wallet of satoshi is a closed source custodial bitcoin wallet that many bitcoiners have installed on their phones with camera and clipboard permissions, most new bitcoiners throughout the developing world use it, and the overwhelming majority of nostr users

in my mind there are only three possible scenarios for WoS: rug, shotgun kyc, or deliberate honeypot


None of those sound like good options.


open source and verified is the only chance we have. otherwise not if but when somebody steals ur SATs.


Using computer versions for ordinals showed me how much of a barrier to entry there is when it comes to easy adoption by the public. Wos offers an easy entry but does not offer self custody (based on what I’ve seen so far with zaps). Is there any known way for normies to get into this without having to sacrifice their sovereignty? It seems like a skill tree that needs to be experienced to understand and avoid becoming prey to the sophisticated users with ill intent.


Sooner or later we will find the answer


To what?

#MRC


What solution/ alternative do you recommend?


:OMEGALUL:


What's a good alternative?


Thankful for Mutiny 🙏 working on getting mine setup today. Thank you Odell for always being the voice of reason


what would you suggest to someone with it?

contact them and ask to be removed from their servers? or has the damage been done?


they earn a shitload on routing fees. I think a good solution for now is that realiable noderunners onboard their family to lightning through their own node and be their custodian.
All those on the fly non custodial lightning providers charge / have to charge a lot for hosting/opening a channel due to fees right now.


Noobs, if you are using wos, move to nostr:npub1mutnyacc9uc4t5mmxvpprwsauj5p2qxq95v4a9j0jxl8wnkfvuyque23vg
Its effortless.

Really impressed with it so far. Hopefully, wos users can afford LSP channel open fees.


Never put more in WoS than you would in your real wallet/purse when going out for a drink.


You’re missing the entire point.


everyone should ONLY keep ***"whatever they can afford to lose"*** in non-custodial wallet - same is valid point for people in or outside nostr
if anyone getting 100K zaps per day average need to really think custodial node.


EXACTLY THIS is POINT 100%


non-tech users getting too much ZAPs just move it mainnet or other custodial wallet


and now they're supercharging adoption with 1 yr of referral revshare just adding more fuel for that fateful day of ruggening.


Yep!


Never put more in WoS than you would in your real wallet/purse when going out for a drink and asking  a random stranger in Australia to hold your real wallet/purse for you.


If they rug, we will bring back the guillotine.


Zapping you from my WoS 🙈😂🤣
Seriously though, 2023 has been the year of learning for me, from getting clued up on btc, Nostr, setting up a business, learning heaps of new tech... When I set up wos I didn't want to but I did it, as a temporary solution, bc I had info overload and everyone kept saying "just do WoS, it's simple". I wasn't comfortable with it but did it bc it was a no-brainer. I knew I was going for convenience and would end up having to revisit. I don't keep much on it though, just enough for zaps on Nostr.


rug seems unlikely, i only use it cos i only have pocket change in it, i'd say this is common, they charge like wounded bulls on submarine swaps out - last time i used this i was stung 14000 sats, literally couldn't do it, just zapped it into my xapo and that was that.

shotgun kyc, idk, they'd probably lose too many customers, and honeypot, well, jesus i'm just setting up a mysql container inside a VM on my machine just now and fastly.com IP address appears in the netstat. no idea - maybe mysql dialing home to do telemetry?

point being that you wouldn't believe how much telemetry is going on everywhere. arch linux pacman dials home by default, for example. i'm seriously gonna migrate my whole stack to freebsd in the near future and lock down the firewall hard and keep track of every incursion ip address and start looking into who these people are.


WoS should be considered to have comparable security to the mesh pockets in the waistband of bathing suits.

Could the $5 bill I put in there get swept out to sea? Yes. But I might want a sno-cone, and taking the risk is worth it.

Knowing the risk is indeed important.


What’s a secure non-custodial Lightning option?


wallet of satoshi is a closed source custodial bitcoin wallet that many bitcoiners have installed on their phones with camera and clipboard permissions, most new bitcoiners throughout the developing world use it, and the overwhelming majority of nostr users

in my mind there are only three possible scenarios for WoS: rug, shotgun kyc, or deliberate honeypot


Not gonna lie, I never liked the name "Wallet of Satoshi". Something about it sounds self-important and sus af


Money shouldn't be controlled by a group of people nor should our wallets.


I would connect something else if I knew how.


much better.

nostr:note126egz0ay4yzgskx23a886cf3d2ay6j3c7fx24hwegssapc57cf8qkqjzxy


Phoenix , zeus , muun, mutiny


Is it an issue if you only use it for tiny amounts ? I never have more than 20 or 30$ in my WOS


Unpopular opinion here, but are their claims of making money through fees on on-chain transactions that far fetched?


Delete WoF.


And let’s not overlook the fourth option, the pièce de résistance – it might just blossom into a unicorn, proving cynics wrong by sheer, improbable magic! 😆

With options like these, who needs a lottery ticket?


I’ll take “rug” for 1000, Alex


Please explain it like I’m thick.


Always prioritize self-custody solution.


What do you recommend? Mash ok? Breez? Blixt?


phoenix


nostr:npub1hcwcj72tlyk7thtyc8nq763vwrq5p2avnyeyrrlwxrzuvdl7j3usj4h9rq is there a fourth possible scenario here and are you permitted to tell us?


I get that and I agree with that.
What's the easiest, friendliest non custodial lightning solution around?

nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynspz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzqpxfzhdwlm3cx9l6wdzyft8w8y9gy607tqgtyfq7tekaxs7lhmxfqvzqqqqqqya0vgx6


My guess was that it is run by a chain analysis company.


phoenix wallet


The one i believe you’re missing is the obvious one which is that WoS is run by a OG bitcoiner seeking to make Lightning accessible with the simplest wallet UI/UX .. which they’ve nailed

I’m not downplaying the tradeoffs here but pushing back on the malevolent actor BS


CAPS is bringing the fire today!


Pain is the best teacher but also I do appreciate Wallet Of Satoshi as a pocket cash type lightning wallet great for zapping around small amounts or for merchants in my area who want sats for coffee/ food


scary


So should we remove it ? What do you advice ?


I put my sats out of WOS when I read something similar 👀


wallet of satoshi is a closed source custodial bitcoin wallet that many bitcoiners have installed on their phones with camera and clipboard permissions, most new bitcoiners throughout the developing world use it, and the overwhelming majority of nostr users

in my mind there are only three possible scenarios for WoS: rug, shotgun kyc, or deliberate honeypot


From: nostr:npub1r0cdkzjzx3krn34q6u8jahgvnecsgu2ejhyyr4dy36dl4q6z9rusny0re9


There are so many good alternatives to full-custodial WoS now for those who don't want to manage their own node. For one there's nostr:npub1mutnyacc9uc4t5mmxvpprwsauj5p2qxq95v4a9j0jxl8wnkfvuyque23vg and nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5 is coming out with their node-in-your-phone implementation imminently.

nostr:note126egz0ay4yzgskx23a886cf3d2ay6j3c7fx24hwegssapc57cf8qkqjzxy


REMINDER :

nostr:note126egz0ay4yzgskx23a886cf3d2ay6j3c7fx24hwegssapc57cf8qkqjzxy


I don't think so. All of us are building on top of Bitcoin. It is good for the space, for the Internet Money, specially on the early stage.


What's his name?


What LN wallet provider seems to provide 99.9% uptime and prove that LN is actually feasible for Bitcoin? Because nothing else seems to give me an experience that simply "works". Through zapathons especially...


As a developer who does things with bitcoin in good faith, I understand and agree, but it discourages


Daniel Alexiuc


Yesss! Life doesn’t have to be hard.✌


#asknostr What’s the best way to send MAX amount from Wallet of Satoshi? I’m often going back and forth trying to work around this error.
https://nostrcheck.me/media/public/3d84c591cd4d2f95289af8144803347319cbaf269973eb1d26e125a9f06932a5.webp
nostr:note126egz0ay4yzgskx23a886cf3d2ay6j3c7fx24hwegssapc57cf8qkqjzxy


Self custody is always nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx’s advice.
Always.


Australia has become a testing ground for surveillance tech- that often gets exported to the west. See the recent introduction of the digital id- for verifying your identity online.


Phoenix Wallet is a great Lightning wallet that allows you to self custody.  Easy to use.


Think about if most internet products integrate Bitcoin! What is the most frequently use in daily life?  It's not the matter about custody and non-custodial. It is about the application level.


Now do half the Nostr clients...
nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynspzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygqyey2a4mlw8qchlfe5g39vacus4qnflevppv3yre0xm56rm7lveypsgqqqqqqsaz6f38


Only way to get rid of this suspicion is hosting LN server on our own. Any app can have backdoors. Bitcoin teached us to trust no one and be your own bank. Maybe we can't completely switch to self hosted wallets but at least everybody can store big chunk of Bitcoin in their cold wallet/paper wallet and use LN wallets as a tipping/daily using money source. For me, 50$ is enough portion to keep in LN wallet.


Can I get zapped directly to cold storage?


I wish there was app that was self custodial that could recieve bitcoin even if my phone is OFF


Hi! What mobile wallet do you or anybody recommend?


lightning


As someone wise once said, build first, talk about it later.

WoS built software that's popular with Bitcoiners & newbies alike.

They've figured out a revenue model that seems ethical.

Don't store your savings with custodians.

Use some entropy with your password manager & don't store your keys in it.


wallet of satoshi is a closed source custodial bitcoin wallet that many bitcoiners have installed on their phones with camera and clipboard permissions, most new bitcoiners throughout the developing world use it, and the overwhelming majority of nostr users

in my mind there are only three possible scenarios for WoS: rug, shotgun kyc, or deliberate honeypot


This reminds me of those baptist street preachers that hold up signs saying your going to hell but don't tell you how to get to heaven.

Calling out custodial wallets is step 1, but now you've used your influence to all but make yourself responsible for step 2, giving people the means to smoothly move from egypt to the promise land.

nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynsppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgrqsqqqqqpaam87f


From my limited knowledge, not yet


"Not yet." The most bitcoin thing ever. 💪


TBH I’ve been feeling this for a few years now. I don’t have much on it as it’s just one of the wallets I use when showing friends how easy things are, but yeah this thought has been in the back of my mind for some time now.


I have WoS, but leaving it and staying with Bitlifi.


Why not all three? https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o7aTtzyBVUQn7PzDa/giphy.gif


Are you aware of bitcoin park? Ten31? The guides he’s put out over the years to help newbies get on boarded to proper self-custodial wallets? The amount of events he’s organized with the goal of teaching people how to use self-custodial bitcoin wallet properly and privately? How he’s been screaming this from the rooftops for 4+ years?

nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx has done more for “step 2” than anyone I know. God Bless him.


No idea, but i appreciate the humbling correction. If i look these up, i assume id find these resources?


Yes, he’s built/done everything out in the open.

Also, add OpenSats to that list. Non-profit he helped create to raise funding for free and open source software and freedom tech (mostly bitcoin and some nostr).


His site: https://odell.xyz


Way too many people using closed source apps with permissions to almost anything.

Better UX around foss apps is desperately needed to raise the average user's opsec. I'm working on it

nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynspzemhxue69uhkummnw3ezumtfd3hh2tnvdakz7qghwaehxw309ae8xumvv9ujumn0wd68ytnwv46z7qgmwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3exjcmgv4ejummjvuhsz9rhwden5te0wfjkcctev93xcefwdaexwtcpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9uq3xamnwvaz7tm0venxx6rpd9hzuur4vghszxthwden5te0wajkccm0d4jjumn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgmwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3e8qmr9vfejucm0d5hsz8rhwden5te0wfjkccte9e3xjarrda5kuurpwf4jucm0d5hs0kyl28


Which wallet to use if not WoS?


I didn’t know that one. I’ll check it out 👍


GE


What are your thoughts on Muun?


What is the solution?


I have 3btc on my WOS, do you think I should move it to my coinbase?


With Mutiny, do I need to run  a LN nodey node?


Zeus has solved for this with their embedded node mobile wallet and zaplocker 🤙


lol  u wanna move your chicken piece from a fox's mouth to a lion's mouth - makes no difference
either u r joking - for waiting armbendstrong rugpull

install bluewallet in your mobile
ADD wallet choose MAINNET
then do LN-> mainnet swap using deezy.io or boltz.exchange move 2.88BTC from WOS to Blue-wallet selfcustody mainnet


how do i do it. I dowloaded the app from their site withlut and ir only shows the screen tl connwct to lightning node


Which is why I only keep <$100 on it.  It trumps all others for speed and convenience. But like much of the internet, all that functionality comes at the expense of privacy and security.


PSA: these are also the only possible scenarios for a fedimint

We need dynamic, annonymous, sybill resistant, and incentive aligned custodian federations ASAP.


wallet of satoshi is a closed source custodial bitcoin wallet that many bitcoiners have installed on their phones with camera and clipboard permissions, most new bitcoiners throughout the developing world use it, and the overwhelming majority of nostr users

in my mind there are only three possible scenarios for WoS: rug, shotgun kyc, or deliberate honeypot


It’s not your point, but why MySQL over MariaDB?


I use it for small amounts as part of getting in the habit of using sats. I think that has some merit as a bridge or learning step.


"Could “they” nostr:npub1hcwcj72tlyk7thtyc8nq763vwrq5p2avnyeyrrlwxrzuvdl7j3usj4h9rq be OG stand up, making a good profit from a good product/service?"

Yes, they could, but surely that would not be the warning. Every scam could be stand up, right?

#Bitcoin #LightningNetwork $comment nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynsprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnrdakjuct4qgsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgrqsqqqqqpcdzy88


Well it's still for hundreds in sats. Otherwise cold storage, in our case it's Trezor.


Thank you I’m just looking for a secure mobile wallet.


It's fine fore small amounts. Don't worry, be happy!


Fuck! How did it get this wide currency!!!


What the actual fuck nostr:npub1m6j3f987ck286f72vkdh8hfgrl6mmw3l386a5xth5uc66rpzuujsrxn2v4


Never trust a custodian. Fuck wallet of Satoshi. Its depressing how many "Bitcoiners" use it and Justify it with bullshit statements like "Oh I'm only keeping pocket change in there, it doesn't matter."


Never trust a custodian. Fuck Wallet of Satoshi.

nostr:nevent1qqs9dv5p87j2jpygtr9g7nnavyck4wjdfgu0yn92mhv5ggwsu20vynsprdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujummjv9hxwetsd9kxctnyv4mz7q3qqny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysxpqqqqqqzt5rfhw


What's everyone using then?


Two questions, do they make any money from transaction fees? On IOS what do you recommend to replace it. I’ve seen Zeus and Phoenix to be decent?


There are many, I use a few including WOS. Zeus and Phoenix run a node on your phone

I know you have the Start9 setup so if you want to run a channel you have way more options


Cheers Landy, I also use Phoenix but have heard some negative things about them lately. Will definitely look into Zeus, thanks.


I haven’t heard anything about Phoenix so I’d be interested in that. If you’re on iOS you can get the Zeus TestFlight from their profile


is an exchange, which allows everything from bitcoin to other scenes... and other less maxi scenes.
http://cesc.trade/u/kimico?amount=10

I understand that educating people is the main task, but... I just want to code.

(y i can add - more - shitcoins)


nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5 offers a self custodial lightning address using nostr


Its more of an issue when tens of thousands of people each put 20$ worth of sats into it.

It also means you arent supporting non custodial wallets and their development.


I hope its a joke. But just in case, that crazy amount needs to go into cold storage. I would really think about how to secure that and it wouldnt be in any hot wallet, custodial or not.


wallet of satoshi is a closed source custodial bitcoin wallet that many bitcoiners have installed on their phones with camera and clipboard permissions, most new bitcoiners throughout the developing world use it, and the overwhelming majority of nostr users

in my mind there are only three possible scenarios for WoS: rug, shotgun kyc, or deliberate honeypot


Because of you I went to Phoenix 🫡


I read something on here about Phoenix sharing information, I can't find the original post. Probably nothing to worry about.
Cheers for the node advice, I'm not on IOS for the Zeus option unfortunately.


Zeus is on android too, it just doesn’t have a full iOS build yet

https://zeusln.app/

That’s for the info on Phoenix, I’ll check it out


Mate, this is bullshit..

nostr:npub1hcwcj72tlyk7thtyc8nq763vwrq5p2avnyeyrrlwxrzuvdl7j3usj4h9rq have done more for onboarding than anyone.

Yes, everyone should run a node, have a hardware wallet and eventually open their own ⚡ channels.. that doesn't happen overnight though.


Sounds vaccinated


6 times


Then what role does Nostr play in this?  And lightning & zaps?

The only reason many, a huge majority, of people even knew about WoS was because of Nostr & ease of zaps etc.  Lightning is just not user friendly and they made it EXTREMELY simple.