Oddbean

OK, past few days were quite wild. I am currenly in El Salvador because I was attending the Adopting Bitcoin conference. My very limited internet connection here made it quite difficult to engage, I mostly just got push notifications. Hereby I want to take the opportunity to tell the story from my side. TL;DR: We were just having fun, we thought it was okay. Apperently it's not and nvk is is so upset that he felt he had to file a GitHub takedown request. I feel that's not how bitcoiners behave. ### How it started I have been working on the #BTClock since April '23. It started of some sort of bet where I challenged myself to make a BTC ticker as cheap as possible. I just ordered seven eInk displays on AliExpress with the intention of showing information related to bitcoin using an ESP32. Why seven? Because the words BITCOIN and SATOSHI both consist of seven letters and connecting more screens to the ESP32 did not seem possible without adding I/O-port expanders. Yes. The idea was inspired (among other projects) by Blockclock, which also uses eInk displays. I don't own one, so I couldn't "reverse engineer" or use any direct inspiration of it but the way you can combine multiple eInk displays to display information in an useful way is very limited. After getting the schematic right. I created a 3D printable case for it (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6009628) and named it BTClock after someone's idea in the Dutch Noderunners community. Since it consists of seven characters I thought it's the perfect name since it fits the seven displays too. nostr:note19zp3c8lsm4s5lwvuscu4dll3clkzvajrwthvqed5q7s83mazrr2swc6mqe ### May 2023 This allows you to create a BTClock for ±70 euro (if you own a 3D printer). I shared the progress of the project in the MakerBits telegram group. Ben Arc checked with nvk how he felt about it, and I have seen his responsse where he replied with that he felt honored and that I should go ahead. In hindsight, I should've asked Ben to forward this to me but I wouldn't expect this to "haunt" me like it did last week. After sharing the very spaghetti-y schematic in some Telegram groups, someone replied that he was working on making an actual PCB out of it. After some DM'ing back and forth we got our first PCB prototype that needed some work. After 4 iterations we finally got it how we wanted and were able to sell DIY kits. The PCB is real artwork, so we wanted to show it off. Therefore we added a acrylic backplate to be able to protect it while still able to see the proof-of-work by Madbo, the PCB artwork designer. We used a lot of through hole components to make it accesible for anyone who has a soldering iron. ### August 2023 In August 2023 we finally got the kits ready, while the initial plan was to only sell the DIY kit within the Dutch Noderunners community, I brought smoe with me to Baltic Honeybadger '23 as well, where it proved to be pretty succesful while sitting next to Ben in the chilling lounge. I got a lot of encouraging and positive remarks about the project, including Daniel Prince (@princeysov) who tweeted about this (https://x.com/Princey21M/status/1698257536418267624). It appeared that this tweet firstly poked the lion, since nvk sent some of his coinkite employees to me after this tweet, a group of 4 people asked a lot of questions while filming me (without my consent, I didn't realize this when they were asking it but when they walked away it was clear to see the iPhone was recording video). Not a lot later, nvk sent out a tweet which was clearly about the BTClock project without explicitly mentioning the name (https://x.com/nvk/status/1698423362819682400) However, in my opinion this did still fit the message I read he wrote to Ben that he was more flattered than upset. It was only then when I learned about how he reacted to Foundation Passport and how he behaves regarding the SeedSigner project. https://m.primal.net/MaIv.png ### March 2024 During Bitcoin Atlantis in March 2024, there was a nice space for the MakerBits projects including the BTClock, the software by this time has many improvements, including real-time new block notifications by utilizing the Mempool.space Websocket API. Since the hardware is also open source, many alternative faceplates are available including a stainless steel one and a completely white one. Multiple people witnessed nvk walking passed the maker space while looking at me, but he did not engage or whatsoever. I would expect if he would take offense by the product, he would've approached me by now but he didn't. He does know who I am though, both in real-life and I'm posting enough on my social media accounts (Nostr and Xitter) to find me there as well. ### Fast forward to November 2024 A lot has happened in the development of the BTClock, among other things I added a BitAxe integration and Nostr Zap Notifications to the software and we managed to add frontlight to the eInk displays which I really think sets the BTClock apart from other "tickers" like the Blockclock mini. The Blockclock mini hasn't had any updates for two years (since October 3rd, 2022) which seems to be like the Blockclick mini can be considered end-of-life. I therefore was very suprised that when I woke up on November 14th, I received an e-mail that the BTClock GitHub organization was flagged because of alleged trademark infringement of the BTClock. This was according to a report by Coinkite to GitHub. The letter I shared in the MakerBits Telegram group was ONLY sent to GitHub, not to me (although I haven't been home for a while so I don't know something is waiting in my physical mailbox). Luckily git is decentralized version control and there are already mirrors of the hardware and software source available. Also GitHub allows me to appeal but haven't taken the chance to do so. Although I do understand that the concept of trademarks exists for a reason, I feel this a very cowardly move and certainly not something that I would expect from fellow bitcoiners. Just sending me a DM on Nostr, X or Telegram is the least I would expect. I don't mean to offend or infringe, and would be happy to discuss options if open to it. Either in DM or out in the open. I'm all about transparency so @NVK here is my invitation to discuss this out in the open. I'm sorry that we seem to upset you. what is it that bothers you, can we find a way to let the projects co-exist? Or even see if the BTClock software can adapted to your Blockclock mini hardware.

I stand with you nostr:nprofile1qqst2yn6pr8nxctzwjqq5su83qdflx8qfwwrwytwjt09y5zfsc6uggspypmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0v3jhyatwdejhyuewdejhgam0wf4j7qgmwaehxw309ahx7um5wgh8xct5dphkzunyv4ezucm0d5hszymhwden5te0danxvcmgv95kutnsw43z7f2mgdy 🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼

Your project is indeed unique and welcome. An open source project is not free to produce, develop, lead, work with contributors, etc. and I honestly don't see how the two products compare other than in looks. You put in work and you should be rewarded. I hope that NVK has only a specific issue (maybe the name) and that this can be addressed sensibly.

It's a trademark issue, not a code or github issue. Trademark is garbage type of law. I'm running a company not a foss project. Even foss projects have trademarks they defend. Because there is no choice, defend or lose. The drama due to people utter ignorance about trademark and is mostly generated and amplified by the scumbags from foundation and seed signer guy. I don't know this guy, or was ever contacted by him. The legal trademark team has autonomy and go over all of our tradfemarks, he was just one issue. If he ever contacted me, I would have encouraged him to create something new and different with his skills, but that's just my way of being. I see skills wasted not created something actually new. Heck he didn't even bother changing the display aspect ratio. Because this is a legal mater i can't get into details or argue online.

How would it have affected you if you did not act? Not at all... Why did you not contact him when you knew about BTClock before? Legal team... Sure you have no contact to the "legal team" in a 20 employee company?

You have dozens of mutual friends. It's basic decency to contact someone before taking legal action. Especially if all you demand is a name change and maybe a redesign. Outsourcing stuff is good, but your legal department works on your behalf. So their behavior reflects on you.

That is a complaint you could have raised while contacting him, before taking legal action. More generally it's never a good idea to build up frustration about someone or something and waiting for it to explode. (not something I pretend to be great at either)

BTCLOCK is the better version IMO. it’s clear you have done some awesome work on this project and pushed the idea much further than BlockClock– and ‘inspired by’ does in no way constitute trademark infringement. See: transformative use. It’s a cowardly move by @NVK to react in this way. Definitely does not embrace the ethos of Bitcoin and FOSS development. Keep pushing 💪

Thanks for posting this and thank you for being such an awesome builder. I truly hope you continue your great work here and would love to buy a clock direct from you when/if you have them available.

Some proof of work of the fist PCB design of #BTClock and some pictures along the way. https://m.primal.net/MaLF.jpg First PCB Design, unfortunately it didn't work 😞 (Jun-2023) https://m.primal.net/MaLY.jpg The first working prototype BTClock (Jun-2023) https://m.primal.net/MaLH.jpg One of the fist kits we sold (Aug-2023) https://m.primal.net/MaLL.jpg Our fist tests with our spacial made E-Papers with front light (Dec-2023) https://m.primal.net/MaLs.jpg (Dec-2023 / Jan-2024) https://m.primal.net/MaMF.jpg (Dec-2023 / Jan-2024) Fast forward: https://m.primal.net/MaLt.jpg https://m.primal.net/MaMV.jpg Full redesign for Frontlight support and also move to Full SMD instead of "through hole" components (Jun-2024)

you copied someone else’s work and targeted them for having an expensive product. stop crying and build something that’s original. language and framing above sound like a 5 year old tattletail

Because its hard with a clock?! Do a web image search on clock. All the competitor clocks look so similar. But hey, innovation is inspiration by some other insights. For me it's the attitude from Bitcoiners and Nostr. I thought most are free open source and V4V minded. Some don't. Shit happens.

They are not blatant copies, they are homages. 😌 I don't see Rolex crying. https://m.primal.net/MaaC.jpg https://m.primal.net/MaaE.jpg https://m.primal.net/MaaF.jpg https://m.primal.net/MaaG.jpg https://m.primal.net/MaaH.jpg https://m.primal.net/MaaI.jpg

Law is retarded, I mean subjective, which means the validity of your position depends on the opinion of your audience. So trademark infringement depends on the likelihood ofconfusionn wrt the source of the goods (who sold the goods) They consider various factors but my fav factor for noninfringement here is the degree of purchaser care. Anyone dropping $400 on a CLOCK (i mean wtf, seriously?) is bound to exercise more care than making a regular purchase. They'll exercise more care and realize that BTClock and blockclock are different/vendors. Thank you for reading my law school essay

Wow, Djuri that is such a well written post!! A clear and precise explanation! This is behaviour that should have been left behind on the bullies playground at the Fiat schoolyard. There are proper ways for @NVK to communicate with other people who are genuine builders in the Bitcoin-only community, and that's NOT it! That's not the Bitcoin ethos, that's Fiat/BIS ethos. Interesting to note that the coinkite Block lock, has not been updated in 2 YEARS! And the 2 products could not _possibly_ be confused!! #BitCoinEthosNotFiatEthos nostr:nevent1qqst22qclvkw7p8fqhcukrcc6m8unjh0ppp72t9heq8gf89eeu82qagpzdmhxue69uhhwmm59e6hg7r09ehkuef0qgst2yn6pr8nxctzwjqq5su83qdflx8qfwwrwytwjt09y5zfsc6uggsrqsqqqqqplemg8m

In the Bitcoin industry, imitation is often seen as a catalyst for innovation, pushing companies to enhance their products. However, my experience with Coinkite's customer service has left me hesitant to engage with them further. Their abrupt discontinuation of their costly payment terminals, which I had owned for less than four months, was disappointing, especially as they failed to honor their commitment to provide a discount voucher. The sector merits a higher standard of service and integrity. Consequently, I commend nostr:nprofile1qqst2yn6pr8nxctzwjqq5su83qdflx8qfwwrwytwjt09y5zfsc6uggspypmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0v3jhyatwdejhyuewdejhgam0wf4j7qgmwaehxw309ahx7um5wgh8xct5dphkzunyv4ezucm0d5hszymhwden5te0danxvcmgv95kutnsw43z7f2mgdy's recent initiative. While I have not previously bought a btclock, this decision has certainly piqued my interest in making a purchase.

Coinkite taking down the GitHub repository of a free and open-source BTClock project is exactly why we need a GitHub alternative on Nostr. Fuck NVK, fuck Coinkite, and fuck those who support them. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzpdgj0gyv7vmpvf6gqzjrs7yp48ucup9ecdc3d6fdu5jsfxrrt3pzqythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfskuep0qqst22qclvkw7p8fqhcukrcc6m8unjh0ppp72t9heq8gf89eeu82qagsz3vy4

It doesn't need to be Nostr. We can selfhost our repos and fork other repos to host them on our machines with nostr:nprofile1qqs0gg53v9sas9uq6mq0ak7zst5d5h6m6scsvddgtu6hdd8la3f8vwcpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0d4hhxarj9ecxjmnt9uqgkqv6 Just a short presentation using nostr:nprofile1qqs9df4h2deu3aae83fmet5xmrlm4w5l9gdnsy3q2n7dklem7ezmwfcpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduq5xamn8ghj7dnvv45xs7tywde8g6rpvakkjuekw46nvar4vdhxgan6wumkxatzwpckk6rk0puhjdm2da5k7ce5x4kkkumjx3jkzepwdahxjmmwqyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wd9hxvmckqw0xz home server where bitcoin repository has been forked. https://youtu.be/UKCu7aYqjyc

Is all this doubling down necessary? I can't imagine any positive outcome by stomping on attempts to make it better. Is it really worth it? Will you now sell more clocks? Do you not want to be part of the community and at least talk about it? What do you have to lose by talking?