Oddbean new post about login | logout How would you feel if Amethyst automatically created a Relationship Status event for every person you interact with (every like, zap, reply) and add them to a "Interacted with" user list. Then you can filter your feed using that list as authors OR filter your notifications by them, getting rid of all types of spam.
More info: https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/761
Do you need to make a note of that, can’t you calculate interactivity dynamically?
I think the note will help over time. There wouldnt be a need to download the key's entire history to calculate. Clients can just download all statuses. I would work great with local relays :)
Its a good model. You can remove the filter for content discovery and add for regurar use. how would we deal with accounts we previously interacted but no longer have any interest in it?
You can always remove users from the list or add new ones yourself. Amethyst would just start the work for you.
I'm a fan of NIP-81 in general.
It’s easy to get rid of spam. You just need to filter out all new users. The hard part is filtering out spam AND giving visibility to new users. WoT solutions must be paired with visibility solutions for new users. If you don’t, you’ll fix spam but kill the system at the same time.
Sure, we can split users between known and new like how we do with DMs.
And hide the new users? If all you do is separate them, then nobody will see them because there will be too much spam in the new user area. Imagine that there are 1000 spam messages for every real new user. Why would anyone go in there? I’m just pointing out without a visibility solution for new users, they are as good as gone. If we suppress new users, we kill the network.
I'm not apposed to it. You are the expert. If you think that approach would work, then go for it!
I would feel very good about that, especially if it was opt-in. nostr:nprofile1qqsw2feday2t6vqh2hzrnwywd9v6g0yayejgx8cf83g7n3ue594pqtcpz4mhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejqzythwden5te0dehhxarjxgcjucm0d5q32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwd4hhxarj9ec82csvvl4vs might like it, too! You guys should talk about how to adapt what you're describing here to work properly with his trust/grapevine ideas
@ManiMe and @cloud fodder we’ll have to think about feeding kind 30382 and 31382 notes into the GrapeRank algo.
I mean data is already public, important part will be transparency regarding the algorithm, with some customization options if possible, as well as the ability to turn it off. I don't see the problem. By the way, are you creating some centralized database? You will be using only Nostr public data, right?
Yep, it's basically just a summary of public data, but encrypted so that only the user can see the list.
Wouldn't this be bad for privacy? 🤔
Where is this information retained? Who has access to it?
Encrypted, on your private storage relays.
Who has private storage relays?
All amethyst users have that option. It can be their local Citrine instance.
That requires way too much work for a newb or even a filthy casual like me to do to get that functionality. IMO.
If setting up a relay is too much work, Nostr will never work. We might as well just keep using a centralized Twitter, because nostr won't be much different. We have to figure out a way anyone can do.
I very much agree with your first statement. But... Just using nostr as a Twitter clone shouldn't need a server to run a relay. (And I don't think relays should be on phones, generally, since it has a pretty bad effect on battery and network performance in my understanding.)
A free & easy experience should be subpar to some degree, and everything else should be enticing enough to either learn it, pay for it, or both. The old paradigm needs to be replaced. The local relay hasn't been a bad ux from my experience. I had a few quirks at first, nothing unexpected though. It's only gping to improve from here too.
I don't think it should be sub-par. Limited, maybe, but not confusing, convoluted, and poorly documented.
At the rate of innovation, those things are inevitable until something resembling "what works" can emerge. I'm kind of glad there's a shortage of documentation at the moment, because most of what does exist is already outdated. Old information is worse than a lack of information sometimes😅
You don't have to have it on your phone. You _can_ have it on your phone. You could also just put the data someplace semiprivate, like our project team relay, or run a relay on your PC. Nostr without relays really is just another Twitter.
Well, I think I get that idea now, but, it's a big ask for normies, I think.
We're still early days. It'll all be quite seamless. Even the phone relay setup could just be a button you press in your client, or it could auto-setup, when you install a client. That's probably where Damus and Amethyst will be or are. Users actually can't differentiate a client from a server, if you make the interface very smooth.
Most people have multiple servers running on every device and don't even notice.
Won't having as many relays as users cause a problem that people need to be subscribed to an almost infinite number of relays?
Only the relays your follows use.
Damus comes with a relay built in, this is all the benefits of citrine with no work. Maybe vitor will integrate it one day 😁
Maybe, but I would prefer to keep things separate to avoid duplicating the database in every app people use.
Isn’t amethyst the everything app
Yep, but def not the only app. :)
That doesn't work for me, since I don't have an iPhone.
Sounds like public logging on a massive scale. I don't think theres a need for this I believe it's more important to fix the bugs like the media player still looping a video or audio while it's out of view, battery optimizations like we've discussed before, functionality for dating on nostr, encryption on chatrooms & dms so relays don't know what we saying, Blocked users disappearing from the search results. Seriously I hate going past 100 profiles I muted before I start seeing post in my search results. It would be nice if Incould see my mute/block list within the app. I would like to know if there is a limit because I keep seeing the same npubs I blocked I doubt everyone I block makes multi npubs a day. Also when blocking a person from search when their post are hidden each post creates a gray line which when a lot of notes get hidden turn into a permanent gray bar on that search till you leave the search page. Community creation function can be added so we don't have to use another site like satellite earth. A notification log for when relays perform actions on you such as remove your notes the relay must give a reason & cannot be left blank. Lets make nostr better
Horrible dude, stop building walls up. You're literally saying a new user is treated like a leper that needs approval to be seen. Here's how you deal with spam: https://simplifiedprivacy.com/posts/nostr/spam-scams/spam-scams-article/index.html
So, you are proposing that the original poster can censor all replies he/she doesn't like. That's def not good.
You know I have 0 followers on Lens. Why? With Lens, I tried posting for weeks, but they hide my comments in the "show more" spam sections. So I gave up. Under the system you're proposing you'd be crushing new user's ability to reach anyone, and creating an echo chamber where the largest accounts are the most seen. I'm suggesting the OP can label it spam, and anyone can clearly toggle that off to see the criticism. Which would then make it even more clear that the original poster is trying to hide it.
Which is already implemented today: the author can report the spam and it will hide, but only if you follow the author. It's the same mechanism. However, authors are not repointing spam anymore. There is too much of it. They can't keep up.
Alright thanks for your insight. What are your thoughts on proof of work? (sorry if you already answered this), but especially the more people post
Honest question: What happens when a client other than Amethyst in good faith implements NIP-81 but doesn't realize Amethyst has borked reporting by publishing a kind 7 in addition to 1984? The other client interprets the reporting event as an interaction and adds to the "interacted with" list.
We will add as well. "Interacted with" doesn't mean positive interaction. You can react with a 🤮😡 and it will still be marked as "interacted with". Then once the client tries to display, the block list, hidden words, anti-soam filters or reports will filter the list further. The "interacted with" is just to separate known accounts from new.
I like for something like this to be configurable. Like with wot I could mark it to 0 so if anyone with Relationship Status with me blocks the user, I don't see them. Or maybe I set to -1/3 to see more when I feel like it. These bot attacks seem to be ever changing and many attacks aren't perminent. Right now I'd probably set it to 1 but maybe when it calms down i'd set it to -1.
Wouldn't it be simpler for a client to just analyze the data they already have and add a button? I interact with thousands of people. The event would be gigantic.
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Yes
good idea. I would like to see such a feature
Great idea! If not mentioned already, I'd love to be able to see how many sats total I've zapped to fellow Nostr users similar to how many sats I've been zapped for my contributions
Interesting idea. I frequently click on a profile and scroll through just to see if it's someone I want to follow. I'm not sure whether that would count as an interaction, I would only really want them added if I followed the profile. What I really want to see someone do is network mapping, where we can see who we interact with the most and see circles forming over time.
If it's going to be private then good catch!
