Nothing in nothing out? 

 Yeah, maybe that’s a better model. I dunno what such a thing might cost, but I was assuming it might be easier to get over the hump for a new thing like this.

core idea is that paying for your electricity would be like paying for your lottery tickets, no other technical understanding/analysis required 

 has someone written up a beginners guide to ecash mints like cashu? I’ve played around with https://cashu.me a bit just to get a feel for how these tools work (and I’ve become a big fan of the ideas through that hands-on experience), but I’m not sure if it’s generally “ready to go” or what the frontier of problems being considered/discussed are 

 super protocols, otoh… 

 ha, wait is that supposed to be me? Looks more like Lex Fridman, tbh 😝 

 primal with reply
https://m.primal.net/IDuI.png 

 damus without reply
https://m.primal.net/IDuH.png 

 note ID

note12gwfjjw59xw2qu752dz03xkd8rp5a3h4c7h0w58cgm2g0ghcy0us6f7hkc 

 Thinking about things like VPNs/IP address hiding from relays? 

 Sounds right to me. Basic messaging protocol (which nostr already is!) is a pretty good foundation for building momentum in a lot of different directions. Once momentum is built it’s probably easier to get consensus about prioritizing work/consensus on NIPs. 

 yeah, i’m still there plenty cuz my existing networks publish there and don’t publish here (yet?) 

 I don’t think there are going to be features that can/will be nostr exclusive besides maybe zapping. Existing large scale platforms seem unlikely to introduce zapping. Any given other feature such as disappearing photos, short videos, etc. can easily be co-opted by at-scale platforms.

but getting creators paid via zaps seems like a big/different opportunity that no at-scale platform would be likely to chase 

 oh yeah, i think this is important. i’ve seen it discussed, but don’t know much about implementations currently available. i’ve been thinking of writing up some observations/ideas here. thanks for the idea! 

 yeah, experienced entrepreneurs building can really help. tho the ways to build businesses here feels far more uncertain than in traditional tech which is why it probably hasn’t attracted tons of traditional entrepreneurial energy. it’s more niche/fringe/hacker entrepreneurs (which personally i love!)

do you have categories of content you’d like to make more? stuff you’d like to hear? for example, i was thinking it’d be fun if there were a book club of sorts on nostr 

 Oh yeah, I’ve been discussing puzzle/testing ideas with friends for a long time. I’ve had in mind it’d be fun to start a “Nostr/Bitcoin Global Gameshow” where you can compete with everyone to win sats. I think it’d be really fun! 

 😝😬🫡 

 yeah, i bet if there were more bridges with the existing worlds it would help people discover the magic.

tho obviously incentive challenges for existing networks to share their monopolies 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

 Oh yeah, “magic wand” means let’s hear all your best ideas. Don’t filter on your side, just let ‘em rip! 

 ha, i did ask for it. i guess i don’t really agree with the architecture of bluesky so i have a tough time getting excited about spending time there. nostr looks much more promising to me. i just suspect there are things that would help it that i haven’t thought of and id like to hear more ideas. maybe something discussed would inspire someone (maybe me?) to take them up 

 oh hell yeah! i think games would be a big unlock. casual stuff 

 oh, that sounds useful. would that data fit into a an existing kind/list @JeffG 

 how would you describe the importance to a n00b? 

 i suspect more diversity of content types that appeal to different consumers, more unique experiences that only work in an open protocol like this… stuff like that. today i like the nostr protocol/architecture, but the content is very narrow to satisfy my broader interests.

then stuff like user retention and growth would follow and the flywheel would compound 

 🪄 

 meaning you don’t like bitcoin experiments? other than that i don’t see much monetization floating around here 

 in addition to technical ideas do you have areas of content you’d like to see here or do you suspect that takes care of itself over time? 

 Can any of the goals of these commerce ideas be rough-prototyped before the nips are agreed/implemented? 

 open source magic wands 

 I’ve been thinking about this. I suspect some sort of high quality nostr-exclusive content could be helpful. i.e. if you want to see thing X, you’ve gotta be on Nostr to see it.

What might be the best type of content for this? I’m interested in your ideas on categories/topics (gardening, piano, comedy, etc.) and/or format (podcast/video/livestream) 

 Yeah, I agree that discussing the importance of free speech outside of nostr can be good for helping attract people who are curious about these topics to know about nostr.

I think my account on X is nerfed from talking about nostr too much there. 😝

email/blogs/substack/YouTube might be other non-nerfed ways to discuss more 

 I was just asking about video hosting. I know there are a bunch of people running media servers, but I think it’s still challenging to get media served in such a censorship resistant way as relays do with simple text messages 

 Often valuable things are really hard so it’s good to be ready to work hard.

But sometimes very valuable things emerge from novel combinations that end up turning into gushers 

 agreed, getting more people running relays would contribute to the network’s resilience/strength 

 Oh cool… so this is like onlyfans, but operated on nostr/bitcoin? Makes a ton of sense to me. Have you use OF and OS? What are the main differences in your experience? 

 subtle censoring is the worst. harder to call out, but still shapes behavior (and ultimately thought) 

 Ooo.. how would that work? Is the goal to enable games or other apps to be somehow more natively linked? 

 I’ve never heard of a “Barney breakdown”… is it like a beginner’s guide? I’m guessing reference to the big purple t-rex? 

 Any type of content (topic/format) outside of bitcoin that you’re most excited to see here? I think this could be a major impact. Especially if it were particularly interesting an exclusive to nostr. Could draw more people in. Come for the content, stay for the freedom? 

 What kind of education are you trying to bring over? 

 I don’t think of Nostr as a privacy tool. I consider it more a censorship resistant speech tool. So I can say what I want and be pretty sure anyone could read it, but I don’t think it does a great job at helping me hide who I am… unless I create some sort of nym/anon account? 

 this is a good use of a magic wand 🪄🤓 

 Yeah, part of the decentralized part is that no one is really responsible to be “the welcome wagon”. Some apps like Primal do a nice job of recommending active accounts to follow. Have you tried that? 

 Oh, that’s a great one.

In the same line of thinking, I thought it would be fun to have a multiple choice quiz game that we could all play together. Not with a super serious goal like earning a license, rather just for fun. But probably easy to organize 

 I bet if we organically discover a good way to “market” through organic experiments if any of them required more funding to scale they could probably attract funding

So what are the best marketing ideas to try? I’ve been pushing on some attempts at this with YouTube videos I’ve made, but I’ve barely scratched the surface on what’s possible. I’ve been trying to think of ways to make a bigger impact here so I’d love to hear your ideas. 

 Agreed. Always fun to see new features, but I suspect there’s something in making it more accessible and helping people see the magic/“why” more easily. 

 Most content creators want to be where they can achieve the greatest reach. Today that’s not nostr. So maybe it’s a bit of a chicken-egg thing.

I’ve been wondering if it would be interesting to have some sort of nostr-exclusive content. Not sure exactly what that is yet, but I’d love to brainstorm more about it.

But I think the first creators would be here more for ideological reasons or because they are disempowered by existing platforms. If you’re succeeding on X/YouTube why bother switching? Maybe we need to nurture an emerging class of creators who can win here. 

 probably out there somewhere ;) 

 Yeah, I think nostr offers a place for a lot of non-payment information to be published that could be useful for innovating on payments technologies. More privacy, more scalability, different trust tradeoffs.

e.g. the metadata to help people eval which ecash mints they want to use could be published to nostr 

 Seems like Substack is winning a lot of hearts and minds here. What would you tell a journalist who is evaluating going all-in on Substack versus Nostr? 

 I think so. But I think a lot more could be done to accelerate its success. I think everyone who shares publicly on the internet should be using nostr to do so. We’re still very far from that future. 

 Agreed. I think we need more algorithms and more choice about which algorithms to use. Algorithms are not the dirty word that some people assume. Transparent algorithms can be a huge benefit to helping UX. Closed/controlled algorithms that serve corporate network interests are the problem. 

 Yup, I want this! Though haven’t really seen a very nostr-native way to do it yet.

Also, the recommendations/referrals are a big reason that creators publish to YouTube. It helps grow their audience quickly if they have keywords/people that are already known. 

 Ha, that’d be fun. But to attract big-audience creators we would need a value proposition that serves them. The current systems aren’t really failing them? 

 Seems like a lot of good clients on both platforms. Is there a specific app you want for a specific platform that seems missing/delayed? 

 Slowly, then suddenly.

I don’t cheer the death of the internet, but I worry it’s coming. With all the fast/cheap/free content generation by LLMs I think within the next 10 years it’s going to be tough to believe anything you read in public (unless it’s a cryptographically signed message by someone who you’ve already decided to trust 😉) 

 Ha... we’re almost there 😉 

 share your project here, Dawn? 

 Agreed. It’ll take time. But we can also be proactive about taking steps to accelerate its success. 

 What do you have in mind for how this contributes to nostr? Not opposed to the idea, just want to hear more about where it leads 

 Oh yeah, I wish specific note subscriptions were more broadly implemented/accessible. Maybe there’s already a NIP? 

 @brugeman what’s the state of search both within your projects and across the ecosystem? We haven’t caught up on this in a while 

 It’ll all get messier with LLMs

Soon we’ll need to just search across signed messages, filtered by webs-of-people-we-trust 

 Hmm... I’m not sure I get what you have in mind. You want to write messages that would get published later when you connect? 

 Do you have your own “magic wand” dreams, Vanessa? 

 I’d love to see more content diversity like you point out here! 💪 

 Did you get it setup alright? 

 Happy to hear that. Welcome! 

 yes 

 It’s may be chaotic, but there’s a better future for everyone on the other side 

 Known downsides of course, but I suspect there are more unknown upsides 

 @Max is a real one 🙅‍♂️🪑 

 he’s just a reflection of a system on autopilot 

 👏 this looks awesome