Oddbean

i remember us briefly talking about that last time 😅 one of the debatable benefits of the protestant tradition is no centralized authority. I would argue that a lack of objective interpretational authority is a very dangerous thing, and that point was the nail in the coffin, so to speak, for me finally leaving the protestant system and moving towards orthodoxy

It is indeed a very knotty problem. In fact, I'm presently personally impacted in a very dramatic way. About a month ago now, I chose to withdraw from membership in a church because I could not in good conscience accept it's demand that I cease speaking, even privately, about what I see scripture teaching that diverges from the traditional (but extrabiblical) reformed documents accepted by this church.😢 I can and do listen and learn from blessed and unique insights shared by my Orthodox brothers, but I believe they--along with Presbyterians--are in error about heirarchy.

Respectfully, I would encourage you to take your questions and issues with Orthodoxy, visit your local Orthodox Christian parish, and talk to a priest. I was in a very similar position being Proteatant for 25+ years before God softened my heart and my wife and I decided to go inquire about this Orthodoxy thing, not from internet apologists, but an Orthodox priest himself. Glory to God, I came back Home to the Church Christ established 2000 years ago ☦️

Thanks for your kind words, Brother.🫂 May our Lord and King Jesus continue to bless you! I will also respectfully ask you to read and consider what I've been learning from the scriptures lately🙏🏻😆: https://peakd.com/library/@creatr/the-kingdom-of-jesus-god-the-heavens-my-library-shelf

I asked a priest at my local Orthodox church and was told about the Pauline exception, but @Duncan Cary Palmer is right, Paul didn't ask to be called father. 🤷🏽‍♀️ In the first video the priest says that Jesus established bishops, but I don't recall any incident in the gospels that could relate to that. Do you have a video that clarifies that point?

Yeah, this is one of those english translation things. A priest is simply an elder and the bishop is the overseer (1 tim 3:2). The scripture also says to call no man teacher in verse 10 of that same chapter, but scripture is clear that this is a gifting and refers to several people as teacher. I think the biggest hurdle for me when looking at orthodoxy was understanding that these guys arent just a bunch of enigmatic sand hippies, worshipping dead people and their petrified limbs, doing weird stuff because they love heresy. These people truly love Jesus and have a historic basis for literally everything they do, pray, and believe. Many things were difficult to grasp at first but I wanted to give them the honest benefit of the doubt before judging them as incompatible with true christianity. Turns out, they hold the scripture arguably in higher regard than post modern christianity does in my opinion, as they were the ones responsible for compiling it lol

To be fair, I don't think I recall Jesus personally ordaining any elders or overseers either. 🤔 I actually have great respect for the orthodox church, it's teachings and continuity. That is why I've spent about a year trying to learn about it and 6 months sometimes attending one to attempt to understand the practices through personal encounter. Shh.. Don't tell anyone but I'm actually a very bad protestant with plenty of beliefs that my peeps would call bad theology 😅.

I don't believe in penal substitution theory. I lean more Christus Victor... I think we are all head and no heart, reverence and lack an understanding of sacred spaces. I believe in theosis, that God is redeeming all things to Himself. I'm a partial preterist... The seeming theotokis worship stuff really gets me, although a Catholic once explained it to me in a way that made it seem less problematic and even a little beautiful... I still don't understand venerating objects though I have done it twice. That sand and stone video helped. The priest said orthodox believe they are looking at Jesus in an icon, so kissing his feet makes sense I guess. I still have to ponder that some more.. I'm sure there's more ways I'm a bad protestant with "bad theology" but taht should do for now 😂😅

Oops I left out one of my really bad beliefs... I don't believe that we are saved by Grace *alone*. The "sinners prayer" does lots of damage when not followed up properly. To the point where it's probably more dangerous than worthwhile. Though to he fair many protestants will try to unite 'new converts' to a church. I don't believe in the woo woo end-times prophetic stuff that some obsess over. I believe the Israelites were called to giagantomachi but also that it probably concluded with David. The latter part would also make me a bad orthodox too, I guess. I'm a pacifist, but Christians of all pursuasions bar some extremes seem to call for war... I think I just figured out why people go to confession 🤣🤣 I've never really listed all my "bad" theologies before. That was oddly cathartic. Thanks for reading. 🤣

With regards to the decentralised nature of protestant churches, it definitely has its advantages and disadvantages, just as hierarchy does. Sometimes hierarchy done well can be a beautiful thing, it can also be abused by unscrupulous people 🤷🏽‍♀️. It's probably going to take me a while to discern a path for this one aspect of orthodox belief. I don't think I could ever convert to Orthodoxy though because that would mean no more worshipping with my hubby and community and that I believe would be the morally incorrect choice for me and my family.