Oddbean new post about login | logout Maybe trying to appeal to "normies" at this point is wrong and we should first get computer nerds or activists or something like that first.
could not agree more nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33vcm82emc09uxk6mwddjhgvmtddjxwaf5dvcxvafhx3mx6umgv9mk2unddd4rsepsxeeh5dn2w3enjap5ddekcct6vd4kz0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2q3q80cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsxpqqqqqqz606y8g
could not agree more
I suspect the 'activists' are p muh accommodated well enough on twitter within social media microblogging (which is not to say they are under any illusions about the shortcomings) and substack. The future is more uncertain about video and streaming platforms, where there is more of a precarity. Unfortunately nostr doesn't have a presence in that world, yet(!?) 🤔
Just add *any* url that ends .mp3 .m3u8 or .mp4 and you'll have video. https://ia804704.us.archive.org/24/items/steamboat-willie-mickey/01%20-%20Steamboat%20Willie.mp4
I think that's right. One thing I've learned from failed attempts at "orange pilling" is that you can't sell something to someone who believes they have no need for that thing. If "normies" are generally happy with their current social media platforms they don't have a strong enough incentive to learn a new platform. If/When they realize they need a censorship resistant platform #nostr will be there for them.
I think people will really appreciate Nostr once it isn’t just bitcoiners on here. Apps like Damus really do make it similar to twitter but without all the bots and undisclosed advertisements, but I have seen people try it and just leave after a while because they don’t care about Bitcoin. Kinda difficult though because that is a chicken and egg problem
My uncle Joe isn't quite ready for Nostr. But when he is, be ready for some photos of him rocking Crocs with no shirt on and the biggest belly you've ever seen.
Yes… Did bitcoin start with normies? No. Normies is end-game.
I agree, now that the base is practically laid for a smooth onboarding and user experience, the focus should be on attracting those whose the average social media model doesn't work for. Those who see value in what nostr has to offer. Be it its decentalized nature, its censorship resistance, v4v, etc. Once the more niche people are here and their niche grows, we can naturally focus on improving the needs that will arise and evolve organically.
We don't need to appeal to anyone who clamors for central planning
Totally agree. - Python and other open source dev communities (currently the biggest users of Mastadon) - Activists or people generally living in oppressive environments - Community applications for under developed areas - Builders and tech innovators - Shitcoiners? - unsure about this one 🤣
I was talking with the wife about this, and in shortni don't think Noster needs to appeal to any demographic. Its the free speech and anonymity crowd, whatever demographics they fall in. Long-term, I see "mass adoption" when Nostr is actually an ecosystem of social interactions possibilities through videos, notes, snapchat-like messaging, tiktok style and IG stuff.. but all connected.
I'm so completely unconcerned with onboardimg when it comes to the long term view of NOSTR because it's such a versatile and powerful protocol. There's a reason why I went through the trouble of getting set up here even though I was already off proprietary platform and on the fediverse. Not to mention we're riding the Bitcoin adoption coattails in a way as well. There's no reason to take drastic action to onboard new users lolbwe just need to be patient (and a little evangelistic)
https://media.tenor.com/e-tu1KPkCucAAAAM/the-simpsons-homer-simpson.gif nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgq3q80cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsxpqqqqqqz473cyj
That's why we have to keep the Nostr weird. nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygpm7rrrljungc6q0tuh5hj7ue863q73qlheu4vywtzwhx42a7j9n5psgqqqqqqshcyyyh
2023 I on boarded 6 norms to nostr. Not a single one of them made a single post. That's a lil disheartening.
Appealing to them is fine. They should be interested. If onboarding is clear and educational, but NOT necessarily easy, you'll find decent normies who will make good users. That probably describes me.
I think it’s fine having an escape room here for nerds where we can talk freely .. :).. normies will then come eventually
What prevents you from talking freely on telegram/whatsup/facebook/etc groups?
I mentioned freely but in reality I meant "more comfortably" as we are here a bunch of nerds that speak same language :). That said, it's true that in some other places you'd be banned depending on what you say.. which is not the case here either
Create a public telegram chat group with comments, throw away password from the account you have created it with, share the link to this chat with some programmers — you have a x1000 better tool to cover nerds needs in a matter of seconds without wasting tons of efforts and resources You don’t need all of that if you just want some niche place to chill with like-minded people
DIFFERENT CLIENTS CAN FOCUS ON DIFFERENT TYPES OF USERS AND WE CAN HIT THEM ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
There should still be a frequently updated "Community Recommended Clients" list somewhere to help reduce the frustration of researching a growing list of incomplete clients.
Umm. Kinda takes away that entire premise of free market equilibrium & equitable… But sure … Flow your own way K let me know how that works out for ya 🤣
Exactly the MAKES me absolutely crazy, which is probably the point so well done 🤣
I have no interest in appealing to the normies nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzqwlsccluhy6xxsr6l9a9uhhxf75g85g8a709tprjcn4e42h053vaqvzqqqqqqy43s02h
Normies are not the ones we need. The curious youngsters that are about to fall into the addictive hands of corrupt social media are the ones we need. #nostr nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygpm7rrrljungc6q0tuh5hj7ue863q73qlheu4vywtzwhx42a7j9n5psgqqqqqqshcyyyh
With the short window to create freedom tech for the masses who’ll be coming, I’d say 100% forget about them for now and get more builders building 🤙
The object is the cause for the subject. So in order to attract computer nerds (I would say geeks), activists or influencers to use Nostr there must be the environment suitable for what they do.
If we can unboard even a few dozen large celebrities as well, the protocol would gain a lot of traction.
Outside the Bitcoin sphere those I have mentioned Nostr to have not heared of it. It would be advantagous to have well know figures to onboard and promote it. Foster and prosper!!
Was just reading this: "For all those reasons—for whole product leverage, for word-of-mouth effectiveness, and for perceived market leadership—it is critical that, when crossing the chasm, you focus exclusively on achieving a dominant position in one or two narrowly bounded market segments." – Moore, Geoffrey, Crossing the chasm
Usenet, FidoNet, etc., were glorious before the normies showed up. You don't need a billion people to have a useful, fun discussion. 👍
Your message is garnering a lot of interest. Added to the https://nostraco.in/hot feed
If you build it they will come 💜
how many daily active users after 2 years…?
Gradually then suddenly✌️
I think you allow users to activate payable subscriptions, I know that the users can also get sats that can still be used. It’s a way to let the influencers know that they can get paid regularly while not getting restricted by algorithms that promotes specific accounts.
Normies do things like inject themselves with random things "because my employer requires it". We'll be OK without them for now.
My concern is if/when appealing to "normies" becomes part of the protocol. Beyond that "normies" can include the computer nerds that are skeptical of the "crypto" part because they don't understand it. I was skeptical, but the protocol was so simple I was able to build my extension to get here.
Agreed, but as long as this place broadcasts bitcoin and lightning then this is all it will ever be. Nostr stinks of crypto scam to normies. My suggestion is to build a client without a zap button, host a relay that rejects bitcoin influencers. Let local culture take root.
Like the very successful and friendly Nostr ad that circulated on insta some time ago had no mention of any crypto economy and promised non-polarising cesorship resistant social media.. It was good
Please finish this plugin for me. I ran out of juice https://github.com/telamon/strfry-geofilter
I'm all for local nostr, but I think there is a conflict with privacy. Something that can be fixed with more design and some NIPs though, once it's thought through.
I designed the algorithm to be privacy preserving, 300km range is cheap < 1min, 50km range tricky ~10min 4m range, good luck I wished to incentivize at least 1 relay per 300km around the globe, but I think people were busy.
I’m an artsy/creative normie (but smart) and do not code. Some of terms you 💻 geeks use, still don’t know what they mean.
What is a normie anyway? From my prospective it is not about onboarding to Bitcoin but about offboarding from the fiat system. If a person is ignorant about the fiat system, then that is the starting point.
Don't we already have computer nerds? 😂 So, more of them then? Got it, boss.
We're Bitcoin nerds. We use computers to replace an unjust monetary system. I think he's talking about normie computer nerds that build gaming computers instead of bitcoin mining heaters.
Brother I hate to tell you this secret but I've built several gaming rigs in my life, will be gaming later today, and my WoW guildmate back in 2009 introduced me to Bitcoin. Gamers and computer nerds were some of the first Bitcoiners because it's a native internet currency.
Interesting. Didn't know that.
From my perspective, the normies are already in Bitcoin. The non-gaming nerds are here! 😂😂😂 I'm sure in another year or two after the next class is here, they'll say that normies aren't here yet. It's a constantly moving goal post until everyone is here.
Free speech maximalists /Computer scientists /Tech nerds /crypto advocates probably make up 1-10% of the global population. They are probably the ones who will get nostr appeal first. So it makes sense to go after this group first. If they like nostr they will stay and tell their friends about it eventually.
I'm still going to try to recruit every single Bitcoiner. If you understand freedom money, then you understand freedom communication. It should just be that simple, because we cannot have the freedom to transact without the freedom to communicate. I won't stop until all Bitcoiners understand this. nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygpm7rrrljungc6q0tuh5hj7ue863q73qlheu4vywtzwhx42a7j9n5psgqqqqqqshcyyyh
# Money. Give them a reason to potentially make #money on #nostr and they will come => #tipQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9nYIa8b-6c
Agreed. I would like to focus on promoting nostr to free speech advocates, non-bitcoiner grafitti artists, and cypherpunks. Where is Adam Back, Nick Szabo, or Phil Zimmerman?
A small percentage of the subscription, 2,5% can be for developers to maintain the apps or platforms.
That’s how to attract computer geeks; they can run their own business by having subscribers on their own clients or be part of the existing ones.
That’s a great idea. Are there any ideas what they need that isn’t well met? Maybe Nostr already solves that for them? I think activists, whistleblowers or journalists will need truly private and secure comms (their adversaries are governments). Maybe a wikileaks type website as well for stuff to be published on. For computer nerds I wonder if it’s just a Reddit clone that’s got enough people on it to have interesting conversations?
We should think about joining with Klaus in extinguishiing the normies, not trying to atyaract them, they always ruin everything
Discuss. nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68yct5dyhxxmmdqgsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8grqsqqqqqpv4zemu
I think there's a meaningful difference between "Catering to" and "Appealing to" normies. It's clear we should not be sacrificing our values in an effort to onboard as many new users as possible. But, I think building products that some non-bitcoin native users would find interesting helps serve our mission as both Nostr and Bitcoin advocates. Removing obstacles that get in the way of an intuitive UX is the clearest low hanging fruit atm imo.
note15tux2hswje3ds3xyk7kxx93p8l0ecr2aanf24z002rz9sq5y6aaqdkf3em I have started focusing on those that need BTC the most (from my subjective judgement clearly) and help and care about the bitcoiners that are in the rabbit hole, growing but somewhat fragile
I think the goal would be to abstract the underlying tech behind whatever "normies" use! If they're interested they'll learn more, if not... will keep using whatever client suits best to his needs! My 2 sats...
For many years I would "push" so many of my B2C re-sellers, only to finally realize, that B2B was my niche. And they are the niche that not just actually listens to me about Bitcoin, Lightning etc. But have a wallet on their phones, have a pos and are actually doing business around the World. I'm more comfortable with actual B2B "people" they are hungry and have to deal with International importing exporting paperwork, shipping issues, declaring value in their respective fiat to Customs, translated from Lightning payments. It's handy someone who has a B2C coffee shop can accept a Bitcoin payment, but B2B brings more interactions for potential circular use of Bitcoin. Also many of us "B2B" owners have many different websites, and market in many ways in many Countries, there is a value in "reaching" potential end users in the long run realizing B2B is the acid test in daily transaction issues and tests such as portable printers, International and domestic USA Harmon codes, shipping carriers tracking number logging etc. Just saying the use, growth of NOSTR in general will be faster used by B2B, we hungry and faster at adapting anything that will help us in communication around the World. My two cents Thanks
I think that nostr naturally attracts those 'other stuff' people, and normies in the current state feel some friction, so the focus from my point of view in order not to go against the natural target should be on developing and polishing well the tools and integrations, but never forgetting usability and ux.
Absolutely. Appeal to any other niche groups, such as journalists, privacy activists, artists, that can value a new free and uncensored space of action and fill it with content. Normies, who are often on the side of consumption, will follow and begin to learn and appreciate these Nostr's values. The new DM implemention will finally help to anchor them here, to stay. And eventually they will begin to become content producers themselves.
bingo
Why, so they can all be ignored?
To me normies in this case are early adopters who aren’t bitcoiners. And yes we need to build stuff for different communities, like the work we’re doing to get @Causes on Nostr.
Perhaps @Causes should be integrated to be part of other platforms or apps. Like, it can be in the side bar and it’s posts can show up in the feed of any other app or platform.
That’s how to attract activists and their followers (normies).
Adopt tech nerds, build great things, and the normies will come. nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzyqalp33lewf5vdq847t6te0wvnags0gs0mu72kz8938tn24wlfze6qcyqqqqqqgs4ujtk
I've always thought that the "bread and hungry fish" analogy is flawed. It's true that those who have limited resources should focus on helping those who need it most. But ultimately, we can't stop other fish from trying to get their share. They'll come around eventually, and the protocol and the market will naturally weed out those who don't belong. Of course, we should still aim for efficiency, but I think some people are capable of self-improvement. In my opinion, we should encourage anyone who's interested to experiment, and then let the market and the individual take care of the rest. As for me, I'll just do my part and do what I can.
Until Nostr clients offer UX that can rival all sorts of centralized platforms, the main users of Nostr are going to be people for looking to monetize their content. nostr:nevent1qqsgqy3kkxgknj576g7m2p3uw78xu3p0htut8jvlxuyax4llgtjzyvqppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzqwlsccluhy6xxsr6l9a9uhhxf75g85g8a709tprjcn4e42h053vaqvzqqqqqqytvk480
We're damned close if we're not already there. I think mainly identity (key) management is the bumpy part still.
I think in computer science generally the tech gets better if it's made more consumer-friendly (even if only for the resource boost you get through wider adoption). But for Nostr as a social medium, once parity is achieved broadly speaking (I think we're pretty much there), the ultimate fight isn't on the feature front, but against the network effect. Why should any single person decide to leave networks where they've established themselves with friends, people they follow, followers, etc. and start from scratch? It's a mighty obstacle. Maybe the way Nostr will take hold is not as a social medium, but with other apps that people interact with. What are things people can't do now that we could enable them to do with Nostr that are of substantial benefit to the user?
Totally agree, create USPs to ease them in like blogging and interaction platforms and then open their eyes to the marvelous possibilities. I actually want to bring it to project management and team communication: https://github.com/xeruf/nodal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostr Wikipedia articles about nostr in English and 6 more languages look rather meagrely. Expand them and add these really cool infographics.
Yes, because we're not ready yet for mainstream...
Oh I thought we were targeting neurodivergents
No need to target, they find their way.
If you build it, they will come. You’ve done an excellent job here. I agree with others who said: just keep building. Many liberty-lovers did not understand Bitcoin at first, either. Normies still don’t. We’re so, so early. Being its creator and at its epicenter, you may not fully realize how special Nostr is. Hello to anyone reading this in the Year 3000.
Yes, that's the idea. The normies are just incapable of doing anything about computers besides clicking pretty icons. The normies are not ready for Nostr yet. #Nostr #code #computer #nerds nostr:note1sqfrdvv3d89fa53ak5rrcauwdezzlwhck0ye7dcf6dtl7shyygcq49adv0
nostr:nevent1qqsvf0qx0x9hcpr4kk3xltlwqqwyl9m37qmv7slj5swrnuajml5snxgpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzqf95tyq2jtaug5nue7t4h4qknz8ygnrwfk0nvnz3tpn87pmky0lzqvzqqqqqqyuxl5tj nostr:nevent1qqsxskhe9larn99edhecs33sddullzrwewkscsauq2kp27gk7qvfhpgpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzqf95tyq2jtaug5nue7t4h4qknz8ygnrwfk0nvnz3tpn87pmky0lzqvzqqqqqqy9w6ksv
