Oddbean new post about login | logout Saying girls shouldn't use Nostr is like saying they shouldn't send e-mail, plug into electrical sockets, or ride public transportation.
Well nobody should plug directly into electrical sockets, but other than that you’re entirely right. https://media.tenor.com/kUUJWsun8mQAAAAM/electrician-electric-shock.gif
people say that?
My feed is full of npubs complaining that women shouldn't use Nostr unless they are anon, and probably not even then because you have to like seeing gruesome or pornographic images, and receiving threats and stuff in your feed and your mentions, and women don't like that. As if most men like that 🙄, but whatever.
They search for women on nostr, in this case 😁
Yeah, but my male followers mute them, too. They want to talk to me without having to wade past gruesome or pornographic images and crazy rants. Trust me, lots of men will be using the same filters. They are also not here for dickpics and rape threats.
Anyone who thinks what you've outlined is an insane person who has never met a woman in real life. Or another guy for that matter. Perpetual internet losers.
We actually have trouble getting men to use Nostr because they can get hit with so much garbage during onboarding. They're totally grossed out. @ManiMe is right that we need sane-person-friendly onboarding options.
clients need to have a way to funnel people into a safe space by electing to during their setup to utilize a WoT based on a suggested follow list, or a collective filter ( this person has been flagged for shitty thing 5 times so is filtered out of safe mode), then users can peel away the protection ( and ofcourse go wild west from the get go). thats, Moro's thoughts...
It's like with Google image search. The crawlers go over the whole Internet, suppress obvious kiddie porn and other horrendous stuff, and then add safe-search options for people who want to search for "Europe through the back door" and get Rick Steve's travel guide as the first result.
Creepiest thing I've read all day. Ma'am, its not actually 2001 any more, and Google does waaay more than that for you. Ask anyone in SEO. Many tentacles on the scale, some political some financial.
Google does more, but we can do the same basic thing. That image search is popular because it delivers a valuable service and does it well enough that people keep coming back. We can deliver the same service, without all the backround-voodoo stuff. Which would make our service more valuable. Nobody wants an unfiltered image search. They don't. Even if they think they do. Nobody wants an unfiltered feed. They don't. Even if they think they do. They have no idea what all is out there. Manmade horrors beyond comprehension.
Truth. Still a very creepy analogy to see while writing code for a filter!
Always learn from the market leader and then build something even better. If you recoil in horror at their products, you can't do effective market research. Google image search is world-class and that's why I use it, even though it sorta creeps me out. It is, what it is.
Its the prospect of my FOSS contribution building another such that is creepy. Otherwise, yes, quite.
NGL, I would have bounced out of boredom, for sure. A list of community options during installation is a good idea though. Various filters, and maybe various categories of relay as the ecosystem matures.
I distictly did not have that problem but I may have simply been fortunate there. I also had the patience to curate away the garbage that I'm so used to seeing in "regular social media." Either way, I see the problem that needs to be solved for sure.
A lot depends upon the client and relays that you start off with.
That makes sense. Amethyst and the defaults back from when I signed on. Don't really know what they were.
Amethyst has group-mutes, now, and they've changed up the relays. I started out surfing global on lol, with no group mutes. https://media1.tenor.com/m/sw0YIiS6ggYAAAAC/my-eyes-oh-my.gif
How did you get so much shit and idiots onto your feed? It bothers me that the women on nostr get so much shit from idiots who probably don't even know what a private key is. Just smash that mute button and perhaps setup some lists with "normal" people. And if you need someone smacked, tag me.
I think some of it is actually trollbots responding to keywords or replying to active threads. Roya's threads were crawling with them, from the relays she used. Someone from that hijacked bridge account saw me when I was interacting with Alex Gleason and was like 🤩 and that went on for weeks. Some of it is simply random, where they select a woman from the trendlist and just drop something bizarre or inappropriate in the replies to gross everyone out, like with Franny's funny cactus thread where some dude just had to share his penis with everyone. Some of it is npubs who think I'm too influential and outspoken, especially about technical topics, and are trying to intimidate me into silence. And the racists, of course. Lots and lots of them. That's a problem the white women on here don't have, but Nostr is just like IRL and life isn't fair.
Oh, one more thing. I'd try to have a normal conversation in my own thread with @𝓞𝓷𝔂𝔁.𝓥𝓲𝔁𝓮𝓷 and guys would come up and start ranting. At her, at me, at me for talking to her. Like, she can't even just talk about gardening or recipes, or something, without the Sittenpolizei showing up and losing their shit. Ridiculous.
🙏🫂💜
Some of the npubs harrassing Roya were also just really racist. Everyone pretends like that's not a thing on here, but they'd show up in her thread and be like "You are a filthy whore." and then I'd click on their profile and it looks like a KKK meeting. https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/641/764/cd7.gif
Terrible
The Latest home feed of Primal is likely the main source of harrassers finding women. or any place where someone has visibility into more of Nostr. When I am testing Nos people see the posts and respond even though I generated a key 5 min prior. There are lots of experiments Nostr could try to resolve this issue: - Turn off aggregator feeds like Latest for a few months - Ask people to opt into aggregator feeds - A variation is only make this post available to my followers, so it will not post on aggregator feeds - Multiple women have asked for blocks which would prevent people you dont want to see your content from receiving it. The argument “you should stand behind anything you post” falls apart when women post innocous content and they receive harassment. There’s an assumption behind that argument that Nostr exists in a cultural vacuum. However Nostr exists in a world with all sorts of toxic behaviors and those of us building it need to do a better job of not enabling the toxic behaviors within Nostr. I’d also suggest removing Trending overall as it seems to be a reinforcing feedback mechanism “of free speech is the only speech and everyone else just needs to suck it up. “ Max Fisher wrote a book called The Chaos Machine which takes an indepth look at how Trending feeds reinforce tribal behavior. Here’s a poorly taken screenshot from the book. Anyone who wants to better understand the mechanisms behind online harassment should read it. https://image.nostr.build/d1d6b966bba247810ea069854ad1cfa4a69b166897e4af5970eb231d5c3f1d35.jpg
Edit - Primal’s default ordering of the home feed is: Trending 24hr Most Zapped 4h Nostr Hightlights Latest Latest with replies The last 2 are the feeds of people you follow. The other ones are aggregate feeds. I understand this is a discovery mechanism for people new to Nostr however it has unintended consequences we should examine.
I stopped using that client after the shadow ban incident. Trust, once lost, cannot be recovered.
What shadow ban incident? My feed on Primal feels, scant. I'm worried shadow bans are occurring.
thanks for sharing your thoughts. I widely agree with everything you've said. I for one don't use any nostr client that has featured or trending posts.
Why don't girls be anon? The majority of nostr users are
https://i.nostr.build/roqqa.jpg
You get engagement by being female. But there are two sides to that. Use the mute.
There are many/most uses cases that don't work effectively, if you stay completely anon. Like finding other women to chat with and meet up with IRL. Not everyone exists solely on the Internet.
There are a lot of apps for that. Hashtags/groups can be used to for things like that. I stay anon for a reason, you know. Because it's a neutral ground. I want to read valuable info, content, not a 2nd Instagram or whatever.
That is your choice. Other people make other choices. You will have to learn to coexist with people who aren't posing as inanimate objects or hit the mute.
I agree with your problem of ineffective spam-filters / muting options atm. New Year's Eve was a great example of the vulnerability to be spammed. I have no problem with co-existing, but when someone exposes himself publicly, in a place without moderation or closed groups with admins and so on, then the person exactly that - exposed. It's a free choice. That's why I don't expose myself in such places
Sorry but are you still going on about this? Maybe it’s time to ‘Bardot’ it…you know build a bridge and go over it. I’ve been hearing about this for over 48 hours now and it’s getting quite tiresome. And yes I am a female on nostr and this going on is deeming to some of the females on nostr.
I mean, women really shouldn't be using email. But then again, neither should anyone else. We should get rid of the accursed technology once and for all.
Good point.
Hey, I remember the 90s, when e-mail became completely unusable for a time because spam was invented. Then someone invented spam filters. 🤷♀️
Spam filters sucked for YEARS. DKIM, SPF and DMARC fixed that, at enormous cost in centralisation, censorship and fragility. I'm hoping we can do better, with modern client capabilities, but I'm aware that we might not succeed for all use cases :-/
We have Bitcoin micropayments, which opens up entirely new possibilities.
Very good point
And we can experiment with WOT Score built from the your followers+broader network, weight stronger if score comes from in network - count mutes - count follows? - count/classify comments?? - count/classify reactions??? Minimum threshold for interaction 🛑/💸 if < lower bound 💁 if close to zero (less interactions, less data to work with) 👍 if > upper bound
Take the raw count, divide by total number of interactions, throw it into a tan function, scale appropriately and you'll have a WOT that pretty much does that @hodlbod could you give some intuition behind your WOT metric? (follows - ln(mutes)^2)
Some say that women shouldn't be allowed outside on their own, because they can't navigate. I disagree, but then, I did have to rescue one from a shopping center yesterday. She wasn't interested in further shopping, her English is excellent, and she has Google Maps on her phone. But the app developers hadn't considered the needs of someone who gets lost as readily as @Laeserin attracts asshats. (Specifically, she was on Level Three and needed to get to Level One, but according to her Google Maps isn't very helpful for that.) (Some cynical men say that women feign helplessness as a way to flirt with men. I'm sure they do, but this one is my wife and I don't think that was the case yesterday. IDK how to fix that UX problem, other than by going inside and finding her.) #notAllWomen Building a better filter for Nostr seems like the easier challenge, so working on a SpaCy workflow right now... nostr:nevent1qqsr4ylmk37vly645anusgjegjykxzzujg4sgdscre0epqspx5see7qprfmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdaksygxavex4usqkgvage45lqpdwzjqgqs630zd4nhj67p38dhn9vv7nrypsgqqqqqqsjwdua5
Anyone can use Nostr, even those who think women shouldn't use Nostr. If you haven't figured it out yet, that's only your problem.
I've never understood the women-hating side of the internet. Its all divide and conquer type psyop bull
