Oddbean new post about login | logout wallet of satoshi is a closed source custodial bitcoin wallet that many bitcoiners have installed on their phones with camera and clipboard permissions, most new bitcoiners throughout the developing world use it, and the overwhelming majority of nostr users in my mind there are only three possible scenarios for WoS: rug, shotgun kyc, or deliberate honeypot
open source and verified is the only chance we have. otherwise not if but when somebody steals ur SATs.
Using computer versions for ordinals showed me how much of a barrier to entry there is when it comes to easy adoption by the public. Wos offers an easy entry but does not offer self custody (based on what I’ve seen so far with zaps). Is there any known way for normies to get into this without having to sacrifice their sovereignty? It seems like a skill tree that needs to be experienced to understand and avoid becoming prey to the sophisticated users with ill intent.
phoenix wallet
Sooner or later we will find the answer
To what? #MRC
What solution/ alternative do you recommend?
they earn a shitload on routing fees. I think a good solution for now is that realiable noderunners onboard their family to lightning through their own node and be their custodian. All those on the fly non custodial lightning providers charge / have to charge a lot for hosting/opening a channel due to fees right now.
Noobs, if you are using wos, move to @OpenSecret Its effortless. Really impressed with it so far. Hopefully, wos users can afford LSP channel open fees.
Never put more in WoS than you would in your real wallet/purse when going out for a drink.
You’re missing the entire point.
Please explain it like I’m thick.
everyone should ONLY keep ***"whatever they can afford to lose"*** in non-custodial wallet - same is valid point for people in or outside nostr if anyone getting 100K zaps per day average need to really think custodial node.
I have 3btc on my WOS, do you think I should move it to my coinbase?
lol u wanna move your chicken piece from a fox's mouth to a lion's mouth - makes no difference either u r joking - for waiting armbendstrong rugpull install bluewallet in your mobile ADD wallet choose MAINNET then do LN-> mainnet swap using deezy.io or boltz.exchange move 2.88BTC from WOS to Blue-wallet selfcustody mainnet
non-tech users getting too much ZAPs just move it mainnet or other custodial wallet
Yesss! Life doesn’t have to be hard.✌️
and now they're supercharging adoption with 1 yr of referral revshare just adding more fuel for that fateful day of ruggening.
Yep!
If they rug, we will bring back the guillotine.
Zapping you from my WoS 🙈😂🤣 Seriously though, 2023 has been the year of learning for me, from getting clued up on btc, Nostr, setting up a business, learning heaps of new tech... When I set up wos I didn't want to but I did it, as a temporary solution, bc I had info overload and everyone kept saying "just do WoS, it's simple". I wasn't comfortable with it but did it bc it was a no-brainer. I knew I was going for convenience and would end up having to revisit. I don't keep much on it though, just enough for zaps on Nostr.
rug seems unlikely, i only use it cos i only have pocket change in it, i'd say this is common, they charge like wounded bulls on submarine swaps out - last time i used this i was stung 14000 sats, literally couldn't do it, just zapped it into my xapo and that was that. shotgun kyc, idk, they'd probably lose too many customers, and honeypot, well, jesus i'm just setting up a mysql container inside a VM on my machine just now and fastly.com IP address appears in the netstat. no idea - maybe mysql dialing home to do telemetry? point being that you wouldn't believe how much telemetry is going on everywhere. arch linux pacman dials home by default, for example. i'm seriously gonna migrate my whole stack to freebsd in the near future and lock down the firewall hard and keep track of every incursion ip address and start looking into who these people are.
WoS should be considered to have comparable security to the mesh pockets in the waistband of bathing suits. Could the $5 bill I put in there get swept out to sea? Yes. But I might want a sno-cone, and taking the risk is worth it. Knowing the risk is indeed important.
Is it an issue if you only use it for tiny amounts ? I never have more than 20 or 30$ in my WOS
What do you recommend? Mash ok? Breez? Blixt?
phoenix
@Wallet of Satoshi is there a fourth possible scenario here and are you permitted to tell us?
I get that and I agree with that. What's the easiest, friendliest non custodial lightning solution around? nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynspz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzqpxfzhdwlm3cx9l6wdzyft8w8y9gy607tqgtyfq7tekaxs7lhmxfqvzqqqqqqya0vgx6
My guess was that it is run by a chain analysis company.
The one i believe you’re missing is the obvious one which is that WoS is run by a OG bitcoiner seeking to make Lightning accessible with the simplest wallet UI/UX .. which they’ve nailed I’m not downplaying the tradeoffs here but pushing back on the malevolent actor BS
What's his name?
Daniel Alexiuc
What the actual fuck @nobody
Sounds vaccinated
6 times
As someone wise once said, build first, talk about it later. WoS built software that's popular with Bitcoiners & newbies alike. They've figured out a revenue model that seems ethical. Don't store your savings with custodians. Use some entropy with your password manager & don't store your keys in it.
So should we remove it ? What do you advice ?
Self custody is always @ODELL’s advice. Always.
Can I get zapped directly to cold storage?
There are so many good alternatives to full-custodial WoS now for those who don't want to manage their own node. For one there's @OpenSecret and @ZEUS is coming out with their node-in-your-phone implementation imminently. nostr:note126egz0ay4yzgskx23a886cf3d2ay6j3c7fx24hwegssapc57cf8qkqjzxy
I don't think so. All of us are building on top of Bitcoin. It is good for the space, for the Internet Money, specially on the early stage.
As a developer who does things with bitcoin in good faith, I understand and agree, but it discourages
Think about if most internet products integrate Bitcoin! What is the most frequently use in daily life? It's not the matter about custody and non-custodial. It is about the application level.
is an exchange, which allows everything from bitcoin to other scenes... and other less maxi scenes. http://cesc.trade/u/kimico?amount=10 I understand that educating people is the main task, but... I just want to code. (y i can add - more - shitcoins)
#asknostr What’s the best way to send MAX amount from Wallet of Satoshi? I’m often going back and forth trying to work around this error. https://nostrcheck.me/media/public/3d84c591cd4d2f95289af8144803347319cbaf269973eb1d26e125a9f06932a5.webp nostr:note126egz0ay4yzgskx23a886cf3d2ay6j3c7fx24hwegssapc57cf8qkqjzxy
Australia has become a testing ground for surveillance tech- that often gets exported to the west. See the recent introduction of the digital id- for verifying your identity online.
Only way to get rid of this suspicion is hosting LN server on our own. Any app can have backdoors. Bitcoin teached us to trust no one and be your own bank. Maybe we can't completely switch to self hosted wallets but at least everybody can store big chunk of Bitcoin in their cold wallet/paper wallet and use LN wallets as a tipping/daily using money source. For me, 50$ is enough portion to keep in LN wallet.
I wish there was app that was self custodial that could recieve bitcoin even if my phone is OFF
lightning
Zeus has solved for this with their embedded node mobile wallet and zaplocker 🤙
how do i do it. I dowloaded the app from their site withlut and ir only shows the screen tl connwct to lightning node
Hi! What mobile wallet do you or anybody recommend?
I have WoS, but leaving it and staying with Bitlifi.
I didn’t know that one. I’ll check it out 👍
Well it's still for hundreds in sats. Otherwise cold storage, in our case it's Trezor.
This reminds me of those baptist street preachers that hold up signs saying your going to hell but don't tell you how to get to heaven. Calling out custodial wallets is step 1, but now you've used your influence to all but make yourself responsible for step 2, giving people the means to smoothly move from egypt to the promise land. nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynsppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgrqsqqqqqpaam87f
Are you aware of bitcoin park? Ten31? The guides he’s put out over the years to help newbies get on boarded to proper self-custodial wallets? The amount of events he’s organized with the goal of teaching people how to use self-custodial bitcoin wallet properly and privately? How he’s been screaming this from the rooftops for 4+ years? @ODELL has done more for “step 2” than anyone I know. God Bless him.
No idea, but i appreciate the humbling correction. If i look these up, i assume id find these resources?
Yes, he’s built/done everything out in the open. Also, add OpenSats to that list. Non-profit he helped create to raise funding for free and open source software and freedom tech (mostly bitcoin and some nostr).
His site: https://odell.xyz
Why not all three? https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o7aTtzyBVUQn7PzDa/giphy.gif
Way too many people using closed source apps with permissions to almost anything. Better UX around foss apps is desperately needed to raise the average user's opsec. I'm working on it nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynspzemhxue69uhkummnw3ezumtfd3hh2tnvdakz7qghwaehxw309ae8xumvv9ujumn0wd68ytnwv46z7qgmwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3exjcmgv4ejummjvuhsz9rhwden5te0wfjkcctev93xcefwdaexwtcpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9uq3xamnwvaz7tm0venxx6rpd9hzuur4vghszxthwden5te0wajkccm0d4jjumn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgmwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3e8qmr9vfejucm0d5hsz8rhwden5te0wfjkccte9e3xjarrda5kuurpwf4jucm0d5hs0kyl28
Which wallet to use if not WoS?
Which is why I only keep <$100 on it. It trumps all others for speed and convenience. But like much of the internet, all that functionality comes at the expense of privacy and security.
I use it for small amounts as part of getting in the habit of using sats. I think that has some merit as a bridge or learning step.
"Could “they” @Wallet of Satoshi be OG stand up, making a good profit from a good product/service?" Yes, they could, but surely that would not be the warning. Every scam could be stand up, right? #Bitcoin #LightningNetwork $comment nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynsprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnrdakjuct4qgsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgrqsqqqqqpcdzy88
What's everyone using then?
There are many, I use a few including WOS. Zeus and Phoenix run a node on your phone I know you have the Start9 setup so if you want to run a channel you have way more options
Cheers Landy, I also use Phoenix but have heard some negative things about them lately. Will definitely look into Zeus, thanks.
I haven’t heard anything about Phoenix so I’d be interested in that. If you’re on iOS you can get the Zeus TestFlight from their profile
I read something on here about Phoenix sharing information, I can't find the original post. Probably nothing to worry about. Cheers for the node advice, I'm not on IOS for the Zeus option unfortunately.
Zeus is on android too, it just doesn’t have a full iOS build yet https://zeusln.app/ That’s for the info on Phoenix, I’ll check it out
Because of you I went to Phoenix 🫡
Mate, this is bullshit.. @Wallet of Satoshi have done more for onboarding than anyone. Yes, everyone should run a node, have a hardware wallet and eventually open their own ⚡ channels.. that doesn't happen overnight though.
Then what role does Nostr play in this? And lightning & zaps? The only reason many, a huge majority, of people even knew about WoS was because of Nostr & ease of zaps etc. Lightning is just not user friendly and they made it EXTREMELY simple.
