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Notes by rabble | export

 And since we’re talking about how Bluesky works, nostr:note19pz8hy9gpw4z8ar8l8znqgs6sxwmx2f9x3xy7lclsa2ulg2dxcnq306zvh  I might as well share this technical deep dive. 

https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/bluesky

 
 All content on nostr is put on relays. Your nip-05 can list what relays you use and some relays run bots to crawl the network for kind 0 events which have your relay and profile information. 

Relays can use a syncing protocol between themselves. 

The traditional nostr model just reads from some set of relays. And you miss things.  There are inbox / outbox models where you find what relay a person is using and read from  / write to those relays. That’s where nostr is going. Primal and some others like nos use a bot and big caching server. Which is a kind of centralization but hasn’t risked the network the way Bluesky does it because it’s entirely open and you can easily opt out. Inbox / outbox plus caching is probably the best solution for performance and openness.  
 The new version of primal.net is hot. the first time a Nostr app is good enough for newbies. 

Watch Paul outline what they’ve done. 

https://primal.b-cdn.net/media-upload?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.primal.net%2Fuploads%2F7%2Fd1%2Fde%2F7d1de49b900abd7034214e359b18a0762d3ab1a49fb4e13499cf839b823f0568.mov 
 Yeah it’s the first example of algorithm choice in Nostr that seems to really work well. The pieces were all there but @miljan put it together well with this latest release.  
 We need to get this updated so thanks @Ben Arc for taking on reworking the nostr home page. It’s what people find first. 

nostr:note1xll2tdkz9jv05v0yvnhvdt8n03g9a8gtmcsw99wg0qljgvu7jj4sfunf6d 
 How decentralized is Bluesky really? @Christine Lemmer-Webber has a great essay digging in to it and looking at the design decisions that make Bluesky work but also really hard to decentralize. 

Nostr is mentioned several times, we take the mantle of an actual decentralized network by making it work really well. Interestingly Primal is the best Nostr client ecosystem and they’ve also had to introduce centralization to make the experience work well. 

If you care about social media protocols and want to get in to some of the details about how then work, then read this essay. We can’t build Nostr effectively if we don’t understand what others are doing. 

https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/ 
 @jb55 yeah but we still have a bunch of fixes we need to do to a bunch more work so notifications work better, search, versioning profiles and lists, etc…. We’re getting there and can do it. But we do need to do the work.  
 Es sumamente importante que tenemos una diversidad de apps y no concentración en una o un par de apps.  
 Well we need to update how we talk about Nostr. @Ben Arc’s redesign of Nostr.com is a great step forward. 

We need to be intentional about the narrative we put out about Nostr. Tech gets adopted because of social reasons not just which technology is better.  
 Rabble: a large group of butterflies.
"we arrived at the grounds after following a rabble of butterflies" 
 I wonder if this serverless graph rag llm would be good for Nostr data.

https://github.com/pingcap/autoflow 
 Recurring payments are an important feature in the sustainable business for saas and content creators. We need it to work with crypto or people will just use credit cards because it makes the economics of their business work.  
 The one login many apps is the thing that makes peoples light bulb go off. @Linda has talked to hundreds of people about their social media use and nostr in customer development interviews. Her framing is based on what we found works.  
 Interesting, another big French AI startup, runner h, which is an LLM for building an agent model to work for managing other software, think web scraper bots powered by LLM. 

https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/20/h-the-ai-startup-that-raised-220m-launches-its-first-product-runner-h-for-agentic-applications/ 
 Exciting to see that Foursquare has open sourced their POI database. Imagine a satlantis but with 100 million venues. 

https://simonwillison.net/2024/Nov/20/foursquare-open-source-places/

nostr:note1yt5hkf43r359wp7gyw82fpd7hwa2dmy04vat0qztchmxdd4a9y6stfzhed 
 So is there going to be some kind of zapathon celebration or something else when bitcoin crosses a $100k usd valuation? 
 Oh yeah sorry. I mangled my profile while working on my PR for pronouns ironically enough. I’ll fix it. 
 nostr:nprofile1qqs8d3c64cayj8canmky0jap0c3fekjpzwsthdhx4cthd4my8c5u47spzfmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvu... 
 Yeah people and client developers can decide if they want to display it. Hell someone can even make a filter to auto mute people with pronouns if you’re offended easily.  
 The government of New Zealand has made these words illegal to display in public starting today.

Aotearoa Natives
Bandidos MC
Barbarian Stormtrooper
Black Power
Comanchero MC
Crips
Damned Pirates
Devils Henchmen MC
Filthy Few MC
Fitus
Full Blooded Islanders
Greazy Dogs MC
Head Hunters MC
Hells Angels MC
Highway 61 MC
HTOWN07
Killerbeez
King Cobra
Kuki Squad
Magog MC
Mangu Kaha
Mongols MC
Mongrel Mob
New Zealand Nomad
Outcasts MC
Outlaws MC
Rebels MC
Road Knights MC
Satans Slaves MC
Stormtrooper
Taupiri MC
Tribal Huk
Tribesmen MC
Uru Taha
West Side

It took all of 3 minutes from when the law came in to force for the police to stop a motorist and arrest him for having a placard on his car dashboard which said “Mongrel Mob”. I think if gangs are doing things which are crimes which have victims then the people who commit those crimes should be arrested, but this kind thing is a thought crime. 

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2024/0036/latest/whole.html#LMS939439 
 apparently the courts have ruled tattoos are exempt so most gang members are getting very visible tattoos. Which of course reinforces their membership in the gang which is the opposite of the government’s intent. 
 New Zealand is a great place to live. It’s an incredibly fair, transparent, high trust society where most things work really well. Nature is spectacular and the quality of life is some of the best in the world. But it’s not perfect and there are things to make better. It’s also part of the larger world, so trends elsewhere happen here too. 

Come visit. Rent a camper van, travel around the country, see for yourself.  
 New Zealand has a new law that fundamentally goes against the rights of free expression. They’re banning people wearing patches on their clothing or in some cases even posessing symbols if the goverment designates it as ‘gang related’. 

https://thespinoff.substack.com/p/will-banning-gang-patches-actually?utm_campaign=email-half-post&r=dg42f

If gangs are doing things illegal, then arrest them for the illegal things. The new government policy of making speech illegal is pretty messed up, in this case racist too.  
 Gm,

Merging pronouns into our protocol spec as a joke is demonstrating that maybe we aren't seri... 
 Working on that… 

https://github.com/planetary-social/nos/pull/1695

Seriously though, why do folks think free speech is only a thing for the kind of speech they like?  
 ok snowflake. 
 I think if we do a flexible system with free form we should also define in the nip the conventions that a bunch of nostr apps are using in order to make it easier for those who want to support new fields to know the naming. 

Like for the ethereum folks is it eth.address or ethaddress or eth_address? @Alex Gleason 🐍 ’s proposed nip should be popular because it’ll allow support for linking to every kind of crypto wallet address. ;-D 
 i’m not the person upset about what other people say.  
 I mean clients don’t have to let users set the field or display it. It’s entirely optional. And if you want to put random pronouns you can. :)  
 Nostr users to follow who don’t talk about Nostr or Bitcoin. ;-D Diversify content on Nostr. #grownostr 

nostr:note12q9lrskwa8vj2a806t9u9u2nyedymm59sc4wj8kpnm37sjsg49ps0t7uu3 
 If you don’t want to be welcoming perhaps you can just not say anything. 
 The government should not have the unilateral power to shut down legally operating non-profits simply because it disagrees with them. A vibrant, open democracy depends on the freedom for diverse organizations to exist and express different perspectives. The suppression of opposition groups is precisely the kind of action that erodes democratic values, as we’ve seen in countries like Hungary and Turkey, where shutting down dissenting organizations was a key step in dismantling democratic institutions and consolidating authoritarian power. nostr:nevent1qqs2mm5lkjylg57st5m2fvv408ptr5e9ysc9zfk8326kcmavvm8mk3qpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43qygpplt8hdyv0kg7gfsdujdr7pgdt4z9lxsh9xjvs9hctnum7n0nnzqwukmd0 
 Do you engage in UX research at nos.social? 
 Yes. @Linda does most of our UX research but other people on the team also do it. We’re constantly interviewing people and testing prototypes.  
 I am part of Gen X. This election felt like to me the first real victory over the Boomers. 
 Quite litterally a boomer won over a gen x candidate. 
 An absolute landslide of people joined BlueSky this month. 

I'm getting social media marketing q... 
 If you follow a bridge account on bluesky you can then see that bluesky content on Nostr via BridgyFed and Mostr. 
 Anybody use a FairPhone and got recommendations for how they use it with Nostr? nostr:nevent1qqsvegm3w5jeepmmqlded6ht2l6z3mkgfk6qd67eunsw3rlggk7hlecpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43qz9nhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7uewwdhkx6tpdsq3gamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7q3qj60x528w2g2vkq5kae5uhh8y7sezjyj20zcsg0v9muc72cmdpu0s08etfd 
 Bluesky has 10 million monthly active users. It’s still a centralized service with aspirations to be a decentralized protocol, but what they have done is working for a real set of users. They don’t overwhelm or confuse people because the main app feels like something people know and their starter packs really work for people finding their communities of interest and people. 

nostr:note1gyd65s889kwla5lrhve646jw7hq7wcz5k834r7x6dm85dx4dhx9sd4prmm 
 Nostr supports lists we could build starter pack functionality in to Nostr and nostr clients for onboarding pretty easily. It’s about UX and some tooling.  
 Hopefully this doesn’t sound too snotty but I chuckle when people seem to lecture me on how a s... 
 Well I think the desire to explain how stuff works without any context is really common unfortunately.  
 Good essay by @Cory Doctorow about why he’s not joining Bluesky because although ATprotocol is open, the Bluesky network and service is not because there is no way to use it without any services run by the company. 

https://pluralistic.net/2024/11/02/ulysses-pact/#tie-yourself-to-a-federated-mast 
 Is anybody self hosting nostr.build ? Wondering if it makes sense to keep my account and self hos... 
 I think folks mostly use blossom to self host a nostr media server. 

https://github.com/hzrd149/blossom 
 I find it funny that Americans are very focused on the 13 British colonies that joined the United States of America and nobody ever even acknowledges the 10 others which did not. It feels like a massive blind spot. The only time they’re even obliquely referenced is related to the war of 1812. 

Odd given how much obsession Americans have with the country’s founding. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_America# 
 Sure but the history I learned is how all the colonies decided to united to form the United States but never a mention that almost half the colonies didn’t choose to join.  
 @chadlupkes interesting. What colony sent delegates but didn’t join? 
 I find it interesting the way the Bluesky users are super anti crypto but @Jay 🦋 who is CEO of Bluesky says that it IS a web 3 project. 

https://jaygraber.medium.com/web3-is-self-certifying-9dad77fd8d81 
 Excited we’ll have people and a booth at fossdem! 

nostr:note1vn2pzx52xjutpsvqa65qfs5e850f9s84cg4xf23mrdxgvuegpqcs4ef2aw 
 I’ve seen people here say they’d like a Nostr app like TikTok for video. I’ve even thought ... 
 TikTok is much better if you use it in a country where they haven’t enabled the crazy home shopping network functionality. This is kind of like Amazon where they found a business model that makes so much money they can’t stop as it destroys the central value proposition of their platform. 
 Yeah it’s only US, UK, Spain, France, Germany, and Italy I think right now. 

https://www.tiktok.com/discover/tiktok-monetization-eligible-countries?lang=en 
 Don’t let the loud trolls stop you. This is a good idea.  
 I mean if they block me then ideally others shouldn’t see my replies. Otherwise it’s mute not block. 
 Had big plans to crush code today, but nostr:nprofile1qqs8y6s7ycwvv36xwn5zsh3e2xemkyumaxnh85dv7jw... 
 Oh I’m interested in these client and nip ideas.  
 Trump enforcing neutrality on section 230 is going to be very interesting, because it would force... 
 Trump won’t actually make any real changes to section 230 just like he won’t change or repeal the ACA. Too much of the system depends on the way 230 works now. If you change it so platforms can’t remove or prioritize the content as they see fit then either the platforms become unusable due to spam and scams.  
 Someone should write a dunkpiece on bluesky and post it to hackernews 
 We’re trying to do something really different from Bluesky and that’s ok. We need to define and grow nostr for what it is and get out of the horse race.  
 Wait. For real?! 
 Native Nostr groups are a reality thanks to NIP-29, they are a great collaborative development to... 
 I think medium term we should be using the MLS groups that @JeffG is working on but so much of the group flow and ux app experience can be developed with nip-29 relays and then ported over to the better security without server dependency of nip-29 when it’s ready.  
 There needs to be specific “get verified” instructions in onboarding to nostr

Imaging a newb... 
 We include tools and instructions as part of the @nos.social onboarding. It works. We don’t have people get confused or ask questions about that. We’ve got other things to fix, but that one works. Please copy what we did.  Both the nip-05 server and client are open source.  
 Pretty sure the majority of people moved from X to Bluesky without even knowing the differences b... 
 Most people have always settled values, spaces, and vibes based on tribal community not objective evaluation of the underlying choices of the tribe. We’re social animals. The tech is not the most important thing in social software. The people are. So people follow the people they admire.  
 The way yall call black woman especially Michelle, 
 Masculine/a man is disgusting.

nostr:nevent... 
 Here here.  
 What can you buy in Argentina with 21 pesos?

Any serious answer from Argentine users gets 21 sat... 
 When I first moved to Argentina in 2000 you could get an amazing dinner with wine and desert for 21 pesos. Today I don’t think there is anything you could get as the currency has been devalued 1200x.  
 Feeling accomplished 🫡 I just finished helping one of my leftmost-leaning family members set u... 
 Eventually we’ll have good tools build around what @JeffG is doing with MLS encrypted groups and WhiteNoise.  

I think there’s a huge opportunity to get progressives on Nostr because it’s the only social media protocol that can provide real end to end encryption and privacy. Bluesky, threads, the fediverse, farcaster and the others have all given up on the idea of privacy as being too hard. 

Everyone on the left is freaking out and searching for freedom tools. And not just posting. I just listed to a round table of digital activists talking about strategies for the next 4 years. They brought up the need for a financial system that can’t be shutdown. From the anti-cop city Black Lives Matter activists in Atlanta to abortion access mutual aid networks, they’re all facing being locked out of the baking system and looking for alternatives. Let’s get them the tools they want and need. The tech is for everyone.  
 Do we all agree that X is now state-"owned" media again? 
 I’m not sure if X is state owned or X has owned the state. Either way. Yes.  
 Every fucking Nostr app must accept Zaps. 

there, for starters. 
 Why? That’s not even how nostr works. The zaps are sent to a wallet you choose in your profile. It’s not even a client thing. That’s kind of the point, nostr app devs don’t need to support zaps for users of those apps to be able to take advantage of zaps.  
 Welcome back to Nostr. I suggest you try @nos.social at least to use our directory because we highlight lefty and non-bitcoin nostr users.  
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 Yep.  
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 Of all the companies to be killed by AI I’m not sad about Chegg.  
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 We don’t show users their follower count in nos.social because it’s not the right thing to prioritize. 
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 The Māori mobilization around this treaty bill is massive. Not just in parliament but across the country there’s real grassroots mobilization.  
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 Don’t let the loud trolls stop you. This is a good idea.