I was thinking the same, and personal relay inside a  client would improve UX when it's came from loading time.

nostr:nevent1qqspgavdrty0fvaz32dz2l45rc8yv039zhckaclr9fsml4q6nr9ndqcpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygrkcud2uwjfruweamz8ewshug5umfq38g9mkmn2u9mk6ajru2w2lgpsgqqqqqqsxyr9d2 

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 Melvin is spot on. The pros is that there could be tech innovation and long term angle of how social media will be. The con - will embedding a personal relay be consuming of data, tech needs, energy ? WIll something like Jack's nanotech miner concept be something to think abt? The other problem I have with this is that when cops ransack you and your belongings, everything is gone (For some it might be far fetched, but for others it's everyday story). 

I was thinking of a relay marketplace. It makes it easier for people to choose from. And relay vendors can make revenue. 

nostr:note17xd9fsh99g4cxnmp55hv04kx7g3kuz2z2e6uk64n32knujfmraes54kmmn 

 

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 He probably just meant quality in a general sense. Onboarding is more than just a signin page. I am doing a redesign for onboarding. 

 what are your ideas? 

 I will announce my ideas at NostrAsia 

 Both, as a quality client would offer a way to remove low quality notes.

Say what you will about Twitter but there were far more educational notes/threads over there. I miss that.

I wish I could dial down the memes. 

 twitters algo is horrible 

 Agree.

There is still good content over there, that is completely missing here 

 the biggest issue is one algo, they dont even do chronological

#nostr needs an algo and list market, we need top lists to give new accounts to get started, default antispam list etc 

 Where are the thoughtful, educational threads commonly found on Twitter, here? 

I love nostr and having fun but it's full of superficial shit and memes preaching to the choir

An algo market does not fix that, or does it? 

 this is one of those threads, they do popup

this convo is what a chat mode for kind1 notes centered on a thread etc would be perfect

we have access to the fedi via relay.mostr.pub

the fedi bootstraps nostr

 

 Interesting take.

Yes there certainly are conversations around. What I'm referring to are those 1/n tweets by the same author where they dive deep into a topic, things like that 

 an algo could easily pull those out

#report interesting or deepdive 😃 

 this is what chat is good for btw 

 hash out ideas, uninterrupted thought flows 

 Isn't wanting to re-create Twitter threads a self-limiting idea?  Threads are a workaround for the short-form nature of Twitter.  On Nostr, if you have more to say, there are long-form note kinds that support that. 

 It's not. I randomly came across interesting topics while scrolling on Twitter. It's not the same user experience as going to a separate site like Habla and start scanning titles. That would work exactly like going from Twitter to Medium.

What is different in Nostr is that kind 1 clients could technically show long-form content (folded) and one could click to load more if the first paragraph sounds interesting. 

 That might be the way to go.  Habla.news is a relay just like any other, so any client can read from it and render the content however it fits best within the framework of the app. 

 Found this by chance

nostr:note1kxh3tl4vua2rk5hpwd0rrm7uwqf8879svuy3vxnm77dkw3gnqttsyya7v5 

 Good points made there.  On the other hand, though, I'd contend that character limits can cause conversations to lose nuance.  Being able to spin off discussions on different entries in a thread has value, I can see, but I wonder what limiting ourselves only to bite-sized discussion points does to our mind.

There's a place for Twitter, and a place for other platforms as well. 

 Yes, someone mentioned highlights could be used to make comments on specific chunks of text

I really hope there's no more place for Twitter in this world 😂 

 if you viewed the thread as a chat spinoffs would be quoted replies 

 an algo and list market fixes it mostly, we need people but we have enough and the fedi 

 content comes with people, nostr by being unstoppable will slowly grind and build 

 a quality client should present quality notes

filter, signal 

 I’m curious your experience if you’ve tried @nos.social. We’ve got a local db and do a lot to try and make the experience consistent and reliable. Feedback, especially critical feedback, is immensely helpful. 

 Great. I'll give it a try👍 

 @adamcurry calls BlueSky “Trans Maoist social media” 😂

It’s Twitter for narrative addicts. 

 Wowwwww. But also, yes. 

 adam needs to switch to nostr full time, bring his fedi instance too 

 Opinion impopular #Nostr es la red social del mejor dinero ⚡ por excelencia, ese es en orden de prioridades el argumento principal para atraer a las personas. La soberanía y la resistencia a la censura son importantes pero no son sexis, el punto focal diferenciador son los zaps ⚡ sin fricciones. 

#BitcoinCulturalBattle
#Nostr
#Amethyst
#Hispano


nostr:nevent1qqsxav9lpyf02fjs6szhmgh6u33zcy7dzcrf96azxptej6luxjksf6gpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzp8pwp2rsgymh8ju3twwfe5hpe0ghu5aw9v9gd2a9uklslsfuggxjqvzqqqqqqymxlnf3 

 This is how Secure Scuttlebutt works. Scuttlebutt was the inspiration for much of what is nostr. I think we could get to efficient gossip between apps / relays which would help a lot. That said, scuttlebutt started out 100% peer to peer and offline first, and then evolved to have pubs which are like relays. We need relays for the network to function efficiently. But there’s no reason apps can’t be local micro-relays. 

Then you also get cool things like syncing over mesh networks, censorship evasion, and nostr working when the internet goes down or is non-existent.  

 This is the closest I've seen to that idea

https://github.com/Ruulul/hyper-nostr 

 The strfry relay also does syncing.  

 > syncing over mesh networks, censorship evasion, and nostr working when the internet goes down or is non-existent

Does it work under these conditions too?

Your last paragraph reminded me of this project because it's built on tech that doesn't depend on DNS. I know we're far from a state-level attack but fun to think about nostr over other transports 

 #p2p #nostr #relay

nostr:nevent1qqs9n2vzg2pmug4s3pqmshnsqyr3ycqw4rapuqyrpdsgu0l7xjxzq6qpzdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ukzcnvv5hx7un8qgs8y6s7ycwvv36xwn5zsh3e2xemkyumaxnh85dv7jwus6xmscdpcygrqsqqqqqpum9ex7 

 mad someone did it,  a holepunch.to relay 

 Just got an idea, whenever anyone hears first about nostr, what do they do? Google I think is the main route people go through 

You then get to the nostr website only to see a developer focused documentation which I think is a problem for non dev people and adoption in general  

 Can we talk more about 

“Then you also get cool things like syncing over mesh networks, censorship evasion, and nostr working when the internet goes down or is non-existent.“

Cause one of the things irl frens tell me a lot is what happens when the internet goes down or ceases to exist bc of some apocalyptic shit happens, what happens to bitcoin and nostr are they usable at that point ? Or gone with the internet.. and then this is where mesh networks kick in to my brain sooo yea I’d love to discuss this further idk maybe on a nest or something 

 ✅ This is on my list 

 LFG! has anybody talked about it on podcasts yet ? I’d love to hear more about everyone’s train of thought on this 🙌 

 We touched on it here: https://fountain.fm/episode/CtvU8tXLyz0OpoBgfNUW 

 Really ? Awesome! Ima check it out 🫂💜🤙 

 i think the solution is some apps start experimenting with adding p2p, holepunch.to looks a good framework 

 I tend to agree, also cause if something becomes for the masses, it becomes inevitably total shit. 

 decentralized media is a huge problem not solved on nostr yet 

 daddy shush 

 The DAUs was one noticed didn't agree with what I see. I am taking some time this weekend to process the August logs for all the Relayable relays. Will post numbers once do that to compare.  

 hmmm that gives me an idea to make some tiktoks about nostr. 

how would you do PR for nostr? it’s kind of complicated. 

 Take notes 

https://youtu.be/HrZE4kj9ZhY?si=KDPeshFl3eOoFYxu 

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 love my girl carla. 

 Woots! Go Roya!  something light with a touch of humour would be interesting. 

Content wise : 
1. between what’s engaging and what you like. 
2. Simple and not tech scary lingos :) 

Time : 30 secs - 2 mins clips ? < 5 mins ? 

Topics : gotta brain storm this - 

1. A parody of Google's "Parisian Love" ad to illustrate how everything is tracked. Karnage has valuable insights on this.
2. Interviewing people on Nostr from diff countries and ask how Nostr can benefit their country - just straightforward points 
3. Also ask them why they personally love Nostr - that 1-2 sentences 
4.  Ask your parents how communication has changed in Iran pre and post-Ayatollah regime. 
5. Small communities in St Louis - those fun short interviews on them zapping for the first time and and getting people’s excited facial reactions
6. How does gov’ts /CCP track you. A simple example based on what you are triggered to buy, wear, do, think try etc based on what you clicked like once. You can interview a dev and ask these questions 
7. Did you know section : every year thousands of posts are asked to be taken down by gov'ts.are governments protecting you or themselves ? Interview more devs 
8. tools like music apps, highlighter - have devs work with users to try and you their feedbacks (this can be over time to show how things get better)

You may want to set a % breakdown of contents, your brand identity, target market etc. it can also be trial and error, see what works and excites you and the viewers. Slowly find your niche. 

But it sounds great. Good luck!  

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 WOAH pam, thank you, just bookmarked this. i appreciate you taking the time to think this out. will update you on what i cook up 

 <3 go wild and have fun with it  

 have you seen @stemstr ? it’s an app for music creators to collaborate and create together. there’s a huge addressable market of music artists on closed networks. 

 we should use some funds for marketing, PR, branding. Establish differentiators between clients. Understand what are the talking points in all the smaller user markets that can be tapped into. Would be great to have mainstream media but we do not need excessive $$$ for it. Tapping into micro influencers, blogs, reviews, small media - starting small - can get the fire going just as much.   

 And also use funds for Nostr UX. Do testing with various apps / services we use with Nostr to learn how to do it better. I think we could have a kind of Nostr UX service that looked at individual apps and also any systemic UX issues which are shipping user experience and we could make better. A lot of the issues aren’t up to individual app developers, but are related to protocol.  

 I think clients are finding their identity and niche. This might interest you (I don't have the bandwidth to update it though) : 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GjfN_eMiEywqXfKFHZMw4rLnoQLBXYEyl2NCEtsCXWw/edit 

 Nice list, it’s wrong and out of date about a lot of clients, but I think it’d be useful to be maintained.  

 yea, the change is fast. The progression of dev, no of clients and apps would also make great stats. If you know of anyone who is passionate abt Nostr and can do a way better job maintaining this, would love to pass it on. I think its so useful  

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 Maybe we could engage with the folks at SimplySecure.org who have already been studying UX and decentralization.  

 if you're going to use money to advertise you have to focus your advertising on people who would be interested in this product.

for example it would be total waste of time to advertise to boomers on Facebook or to shit-libs on Mastodon.

on other hand there is quite a lot of transplants from GAB here on Nostr.

GAB is much bigger than Nostr right now so you could pick up quite a few people from there.

not every person on GAB is a nazi too.  for example Dr. Robert Malone is currently under attack on GAB for not being a Nazi:

https://gab.com/RobertMaloneMD

he was smart enough to invent MRNA vaccine perhaps he's also smart enough to use Nostr if somebody got in touch with him. 

 if you want to advertise try to do it through Joe Rogan - that would ensure you're tapping into the right audience.

Alex Jones is an option as well.

Personally i am here because of nostr:nprofile1qqsw4v882mfjhq9u63j08kzyhqzqxqc8tgf740p4nxnk9jdv02u37ncprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqyvhwumn8ghj7ur4wfshv6tyvyhxummnw3ezumrpdejqz9rhwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjmcxqkwf0  and nostr:nprofile1qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgspz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduq3samnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wddhkcmrfv3jhytnc09aqzxrhwden5te0wajkccm0d4jjumn0wd68ytnhd9hx2cfkckq  

If you can get big names in the freedom movement like Rogan, Jones, Stefan Molyneux etc. to join that would attract a lot of people

just don't waste time and money advertising to people who aren't interested in freedom ( liberals ) or technology ( boomers ) 

 I think advertising would be a HORRIBLE use of money. That said, personally I have zero interest in seeing Joe Rogan or Alex Jones’ audience when I use Nostr. I’m not saying they can’t use nostr, it’s just not who I want to see. I strongly suspect we have little in common socially or politically. 

I liked talking to @hodlbod because he’s looking at creating community space for christian nostr. I’m a militant atheist and want a nostr to be a place where we can have both church groups and @s3x_SOCIAL style hard core gay porn. Both communities should be able to use it, see the kind of content and community they want. To do that we need to let people setup some boundaries and space.  

 get rid of global and just show kinds from people you follow or interact with 

 Yep, that’s what we do in @nos.social. 

Also, I’m getting pretty sick of the ‘shitcoin’ airdrop spam.  

 it gets ugly out there https://image.nostr.build/315221a7c2ed04adb6187c4b2d13ccb1710b49965f8d4ded237b4337de6fe6d3.jpg  

 Why do you mute people on Nostr? It’s just inoffensive crap everywhere lol 

 it’s faster to scroll through the spam this way, I would prefer to not ever see it, consolidating all the muted replies in one reply list would be helpful 

 Yeah, there’s tons of stuff I don’t want to see. I don’t want part of my digital experience. I mute folks all the time. In fact, we’ve got a ticket that lets me choose to use other lists as mutes as well, so I don’t have to do all the muting myself. Nobody’s forcing you to mute anything, want to wade through offensive shit, go for it. Don’t like what I say, mute me.  

 Spam 

 Exactly, without mutes and the ability for relays to block/remove data based on spam algorithms, we’ll just see the experience ruined by spam.  

 I’ve brought up the censorship conversation a few times on Nostr.

I think the general consensus is “build them but never have one ring to rule them all.”

Each client should have a library of mute/ban setups that the user can choose from. 

 yes !  censorship should be non-destructive ! 

it should be based on users choosing to filter their feed not on information getting holocausted from the network.

and it shouldn't even be up to the client.

there should be blacklists any user can choose to install on any client to filter results.  you should be able to run as few or as many of these blacklists as you want. 

 no spam on amethyst, get a better app

if relays unreasonably censor then the diversity of views will be surpressed as is now on big tech

do you hate diversity?
 

 I hate the way diversity is shoved down everyone’s throat. 

 I use amethyst but I make my own nostr app nos.social so fixing it for myself is kind of my job. 

 spam blocking doesnt work well in amethyst until you have enough follows for reports to work, it fucks up your feed but global then works better, its why we need multiple lists and algos and a market for them

you can copy whole follow lists with iris.to 

 i am going to state the obvious here but given you use it you should probably work on amethyst @Vitor Pamplona 

 I use it because I want to know what @Vitor Pamplona is up to and what the android nostr experience is like. 

I don’t use android as my primary mobile OS because it’s a ux, security and surveillance mess. 💣 

 Is that true of calyx/graphene as well? 

 Na. There are android builds which aren’t terrible. But I stopped using Linux on the desktop because I’m lazy and don’t want to spend all my time building and configuring my environment. 😁 

 Same haha. Calyx at least is less hassle than android in my experience 

 I mute spam accounts but everyone on here just sticks to their autistic little bubbles, so I barely mute any real people. 

 I mute on sight, only had to do so to about a dozen and now I never see it 

 I have a feeling the airdrop spam is one of these 'break nostr in a kindhearted way to show it's flaws'. Imagine how much worse replies could be.. 

The only answer is paid relays. 

 

https://image.nostr.build/077720a8b6ea47cf23ba4aec991f8406910bae4d6ffd1c3f31fec0b42fe0d35d.jpg 

 😂😂😂😂😂

nostr:nevent1qqswlqk35x4fqnwqrn2fjaydvvhax96x58g6tysl8w2jx6v7nuktlwcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsyg9msp78gn3twglrhg9nj85kl584sc2340upqnehqtwd05y9kqj72gpsgqqqqqqsvlx438 

 And 'Token distribution' 

 we have more in common sociopolitically than you realize.  no i am not gay and i don't have purple hair but actually i am on Nostr because i'm sick and tired of all the Christians on GAB.  and i have links to Tranny porn on my own website.  

i don't see the value of attracting Christians to NOSTR because GAB is already a paradise for Christians.  GAB CEO and Kanye West is as close as Christians will ever get to the 2nd coming of Jesus.

also when i signed up with Coracle i was asked to agree to not post any porn, which i find disappointing.  i love porn and while it is debatable whether porn is speech to me it is NOT debatable that porn ban ( a ban on something voluntary that doesn't hurt anybody ) is antithetical to freedom. 

 Gab is awful lol

I banned uploading porn on coracle because I was personally hosting and moderating the content. I've now switched to nostr.build, so as reluctant as I am to have people use coracle for porn, you now only have to abide by their terms, not mine. 

 thank you for clarifying.  i really think you need to make this clearer during the sign up process though.  

when i was hit with the "no porn" i had no idea whose rule that is or why such a rule was adopted.  a logical assumption would have been that maybe it is to avoid legal responsibility for any potential child porn or something like that - it never even crossed my mind that i am again dealing with Christians right after having escaped GAB.

and more importantly had i known this rule was specific to Coracle i would have chosen a different client.

and if you would rather have perverts like me use something else you can suggest a different client.  i use big screen TVs hooked up to tower workstations running windows - so anything good that would work for this setup i would be willing to try. 

 If you have problems with the creator of Heaven and Earth and his people, maybe the problem is you. 

 never speak to me again you subhuman piece of shit 

 Ok, have fun in the Lake of Eternal Fire. 

 It isn’t yet, that’s my point. Nobody is doing it.

But you can sign packets. So any modified stuff would be very easy to detect / prevent. 

 signing is for rep 

 uncensorable torrent site, adding comments back to piratebay would be big 

 Someone should legitimately clone Tweetbot or one of the good twitter apps and make it work with nostr.

Copy what works instead of half assing your own solution. 

 copying what works should always be the starting point, its why nostr works because @fiatjaf ignored things that didnt work like p2p

there is new things that will work really well however and thats combining other things that work like chat and forum reddit and twitter on the same data set, something nostr was born to do 

 amethyst wont let me like your note?? @Vitor Pamplona 

 omg lol it liked lots but didnt show it kek 

 🤣 

 This applies as much to apps as standards. 

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards_2x.png 

 #nostr heals