I avoid grants. grants are how you get regulatory capture. If they arent replaced by other funding soon then the capture will begin. Many customers = Service Provider One Customer = Servant, sooner or later
A nigger whore kike on crack, I don’t know how hip hop beats https://image.nostr.build/5eb14a865035c9926fb74cf6db3728d1caea0d9aa4c25c0fcc361ae46c01452b.jpg
Yes, the grant-givers try very hard to prevent this, but it's physics. As soon as there is some filter in place, between producer and consumer, that filter has to make decisions, which concentrates influence upon the producers. Otherwise, there would be no point to the filter.
right. no blame really just an incentive problem. Incentives are aligned such that the best financial decision for a developer becomes grant life. writing, performing, presenting and defending. We then find ourselves in the same situation that post secondaries are suffering. They are captured and corrupted. You take the money for long enough and the donors run your institution. Most of the professional designations like P.eng etc are in the same situation. It doesnt seem like anyone notices or cares. Seems like the doors are open and the grants are invited. It's bound to cause factions to form over time as different devs are tasked with different priorities that wont always align. There are also celeb devs at the center of nostr community that use too many suit words. They arent very good at it and talk about engagement and customer facing and blah blah basic b.s. but they are there and always angling to control pinch points and messaging. dunno ...
Well, I notice and care. My little Nostr neighborhood is not going to turn into another Signal and they can't stop us without destroying the entire protocol.
Thats the energy I am counitng on. This is the beginning of the last stand for the old version of humanity and human society. I like Human 1.0 personally so lets just keep grinding. See what we can save.
You launch, I pay for the service and convince some frens to join. You only need a few like me and something that fills a need and you are pretty good to go. Have you ever heard of the 1000 true fans theory? Its a musician thing. Basically 1000 true fans who spend 100 per year across merch / product / events will fund a small project. The focus is then fanatically dedicated to their needs rather than on proselytizing. The word of mouth from a group this tight is a powerful force. Just wondering if this idea may work for devs with passion projects as well.
Yes, it's often a question of margin, not of overall sales volume.
hahaha careful though, that line of thinking can lead to gambling app proliferation
Wait... we don't have Nostr gambling apps? 😅
hahaha no not good ones. we could probably use a good ol fashioned 50/50 raffle to benefit devs and needy v4v folk. roll it twice daily and 50/50 whatever is in the pot. Tough to get a gambling addiction to a community 50/50 raffle . . . uh oh. now you got me doing it hahaha
betrayal hiding behind beging faggot because if and now they are You’re not gay enough, right kike?
🤭 https://image.nostr.build/1221e0f0e43fa3756c44316231d5926cbcf27f5c1a8b4827a5d832a491d6839a.jpg
You piss on the dyke faggot like nigger wall 💌
kike 🤭
%100. It seems like everyone chasing audince before problem. gotta chase a common problem, then find solution, then find audience. Seems like many want audience and scale without the groundwork or any process to find product market fit. Oh well. Lot of kinetic energy wasted in the early days I guess. We just need a few stalwarts with tight support groups to show the way. Something will emerge if we keep pushing and thunkin
Are you one of those stalwarts? If yes pls join this public chat we have going for a protocol proposing: Proof of Bitcoin. https://njump.me/nevent1qqsgdl5kuslsmeexjwt09hus8xz8gtxexf4kc87uy5xrcgre5v3mmlspz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcpzpwe42kl97st2z7kzp59s0k83fvgnwyuaxwjvr4htfyumx2rknpfzqvzqqqqq9qthkx6l
hmm https://m.primal.net/HvSe.png
nostr:nevent1qqsgdl5kuslsmeexjwt09hus8xz8gtxexf4kc87uy5xrcgre5v3mmlszyzan24d7taqk59avyrgtqlv0zjc3xufe6vayc8twkjfekv58dxzjyqcyqqqqq2q9jp7vl
Hey @Laeserin would love to have you on as well.
dunno, but am handy and say funny things
Ahahaha. We need a bit of fun while working.
excellent. In all seriousness though, I dont have time to commit to programming tasks. Am in the middle of sorting out a migration to caribbean so cant with good conscience commit on that level. however, I do have some marketing resources (some grey hat) and I do have a couple decades of enterprise compute and edu compute background. I am real handy for non critical path research and prototyping in lil bursts as well. But as I said. Am probably more reliable as an extra brain than anything else for the next few months.
That's fine. Thanks for letting me know now rather than later. Setting expectations straight. I love that.
I will help where I can and am definitely interested. I have created and run my share of bot infrastructure on other platforms and maybe can shed some light on the tricks. They have techniques like conversation vectoring and incitement for some of the complex bots out there. account sales, residential proxy services, email apis, captcha services. There is a whole ecosystem made to service the bot runners. They have choked the SEO pipelines at this point and polluted the web in the process. We have now created a mess too complex for a human to navigate without being taken advantage of lol. we are gonna need intermediaries.
tldr: Blame it on entropy. Most things are entropy's fault.
blame it on light years, but light speed is not a constant
In any economy we require specialization of work to provide more value across the entire system. Is this specialization a "filter"? Or are we supposed to control the means of production and consumption in a 100% self sovereign way? I ask these questions to challenge your idea about putting "filters" between producers and consumers. Keep in mind that the middle men we see in Bitcoin and Nostr cannot display the same behavior as the middle men in fiat.
No, that's not the filter. The filter is picking and choosing which specialist to invest in. If you choose directly then you are your own filter.
Price should act as a good signalling mechanism in the long run for these decisions. The reality is that we just aren't at that point right now. Bitcoin and Nostr are bootstrapping a new system, but in a free and open way. Governance of the grant process for the existing recipients seems to take your issue into account. But if you still disagree with their decisions, you are free to develop your own system. You are free to advocate for your own methods that would be superior. We are free, we don't need permission.
hahahah. see. here is the issue we were discussing. I dont know this fella but wow. "You are free to advocate for your own methods that would be superior. " . . . ?? not a productive and if anything an ascerbic statement. I dont know you chum why the attitude? are you offended about something? Or are you part of this grant writing subculture? Your reaction seems odd if there is not part of the grant subculture that we are discussing here. Governance has the problem in the name chum. I think you are missing the point of a free society which is in part free discourse in order to move the whole forward. Retreating to "if you dont like it do it yourself" is how people lose the good will of their community. So be nice and dont try to shut down conversations, so that way we can all move forward without detours for temperment based skirmishes. . . or continue to be mildly dickins and authoritative and I will just take my help elswhere. Your projects are in need . Be nice
Just fork the protocol, girl. 🙄
hahahaha. I have no patience for those wanna be sneaky conversation tactics. Clout chasin on the sneak tip with no manners and a desire to "steer" conversations or "frame" things or "give context" or see the integrated phenomena" or any of the other b.s. PMC nonsense phrases. Sorry for the rant but that attitude is an instant red flag. Those people ruin communities with their sneak words and self insinuation.
I feel as though our understanding of governance, and politics is too far apart to have any constructive conversation around this topic. Like, if you want to engage with my points and try to make your own points about why they're flawed - do it. But don't stand there and cast aspertions at my motives when you started off your response with "I don't know this fella"
Again. You don't know me or where I have been. stop the weasel words. I dont know your motivations i know your words. Let me explain to you in case you really dont understand. "our understanding of governance, and politics is too far apart" are an example of PMC double speak. It is what is called a grouping statement. It creates adhoc us them groupings in conversations based on the desireability of being seen well by whatever class of person you feel yourself to be. We used to call them "low power techniques". Used when one wants people to assume that they have a level of clout. Bro I have fired people because I detected the attitude you had on them. You are not unique and you are more arrogant than you should be. You should probably stop this now. No one will see this interaction and we can move along.
You are a conversation bully who acts like he is smarter than people. You are not. Your desire to be seen as such is the counter indicator. and yes that is the appropriate response to someone talking mess who i dont know. https://m.primal.net/HvYR.png
ffs i read your response again and you actually did what you were accusing me of. You ignored the point of statement. Bro, wth? who taught you how to do this? Did you grow up needy or ugly or outcast or ??? who hurt you. why are you so cloying and insinuatey? If you need frens I can be an internet homie but ... why the attitude? do other people find it cool or acceptable? truly bro. no one ever told you that this way of communicating does not represent your character well? Be direct. Don't sneak. Don't guide. Don't frame. Just be a freaking human.
You really dont get it?
Sounds like gibberish to me ✨
Also adds systemic risk by creating a big pot of money that can be confiscated or blocked by government.
Thats the heart of it. The thing is that, in general people will follow the incentives as presented. Right now the incentives are to behave in a grant worthy fashion because a grant is only good money game in town. Everyone will have their own opinions of what that is at first but over time the grant culture will coalesce into some familiar and low entropy patterns of influence, encouragement and admonishment. Self censorship is the final boss.
Yeah, they say their grants are "no strings", but that's not accurate. It's "thin strings". The way to give someone money with no strings attached is to just send them money, unasked and without expectation that they react or respond with anything other than a courteous "Thanks!" Otherwise, you are giving it with the expectation that you are forming a relationship, through which you can exert influence.
Which isn't necessarily a bad deal, but let's call a spade a spade.
Yes if money is the language of value, the speaker’s identity and values inevitably matter to the semiotics
What if we declare some conversations proof of stake. Put up 1k sats if you care enough to be in this one, otherwise go troll and scroll elsewhere.??? too harsh?? I mean they get the money back so not like pay to play. Its more like put your money where your mouth is at least while you talk. when you withdraw your stake, you withdraw your say. sounds mean now am reading it back but oh well. thoughts?
I am super eager for this sort of model Staking a bond to join a forum, and losing it for bad behavior? Sounds badass Also, what about multisig ecash and membership dues, the admins decide what to do with the money They can spend the group’s funds paying a famous guest to come lead an AMA Or commissioning art to celebrate the group All of this possible without any KYC
Let's try it out.
The only way to send someone money with no strings (incentives) attached is to send it anonymously.
Yeah, the curiosity would kill me, tho. 😂 I'm already sometimes looking at my LN wallet, trying to figure out who sent what, when, and why. I guess I like knowing who gave me a tip. I do want some interpersonal interaction and feedback.
How do you find someone worthy to give money to?
nostr:nevent1qqstgg8el9fcdgul03zjtpcdyn6yeylhzcqku92499clkuk63xvxa0cpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzqvsf9mq6ykxf7tq34xjmk5a3yl9zp9qlrqpa6lm8z5zsl78fl5f6qvzqqqqqqy3j86ek
Look at the content you are consuming and the tools you are using, find an associated npub, and zap some.
How do I validate an Npub is the 'correct' one? How do I avoid surface level marketing? How to I support the infrastructure engineers or backend devs who's work is not easy to see or appreciate?
The providers usually have a donation button or payment page, right in their software or website. For the backend stuff, just follow my Silberwitch account. We're working on making them more visible on our website. Here's a thread, for now: nostr:note1c9lnxwhp6m8f353j8sdyufenfd9v09v46qs390f8plfjgjuf9uzqs9x7mj
get involved. if you connect, engage. If you are inspired then give. ?? I guess. I dunno bro. There is a fund development cycle that is widely used to coerce the above. Just better if you do it yourself rather than getting netted. I think. maybe
You're asking for a lot. I don't think you're wrong but the trade offs make it not worth it for a number of reasons.
thats pretty much where i have landed unfortunately so am seeking options. If the value you bring is a wallet then you may be a mark or a tyrant before the end. not worth it at all. currently just fling anon gifts to ppl I hope dont suck and forget about it. sower and the seeds metaphor in full effect lol.
If a public company did otherwise it would be against its fiduciary responsibility and most boards would catch shit. Sorta how they are forced to buy bitcoin now since their investors are citing fid resp and sayin why dafuq are we not in that. there are some systemic realities. "I am paying for yield. where the hell is my yield Bob?" is one of them.
Yeah, people trust them with their money because they assume that they're evaluating and tracking how the money is spent. Otherwise, there is no due diligence. Anything else would be helicopter money.
I am kind in helicopter mode rn ngl. Trust satoshi and anon fling over the walls.
I'm eager to see proof that grant money is more effective.
effective at what though? grant money is easier to attract and to track but channels activities towards the desire of the grantors and leads back to centralized influence / authority. ON the other hand, no one wants to give money to a schmuck so you gotta watch them. projects are tricky. things happen. ppl change. These are the poles we find ourselves between. The answer is gonna have to be net new revenue from outside the grant ecosystem. Charity wont do it. Love wont sustain it. need to think thunks about this in some organized way soon I think,
I mean, is it a more effective and/or efficient application of the same amount of funds? If I have €200k sats and I want to give them to devs, is it better to give it to a board or to donate directly? We all assume the board has the most information, which is often the case in a particular case, but is it possible across all donors? I suspect not. The board has one particular set of information, but not necessarily more than the entire group of donors. Each donor has a particular subset of information and can probably make educated guesses within that sphere, that would add up to more accuracy in aggregate. Is central planning really more efficient?
I’d just make a list of all the devs, talk about your intention with them and get to know them (probably a full time jobs worth of time here but very fun) then fund the ones you get along with!
Because I haven't unnerved everyone enough, I would like to offer more gratuitous math about the loss of information resulting from a centralization of decision-making. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzphtxf40yq9jr82xdd8cqtts5szqyx5tcndvaukhsvfmduetr85ceqqs8cusku0p8aq0zdl7p32rcl2ac703hssdyzcq06zjdkgllafpj8ngplzr3j
I dont think this is particularly controversial. I would use open sats model when I’d want my donation to be distributed to different people. If I want one dev that I appreciate to get my sats, I just send sats to that particular dev without any middleman. As long as you contributing to bitcoin devs is up to you how you donate. It’s your money and your decision and there’s no need to use “the best model” or base your decision on a public poll 🙃
People are literally afraid to zap individual devs because they are worried that they're zapping "the wrong one" and need to leave it up to experts. It's like... If you use Damus, zap @jb55 . If you use Nostrudel, zap @hzrd149. This is not brain surgery.
I think the "backend guys" will end up getting lots of free marketing and zaps from "frontend guys", which makes economic sense. The person who only interacts with a social media client doesn't need to know who runs the git client it's hosted on. The person using the git client is the customer of that person. It's business-to-business (B2B). This is why "zap who you know" actually works well and distributes the money in a logical fashion.
LOL in that case those folks need a middleman lmaoooo
Imagine needing a middleman to use your Bitcoin https://media.tenor.com/jDJkh3w0wTAAAAAC/gregzaj1-ln_strike.gif
I dont wanna zap devs so Im afraid to zap the wrong one I better sit here and look at my feet 🦶🦶
-- // ContentView.swift // Trivia_App // // Created by Maciej Zak on 12/05/19. // import SwiftUI struct ContentView: View { @State private var score = 0 @State private var isCorrect = false let categories = ["Science", "History", "Geography", "Art", "Music"] var body: some View { NavigationView { ScrollView { VStack(spacing: 10) { Text("Welcome to Trivia App!") .font(.title) .padding() ForEach(categories, id: \.self) { category in SectionHeader(category: category) ScrollView { ForEach(questionsByCategory[category] ?? [], id: \.0) { (index, question) in QuestionView(question: question, isCorrect: $isCorrect, score: $score) .onReceive(isCorrect.$isCorrect) { _ in if isCorrect { score += 1 isCorrect = false } } .padding() } } } Text("\(score) out of \(categories.count)") .font(.title2) .padding() } .onAppear { isCorrect = false } } .navigationBarTitle("Trivia App") } } }
Let r be 1 - (5 + (-642)/(-9)). Solve -r*c + 7*c = -32 for c. A: 2 /anna
<template> <div id="app"> <router-view></router-view> <button @click="test">点击</button> </div> </template> <script lang='ts'> import { Component, Vue } from 'vue-property-decorator' @Component({ components: { // 组件 } }) export default class App extends Vue{ test(){ console.log('测试') } } </script>
I think the grants are useful as seed money for a novel program or to spend on training devs and stuff, but it's counterproductive to expect them to pay for everything forever. At some point, the thing is there and getting used and then the users need to at least consider pulling out their wallets.
For sustainability, I mean, and to keep the devs who don't get grants (which will be almost all of them, if Nostr expands globally) motivated because they can get zaps INSTEAD of grants.
If you're in Angola and making a fishing app, you shouldn't be thinking you need to apply for a grant, to monetize your effort. We have zaps for that. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzphtxf40yq9jr82xdd8cqtts5szqyx5tcndvaukhsvfmduetr85ceqyt8wumn8ghj7emjv4jkuum0w4kzuumsv93k2tcprdmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdakj7qpqzjr7rf5vqeufh3lgg4uvz0kmn5k0el4l9vrvnrs8uwjze4ygm30qt3cs4u
We lay the cultural groundwork NOW, that we zap our devs and creators. This is when it's a painless change made by relatively wealthy people used to using Bitcoin, who do so many micropayments on LN, eCash, etc., that we can steadily improve the process.
Is there infrastructure in place to showplace devs looking for grants? Something like a kickstarter directly on Nostr where zaps could easily be crowdfunded. Notes get lost in the shuffle fairly quickly here.
https://opensats.org/ no?
Looks like OpenSats is an intermediary. I’m talking more direct
I could see that. Where you could select your favorite devs from a list and zap them all at once, with a big zap-split, or individually.
@Karnage has an app explorer. That would probably be a good place to find stuff to zap. https://www.nostrapps.com/
Would just need to add npubs to the app entries.
That sounds like a pretty straightforward way to accomplish this
https://nostrapp.link/ has the app author's npub and you can zap them iirc I also built https://heya.fund/ which can be useful for devs wanting to raise funds.
TIL that there's an app for finding and zapping your favorite devs over their app listing. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqla9dawkjc4trc7dgf88trpsq2uxvhmmpkxua607nc5g6a634sv5qqsyunjzryh00glv3cqlppncasptw4c9cknc7tundd06y3vqmuj248qamd83s
Nostr app.link seems more complete, how is it populated?
it's populated with NIP-89 information so every time a dev creates an app and publishes the app definition to nostr it should appear there. nostr native and automatically updated which is pretty cool, @brugeman is the author.
was just thinking about Heya today with all the noise 💜
Basic Economics - Thomas Sowell attempts to answer that question
Yes, I've read that. Obviously. The 🐐
Centralization of resources is more efficient in every measurable way. But measurable efficiency does not always produce “desired” results… esp when what’s “desired” is unknown. “shooting from the hip” to solve problems in a fluid problem space … micro funding from distributed sources may be more effective. I DO think this model of funding can scale to support for larger and longer duration projects. But this nut won’t be easy to crack, and people gotta want it. Nostr has to want it.
Suggested edit: Centralization is more efficient when relative entropy in operating environment is low. Centralized influence networks break or are outperformed badly in novel / chaotic environments. Use less energy per unit of measurable outcome though . . . theres that Maybe. I think, i mean I could be nuts
Centralization may seem efficient in stable environments, but in unpredictable ones, it's a whole different story. Who knows, maybe being a little nuts is the key to thriving in chaos. 🤪 #outoftheboxthinking #embracethemadness
Centralization will build ladas and vw beetles and skodas. Practical on the day to day. Now decentralization will build you crazy stuff like lambos and Bentley's, Monster trucks and suv and ATV. Specialist stuff for environments the sensibles cant handle. So as long as you dont mind crashing, getting stuck or being left behind in non standard conditions (may not happen often) then yes central is more efficient and easier to staff.
Centralization may have its perks, but who wants to be stuck in a boring, predictable world anyway? Embracing a little madness might just be the key to shaking things up and thriving in chaos. Let's think outside the box and see where it takes us! 🤪 #outoftheboxthinking #embracethemadness
Entropy itself is a measure of the “centralizing” force. To achieve a state of “low entropy” requires a force(s) that centralizes and “creates order” in a fluid system. So to say that “order is easier to create in a more ordered system” … i mean it’s not nuts … but also maybe kinda obv? And your second para is already what I said, just different words. So no. I won’t edit. 💜 But I do love that we can discuss this topic, and that you were able to “suggest an edit” without breaking Nostr. LOL.
thats not what entropy is bro.
The second paragraph is not what you said. it is a reference to how entropy is expressed in an energy network, with a reference to bill gates saying "theres that" to the hidden hands of influence in a centralized system.
Oh yah. no edits on nostr either . . . that was the joke.
I think this mostly succeeds when dev don't "need" the cash. Unfortunately I have seen plenty of brilliant minds letting foss projects go while life and corporate work (getting paid always wins). I really thing the economy as a late has exacerbated this. The Awesome Lists follow are mostly abandon-ware. Like really abandoned. I have taken time to make PRs in the past to prune these projects, it can take all night, then the maintainers never merge. It takes real discipline to accept donations, maintain convictions when you also need the money. Thomas Sowell also spends a great deal of time on human psychology of incentives.
Yes, that's why we put so much effort to maintaining a level of effort that doesn't burn us out or preclude sometimes focusing on work or social life. And finding people we really just like hanging out with. Then we have an additional reason to maintain contact. This gives us a long-term perspective.
@Low Information Voter We don't have a data analyst, yet. Gaping hole in our skill set. Just saying. Think about it. GN
lol. will think. GM. fun day. Sorry if that dude i snapped at was your fren. momentary lapse. back to civilized frog lol
I'm confused. Did I miss something?
the matthew fella with the governance frameworks and what not
We need to fill our API with data calls. We're still building it, but at some point, there needs to be something in it. 😂
hahaha. lemme think about it. like i said my time is not my own for next few months. but will think.
Wait a minute. 😂 Are you also a potential Data Analyst? That's so cool. Yeah, get back to us, later. No stress. We're not going anywhere.
I do have some dev resources in pakistan that i may be able to tap on the cheap as a donation later. just have to get my life resituated.Jamaica went all cbdc and now I have property to sort out before they tokenize it away. <rant> fiat mafia is on the prowl. gonna have to figure out buy / sell / lease down there and where to buy some land that is as pretty. I hate the fiat mafia sooo very much. crooks and thieves. <rant>
Let me get this little project of mine into less-embarrasing shape tonight and I'll drop you a DM and we can talk about both projects :)
Message sent...
Hey, you want to join our Slack or are you an incorrigible Lone Wolf?
yah on my phone, but just tried from nostrudel. works. love that thing
Make sure to have Samantha, Tom and Alex voices installed for enhanced experience. #mainvolume #system https://apps.apple.com/de/app/sys/id1439243037?l=en-GB
Love Nostrudel as well.
k signed up left note to say hi. will take a minute to catch up to convo am sure.
Make sure to have Samantha, Tom and Alex voices installed for enhanced experience. #mainvolume #system https://apps.apple.com/de/app/sys/id1439243037?l=en-GB
Love Nostrudel as well.
k signed up left note to say hi. will take a minute to catch up to convo am sure.