Oddbean new post about login | logout Two things that we're building: - There are going to be Cashu mints that will only be reachable via Nostr. They won't have IP addresses but npubs. - There are going to be Cashu wallets that synchronize state across devices via nostr. No cloud. Not everyone will like this but it doesn't matter because it can't be stopped.
Nostr is becoming an incredible communication layer. nostr:nevent1qqs8pctg27007nxau7vfvkj8z4s004mt9v5an6nhpag7et8tp238f6cpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3q2rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sxpqqqqqqzk4mlpa
It’s becoming THE communication layer.
Hot 🔥🔥🔥
will #Cashu be eventually integrated into #Primal or #Amethist?
so any token can be intercepted by one or several relays?
There is likely to be encryption that ensures only intended parties can handle the ecash tokens.
Indeed!
1. Fucking awesome. 2. Nice. Why would people not like these developments? Nostr is not a silver bullet, but maybe it is the first step. The only thing I can think of is that as mints hide themselves further from our overlords, they may realise that their customers don't have any way to keep them accountable.
Downsides might be congestion and i think @fiatjaf would likely have a "fit to purpose" argument, where using nostr for this and ( possibly expanding the protocol parameters in the future if this gets popular) overextends the censorship routing and message delivery focus of the relay structure (the way the lightning project and its advocates did to Bitcoin) But i don't want to speak for fiatjaf. It's great to innovate but it's also great to be vigilant that certain things are building their own path to eventually forking.
🤔 I see your thought process, but ecash is just data and especially if it is encrypted data, I don't see how you could fork really, there are unofficial event types that aren't officially documented, is that a fork? Relays that support features that others don't, but unlike Bitcoin, there's no consensus thing to say "I only talk to people who do X and don't do Y" Also, with regards to being any sort of transmitter of anything, the mint should be the first target. Otherwise everything is a transmitter including whatsapp.
👀 nostr:nevent1qqs8pctg27007nxau7vfvkj8z4s004mt9v5an6nhpag7et8tp238f6cpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvuhsygzsm98u9kzcp35zkpc62shck8335gqtq5yt4w26xwl0pp2a72qavvpsgqqqqqqsv2xq7h
https://m.primal.net/IFPz.jpg You wouldn't relay a nut (Except if you don't know what's happening because it's encrypted and there are tens of thousands of other users sending DMs between each other being the perfect noise level for a few nuts to be sent around on a relay). nostr:note1wrsks4u7laxdmeucjedyw9tq7ltkk2efm848wr63ajkwkz4zwn4sr0w084
> - There are going to be Cashu mints that will only be reachable via Nostr. They won't have IP addresses but npubs. wait, that sounds f u c k i n g a m a z i n g, how does that work?
You give mins nostr key pairs, they connect to relays and all communication between you and the mint happen via end to end encrypted DMs (but we can use a different kind so that those don't show up alongside other normal DMs) I don't know the special details of the implementation that Calle and team will be going with, but that's the general idea https://m.primal.net/IFUN.jpg
Think of the children!
Perv!
Using nostr for this is so powerful. Just realized this when building a DVM. It can run anywhere (behind firewalls and VPNs) not reachable directly from the internet.
So what would the Mint be directly connected to then? Relay(s)?
@nielliesmons I suppose the mint would be something like a DVM or bot that does all operations over encrypted events (similar to DMs).
Blabberbot problem nostr:nevent1qqs8pctg27007nxau7vfvkj8z4s004mt9v5an6nhpag7et8tp238f6czypgdjn7zmpvqc6ptqud9gtutrcc6yq9s2z96h9dr80hss4wl9qwkxhyueau
Congrats on this you are pushing people towards using altcoins.
explain
To me it seems more like an attempt at achieving what altcoins already provide but still staying in the Bitcoin system.
Can't tell where exactly you've gone wrong here... Are you calling cashu tokens altcoins? Or are you saying that bitcoin is becoming too complex for people to use anymore?
Because putting bubble in a bubble doesn't help to spread money.
This would be fantastic. Wonder if you could do a Fedimint over nostr?
Can do that today with lightning.pub and ShockWallet, and no shitcoins! But you knew that already 😉
Nostr over LoRA only private banking gdamn https://image.nostr.build/3e6affed688b18017479c1cfb6c5f6806ed188a4b051bbc5dfa50d3cae4263a9.jpg
Devil’s advocate isn’t full state of the mint critical? Or no
🖕
🤘
no IP sounds gr8 / IP was bugging me
Nostr is the new Internet Protocol
Everytime i see a post from calle I say it like Dave Chappelle said "kobe". nostr:nevent1qqs8pctg27007nxau7vfvkj8z4s004mt9v5an6nhpag7et8tp238f6cpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzypgdjn7zmpvqc6ptqud9gtutrcc6yq9s2z96h9dr80hss4wl9qwkxqcyqqqqqqgzqtpyv
is the cashu mint also able to mint more tokens than it can back with real bitcoin? and if so, could you please explain the reasoning behind it? thanks!
Unless there's something in the code that limits this, there's no reason why it couldn't. I'm sure I saw an approach to a proof of reserves for a mint somewhere.
so i dont get it at all why we would create a system like that. this screams exit scam and rug pull so loud that even SBF can hear it in his cell...
not really. it's a solution to improve scaling and privacy. it makes sense but there are tradeoffs.
why not really? it is fiat money, is that cool now?
It's a custodial scaling solution. We strongly embrace legacy custody scaling solutions today. Most people use them. You're using one. These legacy custody solutions have zero privacy and zero censorship resistance. eCash is a better custodial solution. Strong privacy and full censorship resistance. Nobody is claiming it's non-custodial. It has its place and is massive improvement to what most people use today, including yourself.
But the mint still runs on a server, right? How is the npub linked to the server (IP)?
You could probably put the server behind Tor for additional privacy. Mint to relay communication would still be needed afaik understand it.
The mint is running on a server, but it's not accessible via IP. You communicate with the mint using its npubs via nostr relays. afaiui. 🫂
You can't communicate with a server without having its address. You might be able to discover the address via another route that isn't traditional DNS (pigeon comes to mind. Or Nostr), but you ultimately need the IP to connect to it.
Of course you can communicate with a server without having it's address! In the same way that I'm communicating with you without knowing your address: using a #nostr relay to deposit and get the notes.
Sure, if two parties rely on a third party to act as a sort of proxy to hold messages for them, then both parties can just connect to the proxy. That is a form of "communication", but it's indirect. I was talking about making direct connections, because that seemed to be the spirit of the OP
Exactly, that's what a #nostr relay is for. And the spirit of the OP (cc. nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpremhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet59uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp069f2j4) is about communicating using a relay knowing just the npub, without needing a direct connection. 🫂
I missed a detail in your comment: > The mint is running on a server, but it's not accessible via IP. > You communicate with the mint using its npubs **via nostr relays**. You're saying messages intended for the mint are stored on proxies, and the mint will ask the proxies for said messages. The messages don't ever go directly from users to the mint. Okay yea that makes sense.
Can someone explain this to me?
#nostr is an Identity Layer over IP. We finally have something to work on and forget about IP addresses, DNS records and public Certificates Authorities. Few. 🫂 nostr:nevent1qqs8pctg27007nxau7vfvkj8z4s004mt9v5an6nhpag7et8tp238f6cprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqgs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccrqsqqqqqp95tlp9
I want.
Base layer censorship resistance, let's go! nostr:note1wrsks4u7laxdmeucjedyw9tq7ltkk2efm848wr63ajkwkz4zwn4sr0w084
I like it so much, but to test it in a more adversarial environment I will join the "try to stop calle" gang so stop now calle or you will face conseguences...
ehy I commented in a months old note, not cool at all
Next gen shit BRAVO Dr Calle!!!!!!!!
Fedimint should be taking notes nostr:nevent1qqs8pctg27007nxau7vfvkj8z4s004mt9v5an6nhpag7et8tp238f6cpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtczypgdjn7zmpvqc6ptqud9gtutrcc6yq9s2z96h9dr80hss4wl9qwkxqcyqqqqqqg6wg0me
You can take away my DNS. You can even take my IP. But you can't take away my npub. nostr:note1wrsks4u7laxdmeucjedyw9tq7ltkk2efm848wr63ajkwkz4zwn4sr0w084
The second is in the process of being realized. 👀 cc nostr:nprofile1qqs04xzt6ldm9qhs0ctw0t58kf4z57umjzmjg6jywu0seadwtqqc75spzpmhxue69uhnzdps9enrw73wd9hszynhwden5te0wp6hyurvv4cxzeewv4eszynhwden5te0wfjkccte9enrw73wd9hsxv8qkt nostr:nevent1qqs8pctg27007nxau7vfvkj8z4s004mt9v5an6nhpag7et8tp238f6cpz4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wchsygzsm98u9kzcp35zkpc62shck8335gqtq5yt4w26xwl0pp2a72qavvpsgqqqqqqsxgjnwm
Legooooo 🔥
Don't fully understood how it work ... is it like this? Alice want to send the token to Carol that it is with mint Bob . Alice cashu wallet sends the token via nostr to Carol nostr pubkey. Carol cashu wallet redim Alice token by accessing Carol nostr privatekey. Carol wallet can now sign token as its own. But at this point doesn't Carol wallet need to access directly to Bob mint using its mint address (ip clearnet or onion address)? Isn't the wallet that known his own nostr key?
Look into NIP-46 ;) you can expose RPC over Nostr https://nostr-nips.com/nip-46
I hate to be the pain in the ass who makes this pedantic point because I generally want the things being said here, but: That IS a "cloud". A network of remote devices, the vast majority of which are not yours, that provide compute and data for each other or for edge devices. That's a cloud. The term "cloud" has unfortunately become synonymous with "centralized MEGACORP spying servers", but it could just as fairly be applied to a dark net of voluntary peer-to-peer nodes. My point being: let's recapture the "cloud" and celebrate it, rather than tie our hands behind our backs trying to avoid "other people's computers". Relays are other people's computers. This is good. nostr:nevent1qqs8pctg27007nxau7vfvkj8z4s004mt9v5an6nhpag7et8tp238f6cpzemhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejz7q3q2rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sxpqqqqqqzau8xld
What does the state of a piece of ecash look like?
The state can be defined as the unspent ecash currently in your wallet. If you store that state as a series of state changes in relays, it's hard to get exactly the same thing back.
Not sure what you are talking about. Nostr does not provide consistency but the mint has the discretion to honor nuts in any order it wants to and so ... if you broadcast a nut, the first one the mint fancies to process a redeem for gets it. I don't see a lot of state syncing here.
