Oddbean new post about login | logout Supposedly they marketed to criminals/launderers, and promoted as such in their fundraising pitches. If that's true then they're fudging the truth of the situation. Also, They were running a MTB for the people using their servers and not running their own Dojo. Which detractors such as myself considered to be it's fatal flaw. Any rebuttal is welcome, cheers.
Who's fudging the truth? Until now there's been absolutely zero regs to suggest that running a node and allowing people to connect to it constitutes a MTB. That's how every single mobile wallet works.
Fudging: If they promoted it to criminals & claimed so in their fundraising pitches, they might fall under this umbrella. https://image.nostr.build/6775edc581c9447249f8e2d17bc7016e6a2aa31b1981f292410a09de503931e3.jpg
I see what you're saying about the node, but if the node is being used by criminals & provedly so - then what do you expect a government to do? If you're just running a node to allow for transactions to be published to the block chain that's a little different no?
Imagine they showed up in court: Ser we don't run any mixing transactions through any of our servers. Every user runs his own server, the rest is all decentralized cooperation. We can't stop bad people from doing bad things with tools, that's your job Mr government. ...Instead we have this pile of dog shit.
Have a read through the details of the Tornado cash situation. What you describe is basically that, yet they still went gunning for the creator.
Were users of Tornado Cash running their own nodes / servers? I’m honestly not sure, but seems unlikely
nostr:nevent1qqs89w979jk9hgjy48aupyg88wcy0zpl3lf0pydmanevrm22l04ax6qpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ex2mrp0yh8jet8dpex7tnnd96x2gqzyr3zvzn67vanhgcqwsg3c3t8j080trf2ks79jedahdj4ly8ewwv6cqcyqqqqqqg5haqv0
Thanks. I’m still not clear - were the Tornado Cash devs operating a central server? Or was every Etherium node performing that function?
This is the thing that I don't understand about ethereum & smart contracts. The contracts are supposed to be immutable, but there are operations that clearly aren't if tornado cash isn't operational.
Yeah that seems… broken. My rudimentary understanding was that “smart contracts” were executed by each node. But the whole system is so convoluted it’s hard to determine where the real dependencies are. If you’re saying the Tornado Cash “smart contract” stopped executing after the devs were arrested, that’s a pretty good indicator that there was some centralized server dependency. It’s sad and unjust, but not unexpected.
I looked around and someone forked the code and is updating it. Perhaps they are using it on tor? https://git.tornado.ws/tornadocontrib/tornado-cli
But it says this "List of rpc & relayers for withdrawal Refer https://chainlist.org for a full list of available public RPC URLs. Note that most of the RPC would censor sanctionded pool contracts. So either you can use the default RPC or find yourself a suitable one."
Yes, it doesn't mean the court ruling will be upheld last forever. But it's painfully obvious you need to be anonymous if you're creating these tools. These people wanted to get rich. Why else would they be public and take VC money?
& this is a good question ⁉️ nostr:nevent1qqsffqh2uqkzr77lk2z2t9cp0v3rtmsuafp9225e3rl2zl4elrfmtaqpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzpz9zcw6zpd9qyacx4xrqp50aw39vdn739cspkaqcn0j77jet82j9qvzqqqqqqyv0vyjm
I think that’s the main technical point you could argue in court, like you said above. If you’re running central servers to facilitate the “mixing” etc, plus taking a fee, I don’t see how you’re gonna win on a technical argument.
Another item in question was he sanctioned as an illegal MTB? I don't think so right? Only as conspiring to launder money?
ML and sanction violations I believe.
So there's nuance here, fucking hate the Samourai folk. They fucked us hard.
You won't be surprised to hear that I think that's a retarded comment.
Sorry, I was incorrect. However, Just like Samourai, they *do* make money off of the conjoins.
I believe one of the indictments in the Tornado Cash case did have to do with MTB. The defense recently filed a motion to dismiss based on the fact that tornado cash had no “control” of user funds and the US DOJ’s response was that “control” is not required to be a MTB
Makes sense, users don't run their own nodes in ethereum. I wonder how that shit worked if not with a centralized node like Samourai operated.
Sounds pretty centralized. https://image.nostr.build/5ce067cecfc6a23193c8476a935a5de49a01e724a2abe82d0d84894f5e975554.jpg
https://image.nostr.build/936ac965aca0b6d1eaabe2f210c37a2620e0e6b820a6ef7a7c327ddea15dff7a.jpg
The common denominator is that someone was profiting off the mixing and therefore had culpability
Two common denominators: Running a server/node which users could use on their behalf + profiting.
They also claim that MTs have a responsibility to put in place AML curtails - which obv weren't there & the RZN wasabi did it preemptively, bc it's the law unfortunately. You just can't be labeled as an MT. So yeah profiting is already a shot in the head.
What if they just don't market to criminals & go out of their way to comply with authorities? Is there no difference? Ofc id rather no one got arrested, but this just reeks of weakness.
Sorry, I was incorrect. However, Just like Samourai, they *do* make money off of the conjoins.
Sorry, I was incorrect. However, Just like Samourai, they *do* make money off of the conjoins.
