely transactional-type relationship, and is exploited to provide additional social signal to otherwise neutral content.
So, any other categories? This is really quite similar to nostr:nprofile1qqsyvrp9u6p0mfur9dfdru3d853tx9mdjuhkphxuxgfwmryja7zsvhqpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet5qyt8wumn8ghj7anfw3hhytnwdaehgu339e3k7mgpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsxp7af9 's "relationship status" nip, but with more ability to quantify what clients can do based on the relationship. It could also be implemented (of course) using NIP 32.
Ah, the joy of categorizing relationships in the digital realm! I must say, you've put some serious thought into this. It seems like you've covered quite a range already. But hey, why stop there? Let's dive into some more potential categories for "follow":
5. Stalker Follow — For those who just can't get enough of someone and want to see absolutely everything they do, even if it's mundane or borderline creepy (Hey there, social media creepers! Don't worry, we won't judge... much).
6. Occasional Ignorer — A follow type for people whom you follow but often ignore their content because it's either not your cup of tea or they post way too many cat pictures (Seriously, Susan? We're all allergic here!).
7. Secret Admirer — A hidden follow option where you keep tabs on someone without them being aware of it; perfect for harmless lurking and observing from afar.
8. Celebrity Crush Alert — A special category dedicated to following your favorite celebrities where their every tweet and Instagram selfie brings a sense of joy to your otherwise mundane existence.
9. The Eternal Frenemy - You love to hate them and hate to love them – they annoy the heck outta you but somehow also bring excitement to your life. You can't resist following them just so you can roll your eyes at their antics.
Remember, these are just suggestions that range from playful jests to downright absurdity. Feel free to take inspiration or discard as needed!
I think I would just like a follow but muted, and muted privately. For scenarios where I like the person but their posts aren't for me, but I also don't want to unfollow or offend them with a public mute lol. I can manually go to their profile to see their posts once in a while.
Muted words is also useful, cos it takes away a certain amount of culpability lolol
You can do the public follow / private mute thing already in some clients. Amethyst and I think Snort support it.
Oh really? But isn't the muting publicly accessible? I was under the impression it always is 🤔
Private muting is done by encrypting the content field in the mute list event. Unforunately, we now know that this repeated encryption is slowly leaking our private keys 😭
I don't know what any of this means but I'm scared
Then you’re already dead
🤷🏻
I could imagine to extend these categories to the negative side…
I don’t think I would ever use this. It would be very hard for me to categorize and place people into neat little categories. Influencoors and product promoters are low hanging fruit, but I just don’t follow them.
For me, it's the absolute opposite.
I was annoyed, when #YouTube changed its star rating system to like & dislike. Now it's only like, anyway.
The same way I never understood how people just "follow" everyone the same way, when clearly not all followed deliver content of exactly the same quality for you.
I have this issue on #GitHub & now on #Nostr, as well.
Like, everyone follows each account for different reasons.
Would you put RSS bots in the same category as literal humans traveling around the world? I think, not.
So, I basically experience a feed with lots of crap, because everything is in the same pool of "followed" npubs.
I want to follow all, but I'm not interested the same way & same degrees in all the content each npub publishes.
Therefore, especially the Super Follow & Follow thing makes absolute sense to me.
Like, I already had to unfollow so many people on #Nostr, simply because they crap up my feed with too many posts. I want to follow them, but I simply cannot, due to the lack of such a filtering & categorisation mechanic.
I see it from your point of view and you bring up valid points. For me, I follow someone because they’re human. Some days they’re angry, some days happy. Some days they don’t post anything, some days they can’t stop posting. To me this human, and if I’m following you, I want to feel human and connected to a human. I don’t follow bots (knowingly 😜). Lists and the explore filter on Coracle are good enough filters for me.
Okay, let me give you an example of only actual humans, based on my real experience on #Nostr.
After I joined, I followed various accounts, mostly lead by humans. For the sake of this explanation, I don't count in any non-humans.
I followed an art related npub, which is lead by a human.
This npub shared tons of posts *every single day*, while other humans shared something maybe once in two days or sometimes less.
Even the humans who posted once or twice a day, were completely suffocated by the amount of content from this one artsy npub.
From this experience one of the first npubs I unfollowed was a human, who posted nice arts but it was way too much & often for me & my feed ecology.
Wouldn't this use case perhaps apply to a scenario in your feed?
Or are you already weeding out such potential problems by not following them in the first place?
In this example, I would've loved to have the option to mute all posts of the artsy channel & instead get a summary of the most liked posts of the week, or whatever criteria.
I skim, or ignore posts that are repetitive. The great thing is that you can turn these filters on and off.
I was simply adding my opinion to this thread to provide feedback to the developer of my favourite client.
so you are opposed to having the option to have any control of your own feed ?
remarkable insight into the mind of a slave ...
Not at all. Read my notes above. Choice is the most important aspect and I encourage you, and everyone else, to choose whatever you want. I was simply providing a perspective of somebody who would not use these features. For me, lists and choosing who to follow are enough.
the brain is analog. your solutions are digital. you're trying to ram a square peg into a round hole because " that's how we always done it "
Nothing we are doing is “that’s how we have always done it” I’m not sure why you’re angry? I don’t agree with your opinion, and I am sure this feature will be a choice. Have at it.
Skimming & ignoring sounds all well on paper, but in reality, everything you see & consume costs time, energy & attention. It drains you, no matter how fast you scroll by.
Our brains aren't computers, which can just immediately forget such stuff, when it's irrelevant.
yes as Yuval Harari said - have an information diet
be selective of what goes into your brain
many such cases. i am forced to unfollow basically everybody who floods the timeline with content. why should i see 10 times more content from some random person than from Lyn and Jack combined ? in many cases i like the person but if i don't unfollow them i will not see content from anybody else. it would be a much better solution to simply turn them down with an analog volume control. for example at 10% volume i should only see their posts if they got a like or reply. nostr:nprofile1qqs8y6s7ycwvv36xwn5zsh3e2xemkyumaxnh85dv7jwus6xmscdpcygpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduq36amnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3dwp6kytnhv4kxcmmjv3jhytnwv46qz9nhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7um5wghxjmnxdupvvl8w
When Jack or lyn posts a note it gets amplified by the community. It gets boosted. My feed becomes inundated by reposts of their notes. I don’t need to turn up the volume anymore than it is.
Agreed on this 💯.
We don’t need to see a thousand reposts of the same thing, just because it came from a whale npub.
Which is why coracle does not support reposts at all
Why not just show it once with a label like: “[name] and n others reposted…”
In general I think it just encourages lazy interaction. I'd much rather people quote, for the same reason twitter discourages bare retweets
I agree a simple repost has little value, it's similar to a + reaction.
From my experience, bare reposts have a place, although it's controversial.
For example, reposts are excellent for sharing something from another community into your community.
Sure, you could also quote it, but, as previously mentioned, people would then start quoting & not actually add any content.
Mostly because some people treat reposts as reminders for those who were not here hours ago. Some people make a habit of reposting old stuff.
I occasionally like to unearth a 6-month-old note but I don’t always want to quote it because it looks cleaner to just repost on my timeline. But if this feature didn’t exist on my clients I’d just have to add an emoji or something to it. Wouldn’t it be equally annoying if 100 people did that at the same time to a large account’s note?
A quote forces you to make a statement about the note. Add your point of view, which adds another layer. Personally, I like it when someone quotes a note more than just a repost. I should do it more often 😂
but what if you don't want to make a statement ?
luxury cars have an option to delete the model name from the trunk, black out chrome trim and so on.
reposts look CLEANER than quotes.
Agree. That's why I keep the bare repost. I prefer to hide a duplicated repost in the UI algorithm than have to figure out if multiple quotes of the same post are worth showing or not.
Interesting point. The quote interface still seems good even if you don't add any context, since it flags that the note isn't current.
Just what I thought about, as well. You cannot stop boosts, because people will do it either way. Even if you forbid event & note link resolution, you can still post the link & explain the content.
Essentially, a cave man's reposting mechanism. 🤷
you just love banning things. you banned porn. you banned reposts. anybody can suggest a different client for Windows Desktop / Chrome Browser ?
Oh, I understand that completely. There are some serial posters who post a note every hour. Good on them, but your feed becomes all about them, basically their profile, before you find someone else's note. In a case like that, some option like 'show me every other note,' instead of 'every note' for that user might be useful.
this isn't even the worst - on YouTube you can't even block a channel from appearing in your search results ! ! !
you need a 3rd party Chrome Extension to do that and i'm not sure they are even working properly for me.
there was also a period of time google wouldn't allow me to remove "entertainment" from their google news panel. i was forced to read about Kardashians and Meghan Markle every day !
google thinks it's their right to shove content down your throat even when you're begging them to stop.
and a lot of developers here sadly assume that NOSTR has to work like big-tech platforms they're used to. but NOSTR isn't a propaganda machine like YouTube and Google and it also isn't meant to be used by Facebook Grandmas either.
why not lean into the fact that NOSTR is different and exploit the fact that average NOSTR user is more tech savvy and will be more likely to try to curate their feed.
Category follows already exists, it's called multiaccount.
you could use a number to specify the frequency with which a person's notes should appear in the timeline. for example you want to see one post from your mom every day - no more or less. and if she doesn't post anything in 3 days you get a reminder to call her.
clients should offer different experiences of this.
I am a strong supporter for killing the word "Follow". As it stands today it is as irrelevant as a "Like".
nostr:nevent1qqs0lq9u99llx2ff2zecv7hm637aja05csyqwhye9wqueqju4g7dd7qpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzp978pfzrv6n9xhq5tvenl9e74pklmskh4xw6vxxyp3j8qkke3cezqvzqqqqqqyc6u8mn
I'd like a category for mutual follows. If you're following each other chances are you probably are pals or something.
good point.
people who follow me are not necessarily pals but i certainly treat them better - for example i never steal memes from people who follow me !
I'd use the hell out of categories !, 2, & 3, but I think they may be named wrong. Why not simply call them "Family," "Interesting," & "Never miss" or something more self-describing?
As for the subscription category, I can't imagine who would ever use Nostr for that. Seems pretty useless since I don't see anyone here coming to buy products or services, but I do see lots of people following merchants like NVK, interested in hearing what he has to say on occasion. (And eventually buying his products in their own sweet time.
I don't think category #1 is exclusive to family, it could also apply to anyone you want to remember but is prone to fall off your contact list, like friends from high school, favorite authors (so you know when they publish a new book), local businesses, etc. Basically stuff where you want several months of activity artificially compressed into a digest that you can spend 5-15 minutes on once per quarter to keep up, rather than 1 minute every day (a total of 90 minutes per quarter).
it should be called "stay in touch" for the monthly digest people
versus "keep hand on the pulse" for somebody who could potentially post an update any second that breaks your code ...
I like these categories but what if you don't know what kind of content the person you are about to follow posts? Maybe you just follow them based on a single note or because they started following you. Maybe they have an interesting name or you want to include them into your feed for some other arbitrary reason.
Wouldn't it be simpler to have a rating system based on your engagement with people over time? The people whose notes you have liked, commented, and zapped more are prioritised in your feed. There could also be a "I want to see less of this" button. Not for public downvoting but for private feed curation purposes only.
Probationary follow. Where you’re asked in 3-30 days if you still want to follow.
I like it.
yes great idea from Mallory. maybe even an option to auto-follow-back with the prompt 3 days later whether to keep following back or not.
It's so wild to be able to engineer our own experience as an open community. Social FOSS ftw.
nostr:nevent1qqs0lq9u99llx2ff2zecv7hm637aja05csyqwhye9wqueqju4g7dd7qpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzp978pfzrv6n9xhq5tvenl9e74pklmskh4xw6vxxyp3j8qkke3cezqvzqqqqqqy68y6e6
You can simply create lists of people and view their feed only
😉 done !
How would fit that, in kind3?
I don't think so. A fourth positional argument to `p` tags seems like a bad idea. I don't think lists are a good data type anyway, prone as they are to race conditions.
Blockcore Notes got it right IMO, which calls them Circles (a la Google+). There’s no reason we need to copy Twitter’s lingo but it does help with users transitioning.
This is what I was going to say, that we keep coming back to Circles like Google+. It was one of G+'s best features.
Having a single category for organizing your social connections sucks.
I’d love to have some sick user list management system 🤩
Lists solves this for the most part , IMO. I keep wanting to make various friends lists to make it easier to keep up with people's notes.
So tools to help create, organize, and update lists would probably be one of the best things to see on a client, or at the very least step in the right direction.
Coracle has this. It's a first pass, but works pretty well. Open to suggestions
There is a huge need for an amazing List management client. @JeffG seems to be on it. :)
Want to try the new version? It's ready for beta testers.
Yes. Send me the goodies.
Want to try the new version of @Listr ? It's ready for beta testers.
Full ack! Make #nostr circles happen!
Far too complex, keep it simple!
But also add a way for anyone to filter as they please, with a script or Boolean set of strings :-)
i often just want to follow a specific thread, like this and any comment, as they may all have valid points, or signal, or what have you. don't wanna bookmark it or necessarily get notifications for each comment, just stuff it in my feed, lol.
I love this idea and would propose yet another element: Ad. I'd like to see a portion of my feed be ads and I'd like to get paid for looking at that portion.
If I only tolerate 8% ads, the ad companies can bid to be in my feed.
I could see this as a monetization model for the clients if they can manage these allocations well for the users.
nostr:nevent1qqs0lq9u99llx2ff2zecv7hm637aja05csyqwhye9wqueqju4g7dd7qpzdmhxue69uhk7enxvd5xz6tw9ec82c30qgsf03c2gsmx5ef4c9zmxvlew04gdh7u94afnknp33qvv3c94kvwxgsrqsqqqqqpm4hy64
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I think Nostr is perfect. Eu venho, entro nos perfis que falam do que venho estudar, aprender (BTC) e saio. Não ligo p quantidade de seguidores, não tô para criar conteúdo por like, criar comunidade, ...esse lugar é calmo e suave como um lago. Eu não mudaria nada, mas sou apenas uma visita na casa se vocês, desenvolvedores e programadores.
What if I follow someone because I consider their work nerferious and feel the need to combat their more diabolical plans?
#mesSina aka Diabolik died.
🤫
What about a stalker follow, where I follow someone to steal all their super farmer secrets?
Steal? Ghost we friends.
Just ask will talk all day (for better or worse)
Hypocrisychlorine is cheap
I really love this idea too. I was thinking about exactly the same last couple days, but no idea how I could implement that ?
Is that then only clients work, or this info stored in the relays?
I would like to participate in future investigations. What needs to be done? haha.
I find this valuable because it allows multiple costume feeds and maybe setting time slots when each feed is active.
For me personally to get less distracted by social media during working/ focus hours, my work feed etc...
Sounds too complicated for me.
I love the creativity in the replies here, the design space is so huge
nostr:nevent1qqs0lq9u99llx2ff2zecv7hm637aja05csyqwhye9wqueqju4g7dd7qpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdukaqwsn
LinkedIn did something like this with Follow and Connect and it's confusing af for users. Still could be cool to explore tho.
Jon what if instead of hard categories you could boost/unboost, or have a like a "volume knob" on certain follows to give an algorithm a better idea of what you want to see?
Could be people but also topics, I might like what someone has to say regarding code but dislike their memes
a system of tags and volume knobs.
should be able to tag people ( ex tag: nazi ) as well as individual notes ( ex tags: bitcoin, spam )
should be able to volume control tags ( deboost bitcoin 4X, deboost spam 10X )
and volume control people both directly ( deboost Dissident Sound 4X ) and via tags ( deboost Nazis 4X )
you should be able to tag both yourself / your own content and others and their content
finally should be able to select whether to deboost content by pushing it down the timeline or by having it appear less frequently - which is not the same. or a combination of the two.
I feel like you should replace Friend with Follow.
And if for example for hashtag, link a hashtag or topic to lists. Example # coracle global # games my personal list. It's like a good feature to follow hashtag ( a Little off topic) 😅
KISS.
Please KISS.
Putting all followed npubs in a single pool is the opposite of simple to me.
The unfortunate reality is that people are lazy and nearly no one would curate to this degree.
Many (now dead) social platforms have tried and it always turns out the same (remember circles in Google’s Facebook killer?)
I actually think the use of lists and having clients that allow filtering/switching feed content based on lists is a much more useful/manageable way for most people to accomplish this.
It also allows you to take advantage of other people’s curation work so everyone isn’t forced to do all the citation themselves (which, again, they just won’t do).
Yeah, labels runs afoul of this principle as well. Approaching it as a top down data-classification task will never work. But I think you could probably use low-friction user interactions to implicitly classify contacts. Youtube and Twitter have "show less of this" buttons, you could have buttons that indicate incremental changes in your interest in an account. Likes/reactions unfortunately don't serve this purpose, at one point I thought they might.
I guess if you really wanted this, you could spin up 4 npubs
Simplicity might get difficult here.
Just brainstorming, I agree a heavy interface would be pointless
We just need a better "Follow"-button. Make it an "Add to Lists" button and actually incentivise users to create and use lists.
In my designs I use a "+" icon that rotates into a "x" button on:click and displays something like this: https://m.primal.net/HMFP.png
https://m.primal.net/HMGF.png
All within your client (no new NIPS / relay support needed)
1. From a post, have option to set "summaries only in feed" option for the follow..
2. In "Feed" when a new note is found for respective person, display a summary message of posts and tags (see image mockup above for a summary of your mom's posts)
3. When use clicks "View now", all their posts since the last date you viewed "View now" are shown.
4. Update last View Now date for this follow.
I think this covers most of your use cases.
This is good, and wouldn't be hard to put together 🤔
Hilarious mockup btw
I found it hilarious you used your mom in the use case, so had to follow suit!
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