Oddbean

OK, thanks, I just listened to this and I'm not sure I buy it, at least not completely...🤔 I have particularly been aware of the apparent "Pauline exception," but even in that case he was making an observation and not instructing his "children" to call him father. Neither can I get past this brother's idea that "priests are special?" Are we not, as believers, *all* priests? Are we not a holy nation? I do appreciate his call to humility. I'm going to link what I perceive to be an excellent counterpoint to the heirarchical Orthodox view in a separate note...😃

so, yes, we are a royal priesthood, i think the chasm in western and eastern thought on this is an english language issue specifically. new testament 'priests' are a completely different category than old testament 'priests'. here is a different video explaining it much better than i could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdSobDeANDM

I find myself--after a lifetime of observation of "churches as they exist" compared and contrasted with a lifetime of studying scripture--strongly opposed to heirarchy, especially in the ecclesia. My working conclusion is that all such trappings are importation of worldly philosophy, and that they have become encrusted in tradition... https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+14%3A26&version=ESV

i remember us briefly talking about that last time 😅 one of the debatable benefits of the protestant tradition is no centralized authority. I would argue that a lack of objective interpretational authority is a very dangerous thing, and that point was the nail in the coffin, so to speak, for me finally leaving the protestant system and moving towards orthodoxy

It is indeed a very knotty problem. In fact, I'm presently personally impacted in a very dramatic way. About a month ago now, I chose to withdraw from membership in a church because I could not in good conscience accept it's demand that I cease speaking, even privately, about what I see scripture teaching that diverges from the traditional (but extrabiblical) reformed documents accepted by this church.😢 I can and do listen and learn from blessed and unique insights shared by my Orthodox brothers, but I believe they--along with Presbyterians--are in error about heirarchy.

With regards to the decentralised nature of protestant churches, it definitely has its advantages and disadvantages, just as hierarchy does. Sometimes hierarchy done well can be a beautiful thing, it can also be abused by unscrupulous people 🤷🏽‍♀️. It's probably going to take me a while to discern a path for this one aspect of orthodox belief. I don't think I could ever convert to Orthodoxy though because that would mean no more worshipping with my hubby and community and that I believe would be the morally incorrect choice for me and my family.

Oh, those go for a few hours. They'll have to wait, but I have added them to my play list. The thumbnail looks very familiar. I suspect someone has sent them to me before but I never actually listened.

Bite sized chunks probably makes sense but I don't do things in halves 😏 I was also aware of a substantial amount of how screwed up the reformation was and it's effects, so I didn't have much to stop and ponder. Seeing them from an Orthodox perspective was interesting still. I do think the priest wasn't always fair to protestants. He usually over generalised the worst attributes which don't exist in as greater degrees as his surety implied. But in group/out group preferences mean we see the worst attributes of each other's practices and bundle everyone with that label together. 🤷🏽‍♀️

I absolutely agree with that point. He came out of the same reformed system I did, so his points were especially impactful to me, however I find that I am much more empathetic towards differing christian systems than he is 😅