Oddbean new post about login | logout I've been diving down the relatively new #Syntropic #Agroforestry rabbit hole after meeting a Bitcoiner IRL who's practicing it. It uses a similar approach to the #permaculture food forests Geoff Lawton advocates. It also seems to be more practical in how it's managed to produce food. Less hippy, more commercially productive. It originates from Brazil but seems pretty popular in Australia, NZ & Costa Rica. Keen to see #Syntropy (the opposite of entropy) discussed on Nostr. I'm not sure if there's anyone on here that's also diving into it.
Your niches never cease to amaze me.
It's weird man. I don't seek them out, they just kinda knock on my awareness until I can't ignore them anymore. There are no coincidences & sometimes I find myself on a journey before I even realise. I'd pretty much walked away from permaculture when I went down the carnivore rabbit hole. I didn't have the time to build & manage a food forest. I also valued meat more & didn't value fruit & root vegetables enough to persist.
Never heard of it. Going to follow though. Thanks.
It's essentially leveraging & managing the natural succession of soil to forest. It uses support species to produce bio mass in situ, provide shade/shelter for short, medium & long term crops. Systems are reset lightly or heavily depending on the primary crops you're focusing on & what you're wanting. This provides bio mass above ground but also collectively stimulates all plants in the system via the roots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSPNRu4ZPvE
Caveat - I'm still a newbie & don't know what I don't know
I host field trips for local schools at a nonprofit organic farm and food pantry, I'm trying to get them to flip the place on its head cause what they've been doing hasn't been yielding what we want. Maybe this is the path
It looks very compelling. I'm only just putting some of it into practice now.
What USDA zone are you? We're like 8b. I've got a moringa going in our greenhouse that I want to split up and propagate come spring, start a couple sections with them as the tall shade role. Not sure if I can get microbes to actually get the roots fixing nitrogen though. I saw a lot of Phoenix permie dudes on YouTube with moringa but I think it might get too cold here for them.
I'm in the subtropics of SE Queensland, Australia. No frosts or hurricanes here. We get a long dry spell followed by plenty of rain mid to late summer. I'd guess that it's a similar climate to coastal Florida. Ice cream bean grows really quick here & doesn't die back in winter. I have a Moringa growing but it doesn't seem to love where it is right now. I've put cuttings of it into my Syntropic system. Better to over plant than under plant. I didn't think Moringa was a nitrogen fixer but it makes sense given the nitrogen content of the leaves. I've been looking at Tithonia Diversifolia (Mexican Sunflower). It seems to fix nitrogen & produces a lot more bio mass than Moringa. There also seems to be both sterile & fertile varieties & I don't want it spreading by seed. Both varieties readily root from cuttings or fallen stems so even the sterile variety can be hard to control.
Oh I'm probably just wrong about the moringa nitrogen fixing then. I've got a packet of the tithonia rotundifolia waiting out for spring. I tried red cowpeas for a cover crop but we have a huge issue with invasive Russian bindweed here, as well as it's cousin morning glory, and they just took over the field. I learned from it though and have better plans for more direct watering next season that I think should help.
Having just read some introductory information about this, if the goal is mimicking natural forests more than silvopasture systems the overall yield will be lower when compared with the latter. Protein production will be restricted in a forest ecosystem. Greatest diversity and yields are accomplished at the edges. Bias: aspiring carnivore
AFAICT, it's a tool to achieve your goal on your unique peice of land. People use the principles to achieve many outcomes in many climates & soil types. I'm not interested in greening deserts or growing fruit in arid environments. I want pasture for cattle but I also value some plants (mainly fruits & starchy tubers these days). I'm thinking these rows of productive trees will be positioned reasonably close to my future house. I'm still not sure how I'd integrate cattle into the mix. I'm just learning & applying some of the theory right now. I don't have pasture yet but I have some time & 2 acres of pretty rugged & largely unproductive land. It's a good opportunity to make mistakes while figuring out what value I can skim from it.
Ok, your interpretation of it sounds basically identical to restoration agriculture by Mark Shepard (rows of trees and pasture, savannah silvopastures) which is actually what we've been working towards the past half decade here... Slowly.
Have you come across soil food web? It will compliment what you doing very nicely. In the past I've made hot compost using principles from sfw. Excellent results. Check it out. 👌
No but I'm very aware of the power of plant exudates in increasing soil life. It's the magic behind regenerative farming with cattle. I'm also a big fan of heavy mulching although I used to bring a lot onto the property. A big difference with Syntropic Ag is growing the mulch on site. Healthy, vibrant soil means healthy, vibrant plants. I'm a bit lucky in my climate. Everything explodes with life after the dry season. The trick is keeping things thriving during the dry. Shade & mulch is key.
Yes mulch is excellent. If you have access to wood chips you can also use that to create a layer above the soil protects soil and locks in moisture stops soil getting too dry too fast. Pretty much emulating a forrest. Sounds great what you doing and you have land too. Brilliant. If you can get livestock cows or sheep, then pretty much create a cycle between. Can use manure for compost . soil and, milk etc. Mini farm. Good plan you've got become self sufficient.
We're currently implementing a 0.5 Ha SAF system, and just happen to be hosting a course on it this weekend. My wife & I did a PDC with Geoff Lawton a few years ago, acquired some land, did a SAF course, were blown away by the health and abundance of a young system nearby.... we knew we had to do the same. We're also in the sub-tropics, but a little colder than you. Were get a couple of weeks of light frost in mid winter.
Nice! I knew there'd be other Bitcoiners looking at SAF. It just makes so much sense. I've pretty much planted out my first row & now I'm looking at my existing fruit trees & how I can plant some support trees for them. I'm thinking I'll leverage ice cream bean a lot because I have a mature fruiting tree. The 2 fruit trees (jackfruit & Pomelo) either side of it are the healthiest on the property. Are you in the US?
I think I've nearly completed planting out my subtropical #Syntropic food system for the moment. I scored a new variety of banana, some Qld arrowroot & a pocket full of pigeon pea seeds yesterday, which are now planted. There's an emphasis on building out the placenta of your system before adding in high value trees. I've added some citrus, avocado, a Brazilian custard apple, yellow mangostein & an Abui tree. We're heading into summer (hot & wet) so I think they'll do ok. Most of what I've planted has cost me zero dollars because I used what I already had growing somewhere else. Some of these produce food & all produce biomass which will feed the system & provide cover for the soil. Most were planted for their bio mass & root exudates rather than any food outcome. I could eat or sell the food if I had to, but it's not the primary goal. What I've planted for low/ground layer: - Comfrey - Yakon - Ginger - Tumeric - Taro - Vetiver grass What I've planted for medium layer: - Ice cream bean (every 40cm - this will play a major role & can be thinned if necessary - it probably won't be allowed to get high) - Cassava - Pigeon pea - Moringa cuttings - Mulberry cuttings - Banana - Tamarillo - Canistel (seeds from fruit bought) What I've planted for high/emergent layer: - Eucalyptus - Acacia (getting a few volunteers popping up too) - Macadamia (from nuts grown locally) My job now is to keep the grass & vines from dominating before what I've planted can establish itself & shade them out. I'll largely be doing this carefully using a scythe rather than uprooting them. Over time some plants will die out from shade as the system matures. I think my biggest mistake was not planning out more logic for where I put stuff. I'll see how big a mistake this was with time I guess. My next row/system will likely be created a little more strategically. Always be learning, growing & expanding. nostr:nevent1qqszdwaeeyc97nv630actsvzkaa7xcal58ck6c3l6rly42nawc0lmcspzdmhxue69uhhwmm59e6hg7r09ehkuef0qgsfdjrhvhvspvtf7h7a30qeh7tmmrrdzcllg94gn4zuhd72cjxfgvcrqsqqqqqpxf52vs