Oddbean new post about login | logout Well, whatever. Seems to be less and less point to post anything on here, if you're not one of these gigantic accounts.
I wonder how people would respond if I just posted "Can we please stop talking about Bitcoin? We're well aware of its existence."
They'd mute you. 😂 Learn from my experience.
I am sorry for screwing with the Bitcoin filters
a lot of people here want bitcointwitter2, and they have it. The rest of us have to suffer through it lolol. Or, ironically, you can actually just use twitter and see far less or no bitcoin chatter. I'm strictly non-nostr-only, for the sake of sanity. I also suspect most people aren't nostr-only cos they regurgitate bitcointwitter talking points and 'memes'. I haven't even looked at bitcointwiter but I know it is chockablock with incredibly unfunny crypto anarchist 'memes'. We are just an offshoot of bt. Sad, innit. Why is the nostr retention rate so bad?? The mystery remains unsolved.
>I also suspect most people aren't nostr-only ... I think there are more reasons. Because nostr doesn't give them enough stimulation high they need from other algo platforms that can be more predictable. Proud to say I've never used twatter but I can imagine the desire, that and most other big-tech platforms. They leave because the overlords do something they don't like but quickly forget when things over here don't stimulate their addiction enough. That and the whole what are the odds it'll be me that gets banned or whatever risk vs. reward cycle. I'm also a very light social user, maybe like 30 mins/day besides chatting with our team.
I think the 'people use twitter because they're addicted' can be a bit disingenuous, people on twitter also have meaningful interactions with people, there are communities there etc etc... (you know the things nostr aspires to). I'm not saying that the addiction / ragebait thing doesn't also exist, but that's not the whole picture.
> Because nostr doesn't give them enough stimulation high they need from other algo platforms that can be more predictable. I still stand firm on this however. The term addiction disregards there are social positive interactions that result in more stimulation. Yeah I think twitter probably has plenty of positive real world social capacity and germination. I don't mean to assume it's all unhealthy. I was a Facebook communities person, I made almost exclusively real-world connections personally and professionally. I'm arguing over the lack of commitment because of convenience, the urge to fall back to old habits when things "calm down". The people you mention are also likely not the people I'm targeting. Because the same could be said for why I'm here anyway.
I've never used Twitter either. Unless, you include clicking on links from nkstr posts to be using it. Also, I think it's a matter of ignorance, as well. Heavy centralized social media users may take a trip to nostr only to subconsciously refuse to acknowledge the realization that they don't need social media to be as big a part of their everyday lives as they imagined. It's sad, tbh. Nostr needs to have an abundance of clients in all markets if it wants to succeed.
The best thing about nostr is that it has probably made more people leave social media entirely
Those are my feels, lately. I like our eReader idea, but I'm increasingly aware of the fact that I suck at social media. It's a whole thing. Rule one of social media: always agree with whatever the richest man in the room is saying. Rule two of social media: always agree with whatever the second-richest man in the room is saying, unless it contradicts the first man.
Rule three: don't write snarky things like that. They don't like that. 😅
But that's pretty much all I do and I have a lot of fun!
They can all go flux theirselves if they don’t like us. Truly.
I've been told I'm not agreeable enough. Other girls are nicer. 🙄
I still use the Fediverse loads, never been into X or whatever. I keep going with this as technologically it’s interesting but those that have even heard of Nostr see it as right wing. I can only assume that means there’s more 0s than 1s in the code. I just want to be loved… lol
Fair enough, yeah. I rely on follows to share other fun pleb things so I can see whats going on out there. I remember looking at some of the other popular platforms after the whole Parlor thing and was like wow this is just bad. I'm sure they were overloaded with attack bot accounts to make it look worse than it was, but almost every reply to a post contained at least one racial slur. Now I'm a degenerate who can appreciate edgy stuff so it was kind of funny at first, but it was too much to want to be around. It was hard for the first few months to get a good follow list, but now I'm pretty happy although I'm sure I'm missing some fun stuff on occasion. It can be really overwhelming for new users.
one of the most interesting things about nostr is it makes a BIG difference to your experience who you follow that's why i only have like 108 or so... they give me a second level reach into other things that are interesting but too noisy or don't interest me often but when my follows respond to them they tend to be interesting
Yeah I'd like to get there too! Also I'm glad to be one of your 108 follows :) I should probably go for some pruning, I know I'm missing a lot of dev discussion I should be part of.
yeah, i think without any more devious methods of filtering stuff the best one is to pick good people to put replies into your feed and then if the replies are interesting they lead you to maybe something interesting, more often than not... i think my philosophy of nostr following is more respectful... helps me keep stuff out that would make me mad and gives me enough to keep it interesting enough i'm still overdoing it
So, in short the nostr "influencers" are killing nostr?
Hmm, it's more that the there are these mechanisms that fill the void of discovery. The mechanisms assume you have come from and want bitcointwitter. Clients recommend bitcointwitter people, people who post in that style, primal trending sidebar does the same. Follows are funnelled into these posters and posts with lots of likes appear as 'trending'. Replying or appealing to the tastes of these people is sometimes the only possibility of interaction smaller accounts have. The rent you pay to post can be seen as posting popular bitcointwitter slogans. Emulating bitcointwitter is rewarded in engagement and zaps. This is arguably worse than an algorithm lol. In terms of an obstacle to nostr's growth. (The most common complaint about nostr is that it's a bitcointwitter slogan chatroom). The most used clients are microblogging types, following accounts instead of topics. There are barely any topics to follow (besides bitcointwitter talking points, although Meshtastic and Permaculture are promising). Etc etc
It's a major problem, not really been solved. Retention is low and the only reliable place to recruit from is bitcointwitter. No one outside of bitcointwitter wants bitcointwitter as a social media (even some of bitcointwitter want more variety, which they find on wider twitter, not here). nostr:nevent1qqsx0e45zs9ken2yzhefmmyp09w9dnmgm4efszur2dgurxt8m73f6yszyzw2p0t52p6z663qxxwqu02vv7wfupr2nhrsarh4ts5stcjq2g6qkqcyqqq823cvyap7d
Yeah, they come here, post their Bitcoin meme stuff and then they go back to Twitter to have real conversations.
These two are right. We need to figure out ways to fix this. #nostr #bitcoin nostr:nevent1qqspg4hfw2mhk0h96w0jqgpvsmlsgdrf6fjmdlu7h08ak07l5ymec7cprdmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdakj7q3ql5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqsxpqqqqqqzldpjsm
*sigh*
I disagree. No need to fix anything but the basics yet. I really don't like this push to on board people to a broken system. It's dumb.
Yeah, too early for most people. Onboarding too early is burning potential users and then they leave and complain about Nostr to their friends.
i wont frens >=[
Same. When I left Twitter, it was for real. I left there for a reason and that reason hasn't changed.
yeah, it's a little disheartening at times to try and engage with non-bitcoin or non-nostr stuff.
it's my first time to hear meshtatic and permaculture, is that another nostr clients?
No Meshtastic is a type of radio technology thing, permaculture is like gardening and homesteading type thing, content/ smaller communities here. #meshtastic #permaculture
I do the like the cooking community. I've actually been using a fair amount of the recipes that I've found from nostr:nprofile1qqsrrxknu7gxxnd7smc5mwwzn9djdm3uvg5tu40cn3x8l656esqa2zspzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0guyv64. Thank you nostr:nprofile1qqsfhsknfhw6s0v59g0a6d48fple4tk8grdjf6newvkepcur6xwjjjqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgjwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxqgkwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejq6pne6f! I haven't focused as much as I'd like to on the gardening community. Thanks for the reminder!
nostr:nprofile1qqswgvmv65ja7706f5a0xe8ajcqdfvgdeeppt2jvx0kh06sggg6ykyqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qys8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytn9d9h82mny0fmkzmn6d9njuumsv93k2tcpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0v9ru2a 's voyage app is worth keeping an eye on. It's one of a very very few attempts at topic-follow rather than personality/npub follow. There was another WIP client which was heavily focused on forum-style, but forgotten the name. Things like this could help attract and keep people. Bitcoin posts and the general bitcointwitter chatroom posts wouldn't show up in unrelated topic forums, hopefully lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're just supposed to post stuff for your frens. Who cares about other "big accounts?" you're here. You have a core group of people that genuinely care about you. Does anything else really matter? 💚🫂
It's sad to watch, honestly.
Which part is sad?
"Nostr dev" complaining about reach and audience size, not understanding (or pretending not to) the nature of decentralized networks and their evolution and growth patterns.
Centralized or decentralized, the goal of a network is to reach people. That is the fundamental goal. If that is impaired, then there’s a fundamental problem and once again, the forest is missed for the trees.
nostr isn't a network. it's the definition of a protocol. you make the network. your friends make networks. communities make networks. even product teams make networks.
He's just here to trash me with some concern-trolling.
What is concern-trolling?
When you pretend to be sad, when you're actually just scornful.
You misunderstand my use of the word "sad" there. I meant it like "pathetic to see" as in, it makes ME sad to see it. I'm not concerned for you nor pretending to be.
Why do you think nostr is stuck in the influensoor loop? Lack of community relays? Algo? Carrying over twitter behavior?
"point"? If the "goal" is get as much attention as possible from the widest audience possible, then yea maybe you're right.
Not the widest audience, but the most receptive/interested audience, yes. Even hashtags don't really work, as they're so spammy and most people don't use them, and if everyone is only looking at the trending list, and you're not trending, then they literally don't see you (even if they follow you). Most of the users on here have never seen anything I've written. Since I often write about obscure/niche topics, this is a real problem. There's currently no way for me to just ask if there are other people who want to talk about Tibetan philosophy, or whatnot, because you have to see me asking to answer the question. Catch 22. I'm essentially "forced" to write about Bitcoin, in order to get more visibility, so that I can then ask the new followers, if they are also interested in Tibetan philosophy. It's algo-driven writing, basically, like the way people on Instagram were all obligated to have at least one BLM post, and then they had to have a #metoo post, and etc. I'm hoping relay-communities and better algos fix that, but the vote's still out.
I share the feeling. I don’t really know how to help either (other than following and engaging with your posts, of course). Every time I log in to Mastodon and find plenty of relevant niche content, plus a friendly, responsive community, my instinct is to just give up on Nostr and stop trying to improve things here. But then again, I remember how it felt back in the day when ActivityPub was just starting and how long it took to make it work for me (with no help from any algorithms). Personally, I like building things and think Nostr has potential. This is my intrinsic motivation—and boy, oh boy, the current state of Nostr requires a lot of intrinsic motivation. Yes, at the moment, Nostr is a BTC marketing ecosystem. Users are expected to chill BTC companies and products, while devs are often sponsored by BTC-related companies or receive grants paid in BTC. Nostr "influencer" accounts are, unsurprisingly, posting and enforcing mandated positivity towards BTC-related content. Nostr can and will be much more than just a second Twitter for bitcoiners, but it needs folks like you and me to stick around, run infrastructure on neutral grounds, build things, try experimental Nostr software (and actually get devs to troubleshoot their stuff for a change), post good content, and help build communities around the niche subjects we enjoy. In a couple of years, there's about a 99.99% chance that some of today's most popular Nostr "influencer" accounts will be jumping onto the "next big thing," often leaving a trail of destruction behind (and no, I’m not pointing fingers or bad-mouthing anyone). The beauty of open-source software is that it will become whatever the people who stick around and get their hands dirty decide it to be.
We need better DVM support, DVMs are a great content discovery tool, it's also a great way to start communities. Like someone may run a DVM for sports content, like F1 , Politics, Books and whatever they want.
Nostr isn't an automatic content discovery protocol. One must grow one's own social network orginically lest it be a cybernetic feedback hellscape.
I am not morally-opposed to content discovery. Without it, Nostr is just a high school redux, and don't nobody got time for that.
Nostr is a pretty good content discovery tool for BTC and Nostr things... 🤣 But I hope that folks got more than "content disxovery" from what I wrote above.
Lol can relate 😆 But I've been on the other side (100k+ followers on other media platforms in the past) and it's crazy nutso trying to keep up and I honestly would not wish it on anyone who wants to get things done in their life lol There IS a point...post what you want and only for what pleases you. The rest will fall into place.
As usual, your thoughts on this subject are systematically organized and rather extensive. I approach nostr from a very different perspective, so my expectations are framed in a manner that is completely different though in some ways complimentary.
Oh man I'm a dummy sorry. I was temporarily using voyage, which makes usernames a little harder to notice. I thought I was replying to this note: nostr:nevent1qqsvke7tnfsnrd807aj65sdy8evwrc3ym8mq5eu0yjlaq04qcqgskfcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygxwr0u6myskfhez0072k2qnry7xp66qy8f4ha9mh3h6ynzkp58naypsgqqqqqqsvd8zd4
And I thought "how could this guy have both of these thoughts at the same time?! This one here is the response to his other one!"
I'm glad I got to keep my consistency. Please let me know if you notice me failing on that. My plan is to always make it clear whenever I change my beliefs.
sarcasm is hard on the Internet.... is this sarcasm? I hope not?
And I thought "how could this guy have both of these thoughts at the same time?! This one here is the response to his other one!"
I'm glad I got to keep my consistency. Please let me know if you notice me failing on that. My plan is to always make it clear whenever I change my beliefs.
sarcasm is hard on the Internet.... is this sarcasm? I hope not?
I'm glad I got to keep my consistency. Please let me know if you notice me failing on that. My plan is to always make it clear whenever I change my beliefs.
sarcasm is hard on the Internet.... is this sarcasm? I hope not?
Not always, imo. Sometimes posting a note or comment is just a means of gathering information. It's that simple. I've observed many Nostr users who display this kind of behavior; and they're usually accounts with a relatively smaller follower count. The people who come here for the social aspect seem less active since I showed up nearly three months ago (yes, only three months). I think it's obvious that many are growing way too bored too quickly and are realizing that they don't need social media as much as they originally believed. That's a win, imo. Many are rediscovering the value of face-to-face interaction. Also, I've seen plenty of people say that nostr has no algorithm, yet, they fail to realize that they've all played a hand in making the "nostr algo." Nostr algo = block and ridicule anyone who notices and publicly calls out imperfections within both Bitcoin and the nostr protocol clients... and then whine about it. The topic of a person's reasoning behind their social media usage is evidently far more nuanced than I had originally believed. So my opinion may seem somewhat erroneous, but my personal belief is that nostr isn't a "good social media" (as I don't believe there is a truly good one) it's just the least worst. What Nostr DOES have the potential to be is the next INTERNET. That NEEDS to be the focus. nostr:nprofile1qqsfeg9aw3g8gtt2yqcecr3af3nee8syd2wuwr5w74wzjp0zgpfrgzcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qg3waehxw309ahx7um5wgh8w6twv5hsler5rm's opinion. nostr:nevent1qqsq40n2x2qtgyeznaw6mnqcupegeppqasxwx0rrl4fjppj9swx98wqprdmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdakj7q3qnjst6azswskk5gp3ns8r6nr8nj0qg65acu8gaa2u9yz7yszjxs9sxpqqqqqqzqdz2w8
They didn't leave social media. They just went to other platforms, or they mostly post elsewhere and just dip in here, sporadically. A lot probably even went back to X.
i guess it all comes down to how we define things — i still wonder how nostr will be defined; it's often presented as a social media. is that right? maybe it's not? or is it simply a form of communication, i.e. the internet? isn't communication the basis of social interaction? these questions become much too abstract for me lol anyway, thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response, as always~! ^^
They didn't leave social media. They just went to other platforms, or they mostly post elsewhere and just dip in here, sporadically. A lot probably even went back to X.
i guess it all comes down to how we define things — i still wonder how nostr will be defined; it's often presented as a social media. is that right? maybe it's not? or is it simply a form of communication, i.e. the internet? isn't communication the basis of social interaction? these questions become much too abstract for me lol anyway, thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response, as always~! ^^