Oddbean new post about login | logout This is the sort of intense, high-signal, honest, irreverent, informative thread that humans are naturally drawn to, but no Nostr algo has been built, that can find it. Humans do not naturally interact in a manner that causes threads to trend. Boosting out of an emotive conversation, for instance, is highly unnatural. In fact, the deeper and more meaningful the conversation, the less-likely they are to boost (or like) it. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzplfq3m5v3u5r0q9f255fdeyz8nyac6lagssx8zy4wugxjs8ajf7pqqszalcsgl78jg8w8nwyup5y952yj5wurz749t88ype9ucjf4qexxgqxzjk3q
The reason why algos can't see that conversation, is because the OP doesn't contain the signal, the thread does. In fact, social media algos _actively discourage_ human interaction. That's why influencers quickly learn to game the system by refusing to respond. If they respond to someone, and that person responds to them, the discussion thereafter is "invisible" to the algos. All of the responses have to "hang" on the OP. @utxo the webmaster 🧑💻 @captain @liminal
Algostore fixes this #notedeck
Algos can only surface high signal. You can't publish **in** them. You can only try to implicitly hack your way into them. This is what interoperable communities fix.
Both are upgrades over the influensooor loop! Customer set algos 🤝 communities https://media.tenor.com/y97O7tuNTmoAAAAC/arnold-schwarzenegger.gif
Exactly :110percent: Significant Win-Win between community admins & custom algos.
I'll provide a parameter to weight mentions in a kind 1 higher than reposts and reactions. I don't even account for zaps at all
Zaps are mostly an artifact of follower-count, like reactions and reposts. Quotes and replies are the only high-signal responses, as far as I can tell. And only if the responses carry information and aren't from real or artificial reply guys. Well, and air-replies (probably the most high-signal, as it hints at some controversy or disagreement), but you'd need AI to find those, probably.
if quotes just count toward the ranking of the note that they are quoting, it won't draw any attention to the quote itself. it does seem like quotes can be a higher signal than other mentions (likes, replies). how would you suggest handling quotes in the nostr algorithm?
I'd focus on the note they were quoting.
it's been a while since I've looked at the NIPs, but I believe all replies mention the root, so that activity will all acrue to the ranking of the root post and it will bubble up
Only if you calculate based upon the root. Most clients don't display root counts. There's also no differentiation, based upon depth or entropy. A thread like GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM -- GM will usually be ranked higher than one like Longish, interesting text containing information -- Response with question -- -- Answer to question -- -- Another question -- -- -- Answer, from someone else -- Useful feedback to the OP -- Interesting tidbit -- -- New conversation participant, totally excited about tidbit -- -- Person new participant tagged, to come look at tidbit I mean, maybe it _should_ be ranked higher. Maybe we're all just here to say GM to Jack. But I'm saying that I don't know if algo developers are considering this effect. There's a reason why trending feeds are so mind-numbingly dull, and this is the reason.
Just checked Primal. 7 of the posts on the 24-hour list are GM posts containing no additional information. Most of the rest are memes, shitposts, or people complaining that the trending list is nothing but GMs, memes, and shitposts. 😅 These are things that get a lot of interaction, and they're often fun for the participants, but if that's the best we have to offer new arrivals, then we're done here.
I had to dig to find this. Part of me wishes I didn’t have to — but the another part of me is happy that I did. I get to discover and curate following my curiosity. I also use Damus over Primal most of the time.
Damus is a whole class above Primal, but you didn't hear that from me. I'm on Android, with the other poors.
Nah the real poors are on web browsers XD
Nostrudel, FTW. 😅
The fact that I use noStrudel **on my phone** tells you all you need to know 😅
I do, too, actually. 😅 It's by far the most performant and I use all sorts of obscure functions, like Event Console and NAK, and stuff.
It works for sending notes, and threads, that's about it. My notifications are broken, it reloads fairly often, when clicking on images it also reloads the page. Auth is still pretty hit and miss. Primal is only useful for feeds sometimes. Nostter has good notifications, but threads stink compared. Also the tools and relay settings is Nostrudel all the way, but I just have to clear cache and reload once a day.
Exactly :110percent: Significant Win-Win between community admins & custom algos.
It works for sending notes, and threads, that's about it. My notifications are broken, it reloads fairly often, when clicking on images it also reloads the page. Auth is still pretty hit and miss. Primal is only useful for feeds sometimes. Nostter has good notifications, but threads stink compared. Also the tools and relay settings is Nostrudel all the way, but I just have to clear cache and reload once a day.
