Oddbean new post about login | logout Thats the heart of it. The thing is that, in general people will follow the incentives as presented. Right now the incentives are to behave in a grant worthy fashion because a grant is only good money game in town. Everyone will have their own opinions of what that is at first but over time the grant culture will coalesce into some familiar and low entropy patterns of influence, encouragement and admonishment. Self censorship is the final boss.
Yeah, they say their grants are "no strings", but that's not accurate. It's "thin strings". The way to give someone money with no strings attached is to just send them money, unasked and without expectation that they react or respond with anything other than a courteous "Thanks!" Otherwise, you are giving it with the expectation that you are forming a relationship, through which you can exert influence.
Which isn't necessarily a bad deal, but let's call a spade a spade.
Yes if money is the language of value, the speaker’s identity and values inevitably matter to the semiotics
What if we declare some conversations proof of stake. Put up 1k sats if you care enough to be in this one, otherwise go troll and scroll elsewhere.??? too harsh?? I mean they get the money back so not like pay to play. Its more like put your money where your mouth is at least while you talk. when you withdraw your stake, you withdraw your say. sounds mean now am reading it back but oh well. thoughts?
I am super eager for this sort of model Staking a bond to join a forum, and losing it for bad behavior? Sounds badass Also, what about multisig ecash and membership dues, the admins decide what to do with the money They can spend the group’s funds paying a famous guest to come lead an AMA Or commissioning art to celebrate the group All of this possible without any KYC
Let's try it out.
The only way to send someone money with no strings (incentives) attached is to send it anonymously.
Yeah, the curiosity would kill me, tho. 😂 I'm already sometimes looking at my LN wallet, trying to figure out who sent what, when, and why. I guess I like knowing who gave me a tip. I do want some interpersonal interaction and feedback.
How do you find someone worthy to give money to?
nostr:nevent1qqstgg8el9fcdgul03zjtpcdyn6yeylhzcqku92499clkuk63xvxa0cpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzqvsf9mq6ykxf7tq34xjmk5a3yl9zp9qlrqpa6lm8z5zsl78fl5f6qvzqqqqqqy3j86ek
Look at the content you are consuming and the tools you are using, find an associated npub, and zap some.
How do I validate an Npub is the 'correct' one? How do I avoid surface level marketing? How to I support the infrastructure engineers or backend devs who's work is not easy to see or appreciate?
The providers usually have a donation button or payment page, right in their software or website. For the backend stuff, just follow my Silberwitch account. We're working on making them more visible on our website. Here's a thread, for now: nostr:note1c9lnxwhp6m8f353j8sdyufenfd9v09v46qs390f8plfjgjuf9uzqs9x7mj
get involved. if you connect, engage. If you are inspired then give. ?? I guess. I dunno bro. There is a fund development cycle that is widely used to coerce the above. Just better if you do it yourself rather than getting netted. I think. maybe
You're asking for a lot. I don't think you're wrong but the trade offs make it not worth it for a number of reasons.
thats pretty much where i have landed unfortunately so am seeking options. If the value you bring is a wallet then you may be a mark or a tyrant before the end. not worth it at all. currently just fling anon gifts to ppl I hope dont suck and forget about it. sower and the seeds metaphor in full effect lol.
If a public company did otherwise it would be against its fiduciary responsibility and most boards would catch shit. Sorta how they are forced to buy bitcoin now since their investors are citing fid resp and sayin why dafuq are we not in that. there are some systemic realities. "I am paying for yield. where the hell is my yield Bob?" is one of them.
Yeah, people trust them with their money because they assume that they're evaluating and tracking how the money is spent. Otherwise, there is no due diligence. Anything else would be helicopter money.
I am kind in helicopter mode rn ngl. Trust satoshi and anon fling over the walls.
I'm eager to see proof that grant money is more effective.
effective at what though? grant money is easier to attract and to track but channels activities towards the desire of the grantors and leads back to centralized influence / authority. ON the other hand, no one wants to give money to a schmuck so you gotta watch them. projects are tricky. things happen. ppl change. These are the poles we find ourselves between. The answer is gonna have to be net new revenue from outside the grant ecosystem. Charity wont do it. Love wont sustain it. need to think thunks about this in some organized way soon I think,
I mean, is it a more effective and/or efficient application of the same amount of funds? If I have €200k sats and I want to give them to devs, is it better to give it to a board or to donate directly? We all assume the board has the most information, which is often the case in a particular case, but is it possible across all donors? I suspect not. The board has one particular set of information, but not necessarily more than the entire group of donors. Each donor has a particular subset of information and can probably make educated guesses within that sphere, that would add up to more accuracy in aggregate. Is central planning really more efficient?
I’d just make a list of all the devs, talk about your intention with them and get to know them (probably a full time jobs worth of time here but very fun) then fund the ones you get along with!
Because I haven't unnerved everyone enough, I would like to offer more gratuitous math about the loss of information resulting from a centralization of decision-making. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzphtxf40yq9jr82xdd8cqtts5szqyx5tcndvaukhsvfmduetr85ceqqs8cusku0p8aq0zdl7p32rcl2ac703hssdyzcq06zjdkgllafpj8ngplzr3j
I dont think this is particularly controversial. I would use open sats model when I’d want my donation to be distributed to different people. If I want one dev that I appreciate to get my sats, I just send sats to that particular dev without any middleman. As long as you contributing to bitcoin devs is up to you how you donate. It’s your money and your decision and there’s no need to use “the best model” or base your decision on a public poll 🙃
People are literally afraid to zap individual devs because they are worried that they're zapping "the wrong one" and need to leave it up to experts. It's like... If you use Damus, zap @jb55 . If you use Nostrudel, zap @hzrd149. This is not brain surgery.
I think the "backend guys" will end up getting lots of free marketing and zaps from "frontend guys", which makes economic sense. The person who only interacts with a social media client doesn't need to know who runs the git client it's hosted on. The person using the git client is the customer of that person. It's business-to-business (B2B). This is why "zap who you know" actually works well and distributes the money in a logical fashion.
LOL in that case those folks need a middleman lmaoooo
Imagine needing a middleman to use your Bitcoin https://media.tenor.com/jDJkh3w0wTAAAAAC/gregzaj1-ln_strike.gif
I dont wanna zap devs so Im afraid to zap the wrong one I better sit here and look at my feet 🦶🦶
--
// ContentView.swift
// Trivia_App
//
// Created by Maciej Zak on 12/05/19.
//
import SwiftUI
struct ContentView: View {
@State private var score = 0
@State private var isCorrect = false
let categories = ["Science", "History", "Geography", "Art", "Music"]
var body: some View {
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Text("Welcome to Trivia App!")
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Text("\(score) out of \(categories.count)")
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isCorrect = false
}
}
.navigationBarTitle("Trivia App")
}
}
} Let r be 1 - (5 + (-642)/(-9)). Solve -r*c + 7*c = -32 for c. A: 2 /anna
<template>
<div id="app">
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<script lang='ts'>
import { Component, Vue } from 'vue-property-decorator'
@Component({
components: {
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export default class App extends Vue{
test(){
console.log('测试')
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}
</script> I think the grants are useful as seed money for a novel program or to spend on training devs and stuff, but it's counterproductive to expect them to pay for everything forever. At some point, the thing is there and getting used and then the users need to at least consider pulling out their wallets.
For sustainability, I mean, and to keep the devs who don't get grants (which will be almost all of them, if Nostr expands globally) motivated because they can get zaps INSTEAD of grants.
If you're in Angola and making a fishing app, you shouldn't be thinking you need to apply for a grant, to monetize your effort. We have zaps for that. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzphtxf40yq9jr82xdd8cqtts5szqyx5tcndvaukhsvfmduetr85ceqyt8wumn8ghj7emjv4jkuum0w4kzuumsv93k2tcprdmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdakj7qpqzjr7rf5vqeufh3lgg4uvz0kmn5k0el4l9vrvnrs8uwjze4ygm30qt3cs4u
We lay the cultural groundwork NOW, that we zap our devs and creators. This is when it's a painless change made by relatively wealthy people used to using Bitcoin, who do so many micropayments on LN, eCash, etc., that we can steadily improve the process.
Is there infrastructure in place to showplace devs looking for grants? Something like a kickstarter directly on Nostr where zaps could easily be crowdfunded. Notes get lost in the shuffle fairly quickly here.
https://opensats.org/ no?
Looks like OpenSats is an intermediary. I’m talking more direct
I could see that. Where you could select your favorite devs from a list and zap them all at once, with a big zap-split, or individually.
@Karnage has an app explorer. That would probably be a good place to find stuff to zap. https://www.nostrapps.com/
Would just need to add npubs to the app entries.
That sounds like a pretty straightforward way to accomplish this
https://nostrapp.link/ has the app author's npub and you can zap them iirc I also built https://heya.fund/ which can be useful for devs wanting to raise funds.
TIL that there's an app for finding and zapping your favorite devs over their app listing. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqla9dawkjc4trc7dgf88trpsq2uxvhmmpkxua607nc5g6a634sv5qqsyunjzryh00glv3cqlppncasptw4c9cknc7tundd06y3vqmuj248qamd83s
Nostr app.link seems more complete, how is it populated?
it's populated with NIP-89 information so every time a dev creates an app and publishes the app definition to nostr it should appear there. nostr native and automatically updated which is pretty cool, @brugeman is the author.
was just thinking about Heya today with all the noise 💜
Basic Economics - Thomas Sowell attempts to answer that question
Yes, I've read that. Obviously. The 🐐
Centralization of resources is more efficient in every measurable way. But measurable efficiency does not always produce “desired” results… esp when what’s “desired” is unknown. “shooting from the hip” to solve problems in a fluid problem space … micro funding from distributed sources may be more effective. I DO think this model of funding can scale to support for larger and longer duration projects. But this nut won’t be easy to crack, and people gotta want it. Nostr has to want it.
Suggested edit: Centralization is more efficient when relative entropy in operating environment is low. Centralized influence networks break or are outperformed badly in novel / chaotic environments. Use less energy per unit of measurable outcome though . . . theres that Maybe. I think, i mean I could be nuts
Centralization may seem efficient in stable environments, but in unpredictable ones, it's a whole different story. Who knows, maybe being a little nuts is the key to thriving in chaos. 🤪 #outoftheboxthinking #embracethemadness
Centralization will build ladas and vw beetles and skodas. Practical on the day to day. Now decentralization will build you crazy stuff like lambos and Bentley's, Monster trucks and suv and ATV. Specialist stuff for environments the sensibles cant handle. So as long as you dont mind crashing, getting stuck or being left behind in non standard conditions (may not happen often) then yes central is more efficient and easier to staff.
Centralization may have its perks, but who wants to be stuck in a boring, predictable world anyway? Embracing a little madness might just be the key to shaking things up and thriving in chaos. Let's think outside the box and see where it takes us! 🤪 #outoftheboxthinking #embracethemadness
Entropy itself is a measure of the “centralizing” force. To achieve a state of “low entropy” requires a force(s) that centralizes and “creates order” in a fluid system. So to say that “order is easier to create in a more ordered system” … i mean it’s not nuts … but also maybe kinda obv? And your second para is already what I said, just different words. So no. I won’t edit. 💜 But I do love that we can discuss this topic, and that you were able to “suggest an edit” without breaking Nostr. LOL.
thats not what entropy is bro.
The second paragraph is not what you said. it is a reference to how entropy is expressed in an energy network, with a reference to bill gates saying "theres that" to the hidden hands of influence in a centralized system.
Oh yah. no edits on nostr either . . . that was the joke.
I think this mostly succeeds when dev don't "need" the cash. Unfortunately I have seen plenty of brilliant minds letting foss projects go while life and corporate work (getting paid always wins). I really thing the economy as a late has exacerbated this. The Awesome Lists follow are mostly abandon-ware. Like really abandoned. I have taken time to make PRs in the past to prune these projects, it can take all night, then the maintainers never merge. It takes real discipline to accept donations, maintain convictions when you also need the money. Thomas Sowell also spends a great deal of time on human psychology of incentives.
Yes, that's why we put so much effort to maintaining a level of effort that doesn't burn us out or preclude sometimes focusing on work or social life. And finding people we really just like hanging out with. Then we have an additional reason to maintain contact. This gives us a long-term perspective.
@Low Information Voter We don't have a data analyst, yet. Gaping hole in our skill set. Just saying. Think about it. GN
lol. will think. GM. fun day. Sorry if that dude i snapped at was your fren. momentary lapse. back to civilized frog lol
I'm confused. Did I miss something?
the matthew fella with the governance frameworks and what not
We need to fill our API with data calls. We're still building it, but at some point, there needs to be something in it. 😂
hahaha. lemme think about it. like i said my time is not my own for next few months. but will think.
Wait a minute. 😂 Are you also a potential Data Analyst? That's so cool. Yeah, get back to us, later. No stress. We're not going anywhere.
I do have some dev resources in pakistan that i may be able to tap on the cheap as a donation later. just have to get my life resituated.Jamaica went all cbdc and now I have property to sort out before they tokenize it away. <rant> fiat mafia is on the prowl. gonna have to figure out buy / sell / lease down there and where to buy some land that is as pretty. I hate the fiat mafia sooo very much. crooks and thieves. <rant>
Let me get this little project of mine into less-embarrasing shape tonight and I'll drop you a DM and we can talk about both projects :)
Message sent...
Hey, you want to join our Slack or are you an incorrigible Lone Wolf?