Oddbean new post about login | logout I believe providing artists, content creators, and merchants with the tools they need to connect with their audiences and publish/monetize/sell their work on nostr is where devs have a good chance of becoming more financially sustainable. Most people aren’t going to flock to a new social app to support their favorite devs (as much as I love and admire you devs, think how ridiculous that sounds anyway), but I believe many people would flock to a new social app to connect with and support their favorite artists/creators/writers. Provide an easy and streamlined way for creators to do their work and monetize it, and charge creators a fee, or take an agreed-upon split of zaps/payments, to access those premium features and analytics geared toward helping them with their business. Nostr is preferable to traditional content platforms because it mitigates the risks of middlemen having too much control over your content or seizing your “means of production” so to speak by banning or shadowbanning you, and coupled with bitcoin payments it further mitigates the risks associated with centralized payment systems. There are good generic social clients on each OS, but I believe there needs to be more specialization by enabling/empowering creators and entrepreneurs. This ought to become the primary focus of these social apps, because that in turn can drive more economic activity and user growth.
YES! Thoughts on this @garden_variety_jess ?
100%. Part of my roadmap for Corny Chat is providing more ways to allow users to monetize. Room owners can already receive direct and periodic tips. More enhancements to come...
💜🔥
the question is do we want/need/is it possible to recreate the addiction that enables other platforms to thrive? we discuss discovery on nostr but it’s not only discovery, it’s addiction to discovery
It’s my hope that we don’t need the addiction in order for projects/businesses to thrive on nostr. If the incentives are designed to serve corporate growth and advertiser interests, then maybe nostr will just be a replication of those platforms. But I think the open design and transportability of our data and social graph puts some checks and balances on the incentives here. The design limits the ability of any single app/platform on nostr to truly lock anyone in. A creator on TikTok or X or Youtube is fully at the mercy of their policies, and if something happens to their account then they have to start over on a new platform or at least with a new account. A creator using one nostr app can easily switch to a different app if the first one isn’t serving their needs.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Baking in NIP-99 product listings to creator profiles would make this SO easy. It’s one of the lowest hanging fruits out there for clients.
Yup, I also plan on supporting NIP-99 for creators merch store
Hell yeah. 🤝
You are describing my new job at FanFares and we are using NIP-99 too @calvadev⚡️ 🫡
This is the way.
How pleb put produk on nostr? https://juxtapose.store https://image.nostr.build/aa7634bc51014720abf9367c80664e375f562a9f269a0968868a0476829afa76.jpg
I'm here for this reason.
Well said, so its important to learn the [tools](nostr:naddr1qqyrxwpnxcersc3jqgsrexzf8qaaa2yrkz73dlkwrmfk6dlr0nw78njrk9l2f6ge9mq39zgrqsqqqa28drjwdt) to equip our artists and creators!
I have my own website for these reasons (OP) in part. if you set the robots.txt file up correctly then the aibots will not scrape you. most of what I see in logs is fake bots or people trying to brute force, I report every one. there are plugins to help protect graphics and text. it's doable with know how and a little help. ultimately I want to create quality art and I want quality readers. I'm not looking to please a massive number of people. quality, yes! quantity as a measure, no! imo, massive sites like meta makes funnel art and writing into generic please the masses genres, dilute art and are just sales driven. my 2 cents (maybe 2.5 🤣)
This is exactly what I want.
As a 25-year veteran video creator and online publisher, I whole-heartedly agree. I really, really need this. Though my videos don't discuss tech, I am more a power-user with an interest in tech than a normie. As such, I would love to be in any discussions in order to contribute to the creation of such tools. I have already set up a nostr nest for such discussions, but also happy to communicate by any method.
I bet this is a great note, but I didn't read it and you want to know why. No fuckin paragraph breaks. Why do some of you do this shit? Another question how do some of you read giant text walls like this without your eye crossing and your head hurting. Put some fuckin breaks in your notes/posts people. #grownostr nostr:note1e4ue6weex643dkatk944ehhcxcs9qasdul3r4r9ug9ryn8327ycsz4psrg
Best of luck competing with the network effects of established and well-capitalised corporations. Nostr might be cool tech, but it’ll remain niche until there are platforms with order of magnitude improvements in the eyes of ordinary users. Trying to reinvent the wheel will only result in wasted work. Creator platforms already exist that seek to enable monetization, so v4v is not an actual selling point for normie creators. Bitcoin is also a tough sell unless you’re already orange-pilled and own sats. It’s an uphill battle. Build something users want, that’s the only way they’ll use it. Don’t force tech down their throats because you drank the freedom tech kool aid.
nostr:note1khthu65ytu4lye776tg5rgr95gjtk6tcd4zm0hq7zy0r7qtczc9q0w296w
Yeah this is the standard response to any criticism to the echo chamber of nostr worship. I’m on here because I want freedom technology to flourish, but I also tried and failed to build freedom tech products that people want. Maybe instead of spitballing cheap ideas you actually tried to build something your perspective would change. Talk to real users instead of larping online. Value signal > virtue signal. All you have is cheap talk with no real effort behind it. Creating a future where freedom can flourish isn’t gonna happen by someone else putting in effort on your behalf.
Why are you still here? Genuine question.
Why don’t you get off your ass and try to onboard real users. Then you’ll see how hard it is to change people’s mind when it comes to the social platforms they use. Your talk is cheap. It reflects your lack of experience in actually building product and talking to users.
Why are you mad? Maybe let’s start there.
Sounds like you’re offended. How about let’s start with why you believe everyone should switch to v4v if the vast majority of creators don’t know about it and don’t care. I’ve put a lot of effort into trying to onboard artists and music producers onto different platforms and I’ve actually received their feedback. They don’t care. They mostly want to make art or music and share with the widest possible audience. Where’s your proof of work besides being inspired by a podcaster?
I’m not offended I’m confused why you’re mad. Why are you?
https://image.nostr.build/ebffe75881de1afd06f1e13614fa1b10663ed0f80ed6506a215e90a1697fb6e3.jpg
Dude are you going to insist on being a fucking asshat or have an actual conversation?
Play the victim instead of have a conversation sure Eat my shoe you clown, you’re literally just larping like a fool
Which V4V platforms did you try and onboard musical artists and producers to? And whats stopping them from pushing their music to all options legacy and V4V? Honest questions here.
Before starting Bitcoin Prediction Market my co-founder and I were iterating through a few variations of social/art/music betting webapps, which are no longer online. We tried gamifying the music/art/money interaction so as to take it a step beyond tipping, which many already had links for (paypal, buy me a coffee, pateron, etc). In gamifying the UX we thought we could make the money component more interesting. We talked to hundreds of music producers and artists and they were intrigued at the idea of receiving money, but none were interested in actually participating in a v4v economy. Their main objective was more views and more fans—they wanted to publish to the widest possible audience and gain as much reach as possible. Legacy music industry has convoluted publishing rights deals, and it gets even worse with labels. Artists are mostly chasing after fans because most people don’t care about their music anyways. Even big producers who got tiktok famous are not interested in a few sats here or there. They either want collabs with more famous artists (signed with labels and have convoluted publishing royalty deals) or they want to promote their music and get more views. Beatstars and airbit already sell the dream of licensing beats so producers can make a living (and artgrab/redbubble does for artists), and some are succeeding. If u have over 1m listens per month spotify cheques can sustain you as a solo/small artist. When we tried communicating the new digital economy pitch these artists really didn’t care. They saw the current internet as that new digital economy that already existed. I was even making money off my beats from beatstars way before v4v was a thing. Creator economy is run on paypal. The worst thing is when these artists said adding money convoluted the art and made it all about money. At the end of the day they r in the business of making art or music because they love art or music, not because they love money… They just want to make enough to do what they love, and that comes by creating a business. Unless they can find customers (fans or other artists willing to license their stuff) then u can’t make money as an artist, and it’s just a hobby u do for the love of it…
I can see you have navigated many routes and grown discouraged as any one gets when spending time and passion on such an important purpose. I’d like to instill some level of hope with Nostr clients like @wavlake and @fountain_app along with the V4V Nostr community that a lot of us are driving for. @PhantomPowerMedia is currently running artist consulting and managing out of Nashville. @OpenMike is currently doing live V4V artist onboarding through @tunestr in combination with many V4V advocates. V4V at its current state IMO is not an either or but more a value add to increase the sovereignty of artists. I’d recommended Wavlake’s telegram group as a forum to express your experience and navigate potential solutions. Whether it goes mainstream or not that doesn’t necessarily have to be the end game. But providing some revenue at the end of the day is a win for starving artists. Just my two cents.
Are you Rex Damascus?
Wen pierogie meme?
This would be optimal in my humble opinion. I have no problem sharing the sats, if it makes it easier to reach an audience without having to figure out all the technical stuff that I am too retarded to do. 🫡 #soapstr nostr:note1e4ue6weex643dkatk944ehhcxcs9qasdul3r4r9ug9ryn8327ycsz4psrg
For starters, if the artist has a website, they can self-host their art on an RSS feed, share that URL with the Podcast Index and be propagated to EVERY Podcasting 2.0 app out there including Fountain which of course shares here to Nostr. Video is enabled. There are DeMu (decentralized music) artists out there already having great success, like the selfhosted performers who pulled in 2 MILLION sats last Sunday during the v4v Battle of the Bands known as The Satellite Skirmish. No platforms required, just protocols and people. RSS is a straightforward protocol with the P20 namespace allowing infinite value splits to be added and paid via keysend, plus there's a handy template with comments they could copy when initially setting up: https://github.com/de-mu/demu-feed-template/blob/master/feed-with-comments.xml
🙌💜
RSS is a great idea, I will look more into this. Just for info, there is already Wavlake. They accept zaps and accounts are based on NOSTR: https://wavlake.com/ The app for the phone works really good, I use it often to scrooble and find new artists.
Unfortunately Wavlake doesn't surface self-hosted RSS feeds and doesn't allow artists to implement infinite value splits since they are custodial of the artist's value. Pretty UI though. It's kinda like Spotify 2.0 so I steer clear lol BUT you can hear EVERY Wavlake artist on ANY Podcasting 2.0 app and still send them sats.... Err well of course you are sending your sats to Wavlake and trusting they give 90% plus your message to the artist...
What app would you recommend to try out then?
LNBeats.com is where I go to discover new decentralized music (DeMu) and I have it downloaded as a PWA on my phone. Podcast Guru is my main Podcasting 2.0 app, but I also use Podverse and Fountain. I recommend trying multiple from the list of Podcasting 2.0 apps: https://podcastindex.org/apps
Nos has been trying to recruit Creators and Journalists into the Nostr ecosystem since May. The results have not been great for the creators or journalists who have joined. For context we onboarded most to both Nos and Primal so they could experiment with zaps in the latter. I analyzed the zaps received from all the creators and journalists in the program. The only 2 that received anything approaching V4V for their work were already on Nostr AND talk about Bitcoin as part of their art / creations. This aligns with feedback I’ve heard from other Nostr users who’ve mentioned changing what they talk about to fit in. They didn’t come here to talk about Bitcoin or Nostr development. However, in order to feel like they belong they felt the need to change what they posted here. My sense at this point is that Nostr is winning for its intended audience. It’s just that the audience isn’t that big. There’s been a huge effort to get Bitcoin enthusiasts to come to Nostr but the majority of those folks think of Bitcoin as an investment vehicle rather than revolutionary money. They want information that helps them invest not opt out of the fiat system. This latter point came from recent rounds of user research. To people outside of Nostr when they hear “censorship resistance” they think 4 Chan. Last I checked 4 Chan was the purview of teenage boys trying to be edgy and trolls. Very few creators want to associate their personal brands with that. I just looked at trending on Primal and the majority of notes are either Bitcoin or Nostr dev related OR by people in the top 10 popularity list on Nostr: Derek, Jack, Odell. If you want Nostr to grow, run an experiment for a week. Only like, repost, zap non Bitcoin or Nostr dev posts. See if your experience changes. Let’s see what Primal trending looks like at this time next week. (This of course assumes trending is based on engagement rather than the top 30 Nostr users.) To be clear there’s nothing wrong with focusing on Nostr development and Bitcoin if you are satisfied with the size of the Nostr ecosystem. And many people here are quite content. I would encourage those of you who are not to be the change you want to see. You don’t need more features, behavior change will likely kick start what you want to see.
Or be the change YOU want to see. When was the last zap you sent for content? A month ago? Why have you been on nostr for nearly a year, supposedly spearheading V4V onboarding, lecturing me about being the change I want to see, and yet you yourself have sent a total of 2k sats total? You are a hypocrite and nos users should not be trusting you to help them achieve success with V4V. https://image.nostr.build/b1d353bbe173e3dd99e00844c368488b793224839c71b0bfade241998778dc39.jpg
You are such an angry little shit head.
Fair point. I use Nos as my primary app and it doesn’t support zaps is the main reason. There are other reasons that have to do with wallet access . The assumption by this community that everyone has access to wallets legally is not an accurate one. Countries and states have different regulations when it comes to crypto and it is not a level playing field.
I appreciate that Nos has put effort toward recruiting creators but I hope that you can see the problem with your client not supporting sending zaps. If you are positioning yourselves as champions of artists/creators monetizing their content open nostr, then you need to offer payments in your app. Period. I cannot take Nos seriously currently because of that. Yes, it’s good that you mention Primal or other wallets to those you’re onboarding, but your own lack of support for the very feature that makes v4v work (payments) communicates that you don’t take it seriously, and that you would rather pawn that element of v4v off on others. This needs to be reconsidered and at a minimum implement profile zaps or some other payment service in Nos. As for different regulations when it comes to crypto, I assume you are referring to capital gains taxes in some countries. The easiest way to avoid this is to use Strike, which allows you to link your Strike wallet to your bank account and then you can make bitcoin/lightning payments directly from your USD balance. Strike also gives you an @strike.me lightning address that supports receiving zaps, and you can opt to receive them automatically as USD instead of bitcoin if that’s someone’s preference. Those funds can then be easily withdrawn to your connected bank account, without the user ever touching bitcoin in the process. It honestly should be part of every nostr onboarding process where Strike is available. Being limited to only using bitcoin payments for zaps has been one of my frustrations about v4v on nostr, because that hinges the success of it on bitcoin adoption. The solution then, if an artist wants to monetize content on nostr, is to either adjust what they’re publishing to appeal more to people here who zap (not ideal), onboard more people to bitcoin, and/or find ways to accept payments in ways other than bitcoin. The UX needs to continue improving in that regard as there is some friction there. But the promise of having access to a global audience with which you can freely communicate and send payments is powerful beyond anything else on the internet.
I’ve come here as a photographer and a photography publication owner of @noicemag. I wanted to try out nostr to see if I could foster a new community here and it’s been slow but there’s interest happening. Lots of new connections made which I appreciate and I hope to continue to learn and grow here as time goes on. I’ve really enjoyed it so far.
Maybe it's just all about the algorithms they know from the other channels? I mean in regards to "dumb, silly, naked" content with clickbait titles is played out the most on legacy media. Here it is the other way around, and you do not feed an algorithm but people that will follow you and stay even after "the hype" is over? And last but not least: Of course it is harder, when there is no entity that earns money with your content, and programs people to like content that is not good for the overall society. I mean: When your normal content is binge eating, stupid challenges, or reacting to another video.. No wonder that not many people like your content here. Here we have to curate ourselves what we see. So we won't feed us with this shit.
It really bothers me I can’t zap as much as I want to. But there were a lot of people I could t even give a reward too for exceptional help
Awesome 👏 Followed and looking forward to seeing what you post.
