Regenerative farming vs industrial farming is the dilemma.  It doesn't matter whether it's animals or plants or fungus.  

You may have an idea in your mind about what it's like to slaughter & process a cow, but I promise you, it can be done very humanely, if the cow is alone, lived a happy life, & never sees it coming.  It's completely analogous to plucking, skinning, dividing and eating an avocado, one that can sustain you for 3 months. 

Industrial farmers care nothing about ecological balance or humane conditions.  They'd rather genetically mutate the things they grow to survive on depleted land, than simply let the land regenerate itself. 

 Still in my point of view it's immoral to kill. All the land used for animal feed could be used to produce plant-based food...
And yes, I totally agree: one or two cows at the farm lives a happy life, gives maybe birth to a baby cow, will give 90% of the milk to her baby, which will not be taken away from her and 10% goes to the farm-family. This is balance and I would say moral. Same with chickens etc.
But this is sadly not the norm anymore. And yes, I also agree, that monoculture is not good at all. But the food fed to cattle is mostly produces in a mono-cultural way...We got to find a balance again
 

 Plants kill. Plants farm bacteria and harvest them for various nutrients. So... I'm not sure how this lines up with your viewpoint. Going 100% plenty based tends to kill more individual creatures than if I eat one cow a year. I do not see how this can be reconciled. It makes very little sense to me.  

 the problem you are not seeing, is the plants that your cow eats! One cow eats more plants then I eat for sure...And so more plants even are killed because we feed the animal first and then kill to eat the animal...I would say it's quite paradox...   

 Uh... No. 

Cows don't kill the plants they eat, if they are left to graze. They trim down the leaves, but don't uproot the roots. In turn, their manure drops and provides food for various other creatures that increase the availability of nutrients for the grasses, which, in turn, grow healthier, which makes the cows healthier. It's an upward cycle of fertility and growth. 


So, if that's what you think, I'm not sure what the rest of your assumptions are.  

 This is a cycle that only works when there is a healthy cycle. This is only the case in the rarest of cases... Most of the time, soy and other cheap, fast-growing grains like wheat are grown and fed to the animals. Especially in winter. Most cows have never seen fresh pasture grass or touched grass with their hooves. You see that in picture books...or on very few farms.
Most of the time, the land is flooded with animal excrement. This leads to: nutrient surplus and soil damage, groundwater pollution, eutrophication of water bodies, plant damage, etc. And not only that, but also all the antibiotics and hormones that end up in the water and so in our bodies... We really need to wake up and take a look at reality...! 

 Sure, sure but more are turning away from that. As am I. I also think that anything that comes from monoculture is bad, and that is only a recent human "invention." it will pass in time. 

But, more to the point of this conversation, locally grown meat is better for everyone and everything than having everyone on the planet stay eating vegan all at once. We don't have enough arable land for that to do it in a sustainable manner, and to do it sustainably, animals must be integrated into those systems, so... I still see no reason to not eat meat.  

 Maybe you want to check out a few of these documental movies:
Earthlings
Cowspiracy
What the Health 
Forks Over Knives
The Game Changers
Dominion
Seaspiracy

Afterwards let's talk again 🙌🏼 

 Eh. I don't really have time for those. I know for a fact a few of them are just outright propaganda by linking at who funded them. 

I know I'm not going to change your mind. I appreciate the discussion. I just don't think you're correct, fundamentally. That's cool. If you are truly healthy, good. Most Vegans I run across are sickly, dim people, or, in more cases, just fat. That's so wrong. LOL  

 Too many vegans live off of packaged soy pudding and rice cakes, and stuff, but she can cook well. 

 Yes! I'm fascinated by the recipes that nostr:nprofile1qqsvdxm3m3tylhp4ptxal7ff7fwhyq4vz3cvsaygvz9adkvwgf46wccpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9uq3zamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfskuep0urhjv6 posts!  

 You're very passionate about this, which is certainly respectable. But, I would never refer to killing as immoral per se. I don't think that term fits the context of your statement properly. 

Keep in mind that maintaining a plant-based diet can have many serious negative consequences, such as a high calorie intake with very little protein, which could lead to overeating and bloating. There's also the possibility of developing unhealthy eating and sleeping patterns, experiencing a lack of ₿ vitamins and iron, high sugar intake, reduced production of essential digestive enzymes, and digestive issues that can arise.

I think It would be a good idea to prioritize your physical health over your subjective beliefs on dieting. Perhaps, you should reexamine your outlook on being vegan. Honestly, veganism never seemed reasonable to me. My two cents. 

 Hi @Lucas M I appreciate your concern. I have been a professional holistic nutritionist since 2006... My health is great. I know exactly how to feed my body to be healthy and at the same time not cause animal suffering.
Yes, there are many people who eat themselves sick. Whether omnivores, vegan or vegetarian... But that is mainly because we allow ourselves to be manipulated by the food industry. When realise and go "back to the roots", we learn to listen to our bodies again... 
I eat raw! Because what is raw is intact, alive, contains all enzymes, vitamins, minerals, trace elements etc. Sprouts, ferments etc. are full of enzymes. So don't worry about me. I don't eat any canned food or grains ⚡️ Everything I put into my vessel is organic, everything made from scratch, fresh, prepared with love... and of course delicious 🤗🌱
Oh one more thing: "Diet" means lifestyle in Latin from "diaita"🤓  

 That's fine. If all that works well for you, than keep it up! Lol I'm certainly not gonna stop eating meat. 

 Also, I understand why you hate slaughterhouses. Living conditions in industrial slaughterhouses are very substandard... for the most part. But that would just mean that killing the animal is more like an act of mercy, no? 

 It really is endless. It is akin trying to convince lions to eat grass. It will never work out well.

I was vegetarian for many years. As well as vegan for a short period of time. Went through all the emotional reasons for not eating meat. In the end even with research and eating all the supposedly right things. This is what happens.

You are never as strong as it is supposed to be unless you eat meat.

Your body  is not a resilient to disease unless you eat meat.

If you eat soy anything you are filling your body full of phytoestrogens which make you an illogical emotional mess constantly. Making hormonal imbalance ever present. Putting your emotional state of being on a never ending roller coaster. 

I was a woke soy boy that had absolutely no fucking clue what it means to be healthy and eat healthy. Once I started eating meat and avoided soy like the plague. Did I start to regain the ability to think clearly. Finally regained my masculine strength and energy. Stopped being an emotional bitch and finally manned up. 

This is how we should be. This is how I choose to remain. As an omnivore. 

 I don't do soy...  actually I eat like an animal...raw only 🌱💚 No grains... only just fruits, sprouts, veggies, seeds, nuts. No foggy brain, awake, fit, healthy, alive 🤸💃🏽🤗 

 I can empathize with that. 

Just add meat and we eat similarly. 

I try to stay close to the gaps / keto diet. But life and limited access to quality food out while running errands gets in the way sometimes. 

Although pasta is my kryptonite.  

 Make pasta from cucumber, zucchini, carrot or beets. It's so good, with cashew-alfredo sauce! Yummy!!! 

 A thousand Italians screamed out in fury. 

Wtf is cashew Alfredo sauce!?! 

 You soak cashews over night or for around 4 hours. Then blend it with water, garlic, salt, nutritional yeast (gives a cheesy flavour and is rich in all vitamin B's), a little lemon juice, pepper and a little rosemary if you like. 
Of course you can heat it...but I do it completely raw...
C'est tout 🤗  And it's sooooo yummy! Try and let me know! Oh and don't tell your Italian friends 😅  

 Vegan, carnivore, omnivore ... we are individuals and everyone can (should!) go their own way. There are way to many parameters that determine what's healthy for you, so you have to find out.

That said I assume there is some consensus on #nostr that industrial food is the problem. My small form of self-defense against this are wild plants: herbs, shrooms ...
nostr:nevent1qqsvtltlu7agvgzclvl979lyvz2y4fkgcdap4xsynkphaqwk2gxd8gcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsdl3pgkt3pk2e2pc9xl8cwf422sth2g2l4g9wa5afndvgussn66scrqsqqqqqpzccsxj 

 I agree 💚 We are individuals...Still awareness and reflection is so important. It's not only about our own personal health. We got to see the bigger picture.
Wild plants are best! These are the only non genetic modified vegetables 💚 

 What physiological differences does one individual have over another, other than state, that they "should" go their own way?