Oddbean

In Jade’s defense, only part of your seed is stored on their server and it’s encrypted. You could also build your local oracle server, so in theory it would never need to go online. I haven’t used Jade and don’t know the technical nuances, but seems to be similar to a ‘recovery’ option Foundation devices has, and even somewhat similar to the new BitKey, although bitkey uses 3 multistage (one on their server, one on your phone, one on the rock). I think it comes down to preference. Personally I don’t like my hardware wallet to touch the internet at all, ever, but for newbies, not losing your seed, and ease of transactions, it may be OK…

Ive survived using encrypted usb sticks with the wallet file on them to access my electrum wallet offline and a watch only wallet to transfer news of transactions by means of air gap. Im realizing that my initial entry into the world of securing funds was probably the best lol

Yes really. Do yourself a favor. Get yourself some real cold storage hardware wallet. Your future self might thank you :) These are the basics in bitcoin from over a decade ago. Trezor are actually the ones who implemented alot of the standards in Bitcoin.

If calling out poor practices and recommending good ones is hubris and passive aggressiveness to you, then I will stop immediately. Sorry to have hurt your feelings grasshopper. I did not expect this from an orthodox brother in Christ. God bless and good lucky with your private keys on a usb stick. "Don't plant flowers in someones garden who won't bother watering them".

I think we might have misunderstood each other, and I jumped to conclusions. I apologize, and quickly forgive your comments after my rebuke, knowing they came from a place of hurt that I caused. The end goal on everyone's mind is to secure their funds to the best of their ability with the information they have and the resources provided to them. If there was objective consensus on which device was the most reliable and secure, then I suspect we'd all be on the same page. The problem we run into is that we have a wide variety of hardware wallets available, and seemingly all of them have significant issues, Trezor included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyQo95wfSaI The universal consensus, or "statement of faith" if you will in bitcoin is "Don't Trust, Verify". Unfortunately, Nostr recommendations are often given as marketing propaganda, not because the user themselves have truly verified for themselves. I would venture to guess that most people on here might have the computer science background to semi understand the code if provided open source, however, not many people would be able to identify a back door if they saw it. There are for profit companies behind these resources that are just one government request away from building a backdoor. So yes, I agree that my setup isn't the utopian gold standard that we wish existed, but it's the best I've managed to verify within my limited understanding of the hardware/software, and is resistant to necessary software updates.

All products have issues. The goal is too choose the safest one when it comes to your life savings. I do have a computer science background and I chose Trezor because of fully offline seed storage, opensource hardware, firmware and software options. There is consensus on best practices, not on nostr thats for sure because all kinds of people can join posing as professors and spreading misinformation. Consensus among qualified, certified authorities regarding best practices definitely exists. However, the fact that you have a hardware wallet at all makes your funds countless times more secure than those of plebs who dont use a hardware wallet (ie: home brew encrypted usb stick lol) Merry Christmas :)

I think there are easier and safer options out there from my experience. For both experts and newbies. I dont want any part of my seed anywhere except in my control. otherwise, brute forcing the seed is that much easier. People are worried about super-computers, and others are giving half their seed to third parties lol What an interesting diversity of bitcoiners here 😄

I re-read your message regarding not knowing the technical nuances. I personally do know the technical nuances for most hardware wallets and always advise people to use something that is fully open source hardware, firmware, and software as well as an opensource secure element. Currently the new Trezor is the only one out there with all this in mind and fully offline seed storage. Also the most user friendly and versatile for newbies.

"It is impossible to hack a Trezor without being able to touch the Trezor. It doesn't matter if it is connected to your computer, and the hacker has control of your computer. They won't be able to physically touch/press the confirm button the Trezor. (Nor would they be able to put in the pin number if it is a model T) Now, if you have your seed phrase saved on your computer... that's a different story."

Coldcard actually uses two different third-party, known elements, and overall there is more risk plugging your signing device into a computer than using psbt / chip transfer/ QR codes. Personally, I don’t want my signing device to touch the computer. Some people might be more likely to lose their seeds, so a device like Jade or BitKey might be ideal. Ultimately I think all the devices we have talked about are very secure, and it is just a matter of preference. “The COLDCARD Mk4, unlike its predecessors and other products like it on the market, has two Secure Elements (SE) : Microchip’s ATECC608B (which we will refer to as SE1) and Maxim’s DS28C36B (referred to as SE2)” https://blog.coinkite.com/understanding-mk4-security-model/

Only 1/3 of the Trezor devices currently available has a SE. I see nothing on their site about the SE being open source. Last time I checked, a few months ago, there were no open source SEs on the market anywhere.

Correct 1 out of the 3 optjons they offer has an SE for those that think they need an SE. Hahaha you obviously don't dig deep enough. You could have always looked into what kind of SE they use, and the license associated with a quick web search. Just read the headlines. Good for your "toxic bitcoiner". 😆