Oddbean new post about login | logout How do you propose that governments pay for stuff?
Voluntary donations. Even if some taxes prove necessary that has no bearing on whether or not taxes are theft or the morals regarding theft. If someone breaks into a cabin in the woods and lives on the food there after surviving a winter plane crash over wilderness the fact that they would have died without doing so doesn’t make them less guilty of trespass, theft and if they broke anything on the way in destruction of property. In either case, the plane crash or funding something through taxes, it better be worth being the bad guy to get it done. If it isn’t maybe that means don’t do it and live with the consequences of that choice. If one makes the decision to engage in the necessary force to achieve their ends they also should expect the social consequences from those around them. https://youtu.be/fr5IIPEJ1EE?si=ustMTJsQYrwRxznr
Nice argument. Except for the HUGE holes in logic. When you sell something you do so using the infrastructure set up by you country and that infrastructure needs funding for developing, maintaining and improving. Even the very laws and law enforcement are infrastructure. Also the people that need infrastructure the most are the ones with the less resources to pay for it. In your proposition, people living in huge cities would say "why would I pay for the roads of the rest of the country, while the rest of the country can't afford to pay for the roads because the lack of roads means less business You are acting like the government doesn't give you anything because millions of people already paid for your stuff. The us struggles to get people to vote, and voting is free. Imagine trying to get them to give money to paid for someone else's infrastructure
What does any of that have to do with the morality of making people pay for stuff they don’t want to use or making them pay more for the stuff they do use to cover someone else’s share on threat of violence? That’s still stealing anyway you slice it. Regardless of how much good it might do in a given situation or of how necessary it might be for millions of people to continue to live. Morals and ethics don’t change because its a bunch of people getting together to vote themselves the power to do things they can’t do as individuals.
What. So you say that when you call the cops they should first charge you and then do their job? No. They have to be employed before hand. You HAVE to pay for they jobs so that when you or anyone else needs it, it's there. Also, let's say you live in a street without public lighting. If you want public lighting would you only pay for the light in front of your house? A single light is not very practical, You can't force your neighbors to pay for theirs, and I guess you probably won't pay for all of them either. The solution? Everyone pays taxes so that the government can build the lights for everyone. Also I'm not talking about morality. I'm saying that you use things paid for by other but complain when you have to pay thing for others. If they hadn't built your roads, lights and laws, you wouldn't have a penny. That is not morality. If you want to argue that, you have to stop using public infrastructure or you are a hypocrite
I live on a dirt road well outside of town and wouldn’t care to have it lit at all. I’ve never had city water or sewer. The only service I’ve ever used is roads. I’d be happy to pay toll’s for my usage of roads, typically under 10,000 miles a year, instead of taxes but that isn’t an option so I’ll continue to consider it all immoral *and* use the roads while I my money is taken in sales, income and property taxes for everything else the government does. Taxes that I would have to pay anyway even if I did have the option of just using toll roads and paying as I went. I don’t count school because attendance was compulsory and other than the last semester of my senior year I was to young to sign a contract on my own anyway. That last semester was probably 5kish for me. I paid that back and then some 15 years ago.
Like what?
Law making , law enforcement, public lights, elections, schools, health and safety... Really? Where do you live? Even if you live under a rock, you probably own or rent that rock which give you rights according to the laws and that law has to be enforced and maintained
I don't want state government, hence defunding it is step one. Governance should be though voluntary association, in which people pay for what they value and agree to rules among each other.