Oddbean

How does this specific strategy *blow-up* like FTX shitcoin trading? Missing out on bitcoin appreciation is one thing … but bitcoin / cash to avoid the liquidated long positions doesn’t seem like a terrible strategy if an entity had the tools and calculations to do it. The market eventually will build these tools which *should* smooth the volatility of bitcoin (without dampening bitcoin’s overall success and limiting the profitability of these strategies overall). Not advocating for the common person or common business staying humble and stacking sats but if you have the tools, the exchange, etc. like swan does I do see how this could work. Am I wrong? Would appreciate a legit conversation here…not just the typical maxi response (I consider myself a maxi and don’t trade … I just use swan and have recommended swan for years).

SBF IS CLEARLY NOT A PERFECT ANALOGY. TO ME SWAN REEKS OF AN INVESTOR TARGETED SCAM. RELEASE BULLSHIT NUMBERS. DONT BACK THEM UP. RAISE FROM INVESTORS BASED ON THEM. FAKE IT UNTIL YOU (TRY TO) MAKE IT. YES, SBF SCAMMED USERS. BUT HE ALSO SCAMMED A TON OF VENTURE FUNDS AND PRIVATE INVESTORS INTO THINKING HIS COMPANY WAS WORTH $32 BILLION.

MY CONCERN IS THAT IT SEEMS SOMETHING INCREDIBLY SKETCHY IS GOING ON AND FEW WILL SAY SHIT PUBLICLY BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF REPERCUSSIONS FROM CORY. HE OWNS THE MAJORITY OF BITCOIN INFLUENCERS.

Quick, buy the domain. nostr:nevent1qqs0mq096amm4gqtjm3kvslreqdp58j9fjmkj725c72fd0fxwhsmm7spzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgq3q0chlkc62tk7yr5m9qjc2u7rs3ufhhrq8yukeey0c5lysqkp2gumqxpqqqqqqzdwhzdz

That’s too bad I think it’d be a great conversation to listen to. That sucks if he can’t find the time to talk to the community on this with you guys. Makes me question using Swan for that reason alone

Agree. And Swan can have a place in the world of BTC. People need a place to get their coin (normal everyday people) and he promotes self custody. And I think they have tutorials & people to help with that. There’s a need for those type services. Compare it to Coinbase, which I still believe survives long term even though they are a shitcoin factory.

I'm another Swan participant since Jan 2022. And yes, I found myself having to stress over the Prime Trust fiasco...and then the jump to Fortress Trust...and now another jump. But Cory has been out there doing some decent forecasting of what other companies are doing and that they would rug-pull. And as much as we'd love it if everyone just stayed humble and stacked sats. His appearances on main stream channels, just like Natalie Brunell, is good for Bitcoin awareness. And we want people to know, right? Not just because of number go up but because it fights a corrupt system both domestically and abroad (from the Fed/Treasury/JP Morgans of the world to the IMF and authoritarian governments). I disagree with him "owning" a bunch of bitcoin influencers. Have several teamed up with him over the years, yes. But these people already had successful careers/podcasts/etc without Cory. If anything, they pooled resources to develop better strategy for educating the masses. And Swan is VERY education focus and LEADS with the strong encouragement for self-custody...and willing to educate you on that. They will also educate you on how to setup a bitcoin full node. That doesn't sound like someone looking to rug-pull. And yes, we all wish he would have led with being more turn-key and liimiting 3rd party risk. But in an accelerating innovation market, there has to be some delegation to people who SUPPOSEDLY do things "best in class"...like custodians. I value your opinion and positions, @ODELL, but I also trust the opinions of Stephan Livera, James Lavish, Jeff Booth, Greg Foss, Sam Callahan, Alex Gladstein, Mark Moss, etc. People who may or may not be sponsored by Swan...but didn't need him beforehand and would still do fine enough that they can have independent opinions. Yet they've teamed or supported Swan. That has to mean something.

man, i appreciate the position you are in, but cory's behavior insofar as he calls out scammers *could* be an instance of psychological projection. deflection from his company's own sketchiness. with respect to your concern about "best in class" custody, there are other providers with (better IMO) solutions. eg River, Strike, and Cashapp -- all of which maintain their own custody. I love Livera too, think he puts out super high quality education, but at the end of the day, where is his bread buttered? what are the incentives of the other folks you listed? again, no disrespect from my end, just be careful

Someone asked me if they could allocate part of their IRA into bitcoin so I researched Swann's IRA. I did not recomend the product because they don't allow a self-custodial option. This is a red flag, not because I think they intentionally want to rug pull people, but because it is not aligned with the ethos they project. It's also a massive honeypot.

They can't allow self-custody for IRA's. A court case happened some years ago when a woman had gold in her IRA account & she took self-custody of it and the government took her to court and she lost. This is why bitcoin in IRA's have to be held by the companies issuing them & not the individual.

The IRS rules state that they need to be held by a custodian or they lose IRA status. Choice might say you can self-host if you want but if you get caught it's tough. I dunno. "Custodians. All self-directed IRA use custodians to hold your assets, and ensure your account adheres to IRS rules. Banks and other financial institutions are custodians for conventional IRAs, while there are specialized crypto custodians for Bitcoin IRAs." https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/cryptocurrency/bitcoin-ira/

Well if you are going to have an IRA you may as well have one that's going to give you the best return possible & nothing beats bitcoin. You can always stack stats in your own cold storage and have a Roth IRA to give you tax free retirement money too. When you retire you can withdraw the bitcoin, you just can't self-host while you are contributing.

You also have to consider hostile govt or institution risk. You are absolutely exposed if you trust a custodian but not at all if you hold 2/3 keys. Everything is trade offs. But playing dumb fiat games will win you dumb fiat prizes. Testicular fortitude to hold your ground when faced with a formidable foe is present much in today's society. Everyone loves to ask permission "for their own safety". Play the game but don't be lulled into "safety" by following every fiat rule out there. This is a technical revolution and we have the better tech. Act accordingly.

Yeah I'm not advocating bitcoin IRA's just answering a question. Besides, not everyone wants to self-custody and that's just a fact that a lot of bitcoiners don't want to face up to. Some people are not going to take on that kind of responsibility, they'd rather stay with the convenience of fiat & banks and bitcoin ETF's. Convenience is so much easier, it's why most people don't take privacy & security seriously on the internet because that involves effort & responsibility no matter how many times they are told the importance of it.

Lol! Mr Smarty Pants. Point is that bitcoin, gold etc in retirementt accounts have to be held by custodians while you are contributing according to IRS regulations. I dare say you can withdraw if you are able to & self-custody but be prepared for penalties if the IRS discovers it, & with the new regulations for LLC's having to report to FINCEN (self-directed IRA's require LLC's) every year that is more likely to happen.