Oddbean new post about login | logout Why implement a report censorship tool if you can mute?! nostr:note14303dcktzg3ch7p9qmau79cayskcfjqwnzqw6hpjqvdgevmw4luqt2zazk
I like the idea of reporting bad or malicious content without revealing yourself. Of course you can use anonymous accounts (and maybe clients can make this a feature) but this doesn't help towards building a WoT. I'm starting to think that we need protocols that allow us to gossip about a person or their content to others without allowing it to be revealed to that person. While also considering sybil situations too. 🤔
I'm not saying they don't exist, but I have yet to see anyone provide some examples of harassment on nostr. I don't mean nasty interactions that may offend some people, but repeatable and targeted harassment against individuals.
That's not what reporting functions are for. Everyone knows they are for targeted brigading of opinions that are uncomfortable to the power regime. Not sure why this lesson is being repeated on Nostr after being obvious on reddit for two decades, making Nostr necessary. How could authentic people want a popular brigading tool on nostr after all we've seen Oh yeah, it's because there are people who want to be able to censor via brigade
I totally agree. The justification for this has been based on harassment, and multiple people have asked for examples for which none have been provided. It may well be made up for that reason. I don't like it one bit. I have said it before, there need that be good, effective tools provided at a user/client level, not protocol.
Talk to any woman on Nostr: @roya ୨୧, @angela, @M. K. Fain , and others. I get homophobic comments on my threads and death threaths in my DM’s. It doesn’t stop me from using Nostr, but it doesn’t give me warm fuzzy feelings either. We’ve heard from a bunch of people who’ve stopped using Nostr because they didn’t like getting harrassed. It’s a problem but not one which tends to be visible to straight guys who are excited about bitcoin and meat.
There’s always haters! Inversely, on all other platforms, white meat eating and Bitcoin loving personas are harassed. It’s not great to see anywhere, just noting that many stereotypes suffer different levels of harassment on different platforms. It will get better as more people on board 🤝 hopefully 😅
I am rather critical of Bitcoin(ers) in many respects, and similarly there are many maximalists who will "attack" me for being critical of their beliefs because I don't fit in with their ideals. It's not my problem people choose to maintain a surface-level bias without trying to gain a better understanding of someone's position.
I have never insulted you for your personal beliefs or way of life, but yet you couldn't help yourself with a personal jab at me, largely based on preconceived assumptions, all because we have differing opinions on how this could be approached in a more productive manner which more people could get on board with. That is no different to how others have treated you, which I have witnessed. It's not a good look, it doesn't help your position as it suggests you are acting in bad faith, but I understand that you may feel personally attacked here so I choose not to take your remarks personally, however, engaging (albeit mildly) in the same fashion is only going to lead to unsavoury exchanges. I don't want to stir up drama with anyone, especially not as a random going around demanding women prove their harassment to me, putting them on the back foot, and likely making them feel further harassed. Perhaps, if you considered looking at other ways to work on solving the problem, you may even gain support from people who do not agree with how you are trying to tackle this issue at present. Nostr is innovating, but from our perspective, you are attempting to employ the very same strategies which have failed other platforms and lead to the creation of this one, and I personally believe these won't succeed here either.
@Sovereign Bear, All i know about you is that you’re in to bitcoin and you haven’t personally seen harassment on Nostr. I don’t know if you’re straight or like meat. ;-D There are after all queer vegan bitcoiners. From your avatar and username, I can guess your politics probably lean libertarian. I didn’t intent to insult you in my post pointing out some people who have been harassed, just that different people can experience the same space very differently. I think we need to work on make spaces that people can govern themselves becuase without self management of our shared public spheres then we’ll face arguments for corporations or the state to do it for us. Not everybody has the same issues or needs the same tools.
For the record I have no dog in the fight of how you choose to make tools on your client. We agree self government provides greater justice Where we would disagree seems to be in how often targeted harassment should be attributed to coordinated machine-aided agenda and non-persons rather than real authentic hateful people with extra time and no other incentive than a hate-filled heart We also might disagree about how reporting should be implemented on various scales I would like for my children to report on each other but it doesn't feel great when they do I don't report people but would tag posts and accounts with my opinions to help my friends heuristics in a WOT environment But I wonder about those slippery slopes IOW we're in the same boat.
I'm into Bitcoin in the same way I am into nostr. I think they are great tools that have the potential to allow people to express themselves without limits imposed by others who do not share the same beliefs. I imagine you may be here for some of the same reasons, where we share some common ground. But I am heavily critical of the direction bitcoin is headed in, which is evident by what I have to say about it in my notes, not just what is in my profile. In fact, I would wager if someone was to summarise my posts about it, they may draw the conclusion that I have grown disappointed in its current state and the people who claim to champion what it initially set out to achieve. I would hate to see the same happen to this protocol. I understand that you are working on solutions to make this platform more usable for everyone, and as unlikely as it may seem I appreciate that you would offer up your time and skills to do so. I would however be lying if I said I don't have some concerns about how you are approaching it, as do others. Of course harassment exists in many forms on nostr, I simply have not witnessed it in a blatant fashion as previously outlined. Perhaps I need to look harder, and perhaps I am somewhat oblivious to it. I fully agree with your second paragraph. 👍
Why do you need to see the harassment to believe people are being harassed? This is a nonsensical take. There’s plenty of things in life you’re not privy to nor experienced, thus you don’t believe any of them because you haven’t experienced them? I’d bet my life that’s not true, if you were an honest person you would admit there’s several things you believe in your time on this planet that you did not directly experience. You keep bringing about tools or better directions yet, you’ve failed to mention them. Thus, you come across as complaining just because you don’t like it with nothing constructive to offer.
I have mentioned them in the past on this topic, there is no point in rehashing that yet again just for your benefit. Just read further up the chain. I am an honest person, did you even read what I wrote in the note you responded to? Did you intentionally ignore the point where I stated that there is harassment? The point I was contesting is how prevalent it really is which would warrant this. You've just into the discussion with no knowledge of what has been addressed on the topic, making up a bunch of assumptions and then making character assassinations. Hilarious.
Stop being a giant faggot, and people will treat you better.
He looks like a person and not a massive bundle of sticks to me. You, on the other hand, look like a child who thinks he's big and bad behind a computer screen but I bet your mommy still has to go through your phone and computer to make sure you're not looking at naughty things. Go suckle at the tit, little one. The adults are talking.
I’m sorry but… getting harassed? That’s literally all that happens on places like X and Facebook.. and even worse most the time on those platforms.
i have never gotten harassed on any social media, even thought my twitter account is bigger than my nostr. just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. it’s way more frequent and insane on here. it’s not a good thing.
This is the only place in my life that I’ve been called a N multiple times. Same re: one or two people sending a DM saying they’d rape me.
This happened so often in the past. The N word bomb as proof of freedom of speech, the negation of the colonic interpretation, the conscious acceptance of retraumatization and the demand: hey, don't be so sensitive. It came from „nobody“ as well as known Devs, male and female. There’s also hardcore racist catholics beliefs ( don’t mix races it’s unworthy in the eye of god) who really believe that they are humanities saviours, and have moral powers. Truly never! read such uneducated BS.
I'm sorry, if someone said that to you 😔, but "mixed marriages" in Catholicism refers to Catholics marrying non-Catholics. The Catholic Church has actually been one of the main forces in overturning antimiscegnation laws, worldwide, including in such famous cases as Loving because marital racism denies the universal priesthood and the sacramental nature of marriage. Anyone claiming otherwise has not been properly catechized.
I don't know what client you use, but on the one I use, Amethyst (on Android), you can add "hidden words" to filter out messages and posts with the N's.
Réellement ? Désolée de devoir faire avec le manque de bon sens, savoir-être ..question d'éducation de valeurs éducatives..nul n'a ce droit sur autrui.. Usez peut-être des subtilités de la communication écrite telle que par recadrage qui peut être aidant dans tels circonstances.. Dans mon secteur d'activités pour éviter que des collègues très competents dans notre domaine d'expertise auprès de publics en souffrance réelle liées à certaines pathologies d'ordre psychique voire cognitif il a fallu mettre en place des formations spécifiques sur le décodage et le repérage des mots en communication écrite ou verbale cela permet à la fois de se protéger et d'aider notre public à se rendre compte de leurs problématiques et des retentissements de leurs comportements dont la plupart des simples mortels qui les accompagnent souffrent infine et refusent catégoriquement de les accompagner.. Dans notre équipe je me trompe malheureusement à devoir accompagner tous ces publics dits difficiles mais c'est épuisant pour les professionnels en psychiatrie, psychopathologies, qui finissent en Burnout à force de se retrouver constamment à ne plus pouvoir contenir la violence d'une communication venant de divers publics en souffrance réelle 🤍🤍🫂
I’ve never been harassed or threatened on my socials but I have on nostr.
This sort of note, claiming that we're all liars, is just starting to feel like more harrassment.
Why are you ignoring the context of what I said before and after? Even suggesting this feels like harassment is insane. I see a lot of interactions between people. I see people being nasty to eachother. Why does no one post some screenshots of how bad it is? Is that REALLY such a crazy thing to ask for?
because: a) we have developed thick skins after months of being on alpha grade clients that barely work b) because it's more fun to quote and ridicule assholes and the best defense is offense
seriously, point b. i am starting to realise just how effective it is when i expose assholes to the public view, they don't want to continue, surprise surprise first thing an abuser does is isolate you
I have no problem with that. People seem to be suggesting that I am defending or supporting any of it. It's fucking dishonest as shit and I won't have it. I have never engaged in any such activity, so to attempt to lump me in the same group is going to get my back up. What I suspect is that some people are conflating people being shitty with targeted repeated harassment of individuals. Since it never shows up in my feeds, I wanted to see some it. And then to suggest that 'feels' like harassment in itself is fucking ridiculous. This really is beside the main point. The blanket approach to try and remedy this is lazy.
LOL I actually have reposted some of the stuff and I report all of it, but the worst stuff was so bad that the media server and relay operators deleted it. I've been asked numerous times to show evidence and each person who asks acts like they're the first one to ask. Check the reports. 🤙
offense is the best defense just quote post them and watch the pile in
So your solution to fight harassment is to... engage with harassers. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
nope, just to make it public directly i don't have many problems with trolls at all, i am building a reputation as a bulldog
i rarely have more than 6 exchanges with scammers on chats elsewhere either before they are mad because i'm provoking them
I don't even know where to look for the reports, but I can do that. Again, please don't be disingenuous here. 1. I purposely do not go seeking out people to prove anything to me, for the very reason that this would be labelled as a form of harassment. 2. I stated I have seen people asking before, and being ignored. Verify, don't trust, innit? What I consider some being a dick someone else may consider harassment. But nothing that has ever show up in my feeds would fall into that category for me, which is exactly why I have asked in the past.
Here's one of the few images, that didn't get deleted, yet. He has a whole series, with different npub's faces, that he drops in their replies. I guess it's supposed to be an advertisement, but I took it badly. 🥴 Delete the space, to see the note. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqzxl89xsqn0zeznl5f7nrzjs696ynkg58dycytpm z5mehgygatavqqs98lwk65p20994u3udlqzmjkjga7n4aa5tuer2amylgfdgx8gatkqe4gg0x
I knew I could count on you to come through with this. I added a report too. That particular account has only replied to 3 other accounts, so maybe they are more active on their alts. It may be that some of these are already hidden by the time I see them, so I don't end up seeing them at all. My overarching point is that improving tools for individuals would be a better approach to dealing with these accounts rather than blanket bots which affect the rest of the ecosystem. Defaulting to not displaying images in replies unless you follow that account, hiding responses with certain keywords that you can control by default, and so on. If I ignore them they will eventually lose interest because they are seeking a reaction.
We're building such things, but the bot is what he built and everyone is free to subscribe to it or block it. I don't ever see the bot. If we can't stop the enterprising chap who starts marketing Girls of Nostr Gone Wild deepfakes, then other people can't stop the bot that labels those deepfakes. Censorship resistance cuts both ways. 🤷♀️ We all have to just mute and deal with it.
How can you claim to being harassed when you are the one seeking to classify other peoples content and you’re not even in this thread to begin with? Only Rabble’s ideology could open a Pandora’s box this stupid.
Agreed. I have un-muted people on the bird app. For me Block means permanent, mute means that I am annoyed but I would like to follow them later. Or even better, a time-based mute. Nostr should give choices.
Time-based mute is truly based https://i.nostr.build/Ge5Rk.jpg
No one needs your permission to implement anti-harrassment features on Nostr.
How does it relate to me? There is already anti harrasmant feature! Its called mute button
Muting may not be good enough for some folks, harassment exists and using NIP-56 (1984 event type is the basis of the feature you originally commented about) can help users curate a safer experience for their community. 1984 event types are subjective, so users can all make their own decisions about how they consider them, if at all.
Sorry, if “muting is not enough” for some people then they should learn how to make it enough. It works. Designing censorship on here, labeling everyone, reporting, etc is the way to recreate twitter or other like-kind centralized social media.
it's straight up censorship by adult children because they know best... ummm nope
censoring on open protocols is impractical
💯
these people divide the world into good and bad in their own infantile image. they are divorced from reality. #endsocialmarxism #gaysagainstwokeism
Free speech is also the ability to say you dont like something.
ignore it or make it pay for your attention
Read the thread. It contains some very valuable exchanges of arguments! nostr:nevent1qqsd32qf94vwyzk9r0ujc3wayx4lhcyzymxulsd25anlruulju5437cpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsygq4wlj9n8w3pjrrfx878sstmq42ltuznfv4e6putnu2cdrr2vdsnvpsgqqqqqqsxc57a4
