Oddbean new post about login | logout I respect your right to run your business your way. As DYI user I say thank you but no, thank you. š«”
This is totally optional, just if you want lifetime access to on-demand support from technical experts in a safe place with no scammers. Some people see huge value in that.
You just rised the entry level for scammer to $100 by that.
They will never pay it, because rhe first time they try to scam, they will be removed from the server forever and have to pay another $100 to get back in. To defeat spam and scammers, you must BOTH control the server AND charge for access. Problem solved.
šÆ We've come to the same conclusion. Software can be freely shared, without much loss to the originator, as they are simply documents (that's why they're free speech). But services (including relays) that are "free and public" are prone to being * short-lived (due to running costs and longer-term effort), * of low quality or with a small userbase (size matters, to this discussion, because it effects the amount of cost or effort involved), * heavily subsidized (so, controlled by third parties, rather than the users), * or overrun by scammers and spammers. nostr:nevent1qqs0e49ym96uu9nf0v9hllcteep0l0jytajyhrgaezdsnew6qldyzpspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgqg5waehxw309aex2mrp0yhxgctdw4eju6t0qgs9df4h2deu3aae83fmet5xmrlm4w5l9gdnsy3q2n7dklem7ezmwfc79qypk
This was one of the first things I wrote about when I joined nostr. naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzqat9vaqzpxtqca87xulxjslc5gdt395gnkrfzfm2vrux4tdu37f2qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uqq6vfk8qunwwfc8yerzdp5xy3swc0enaddr1qvzqqqr4gupzqat9vaqzpxtqca87xulxjslc5gdt395gnkrfzfm2vrux4tdu37f2qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uqq6vfk8qunwwfc8yerzdp5xy3swc0e Relays are a failure point in nostr because they are effectively global and only really work as intended in a delivery by default manner. I.E. since they must accept all inputs they will succumb to spam.
I will politely disagree. You don't need to charge for access if you control access. I have been part of many comminuties online over ~30 years that didn't charge but had very little spam out scammers because access and culture was such that it was very self-regulating. But, I'm not saying you shouldn't charge. You are providing direct, quick access in an unprecedented manner that prioritizes those who have laid out significant fiat for your hardware. Having thought about that more over the last day, I've come to see why it us ultimately a good thing to do what you are doing for the sustainability of Start9.
It's different in Bitcoin. Scammers are everywhere and very agressive. If you don't charge for access, why wouldn't they just join over and over again using different emails and aliases? There is literally no cost or risk to scamming. You can disagree all you want, but you are 100% wrong.
You can move to an active approval model. I don't know how many people try to use your support. Approving would be a hassle if it's a high volume, so, I get that having a paywall as an effective filter is appealing, especially since you're trying to grow. Honestly, I get it. I was just very surprised by $100, especially since I just got startOS running this week. š
its great that you can monetize a fantastic service and deal with scammers at the same time. $100 is a fair price for first world nations but it may cause DIY users in poorer countries from getting quality support that keep them running their node when facing a tech issue. Its a difficult line to draw and you had to draw it somewhere.
nostr:nprofile1qqs9df4h2deu3aae83fmet5xmrlm4w5l9gdnsy3q2n7dklem7ezmwfc6c32nl I might misunderstood the communicate. Iām DIY user and I am not seeking premium support. All I need is access to community forum as it was on Telegram. I agree with Telegram flaws but do I understand it correctly that this new Matrix chat will be the only #start9 forum and Telegram chat completely gone? In other words will payed option replace free option fully? Are DYI users left alone?
Telegram channel will remain, just not staffed by the Start9 team, and it will continue to have scammers I'm sure. Our free documentation will always be awesome and up to date. Our community forum will also remain free at community.start9.com. This server is for on-demand, 1-1 help from Start9 team members in a spam/scam free space. It's not about the money, it's about fighting scammers, which can ONLY be done if you control the server and charge for access. There is no other way
This is the ONLY way to prevent spam and scammers. https://njump.me/nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzq44xkafh8j8hhy79809wsmv0lw46nu4pkwqjyp20ekml80mytde8qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7q2ywaen5te0xekx26rg09j8xun5dpskwmtfwvm82afkw36kxmnywea8wdmrw438quttdpm8s7texa4x76t0vv6r2mttwdergetpvshx7mnfdahz7qpqeanmjyv6wufn20zmcl763u6sqax5ak540lnrh9euttln0zfsgdnqv7g0q9
Not only way thr easiest for you. Many other companies seem to do fine with email support and help tickets....
We greatly prefer the group approach, much more scalable and also creates community.
Just a question on this why is your help desk also need to be the way you build your community too? Wouldn't it make more sense to separate them so can foster a community with both DIY and hardware owners? Then just leave the paid employees for hardware support?
So anyone can join this server, not just hardware buyers. For anyone who doesn't see the value or can't justfiy the expense, we have commnuity.start9.com, which will always be free, and I'm sure other community run channels will pop up as well. But we need the paid server to keep out the scammers. Also, people deserve to get paid for their time and effort. The people who staff our channel have families to feed like everyone else, they don't work for free, and shouldn't. $100 for a lifetime membership to expert technical support is the deal of the decade.
Okay I feel i agree now with your decision as long as the forum stays open for use I'm happy as they are amazing. I am not against you paying your team well but I have to as a customer voice my concerns. I know you are a hardware company first that developed amazing ecosystem that can also be used elsewhere for free. I just hope you can see both sides of why some people are concerned vs others will support you without question. Thanks agian for being an amazing company!
This is the ONLY way to prevent spam and scammers. https://njump.me/nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzq44xkafh8j8hhy79809wsmv0lw46nu4pkwqjyp20ekml80mytde8qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7q2ywaen5te0xekx26rg09j8xun5dpskwmtfwvm82afkw36kxmnywea8wdmrw438quttdpm8s7texa4x76t0vv6r2mttwdergetpvshx7mnfdahz7qpqeanmjyv6wufn20zmcl763u6sqax5ak540lnrh9euttln0zfsgdnqv7g0q9
Not only way thr easiest for you. Many other companies seem to do fine with email support and help tickets....
We greatly prefer the group approach, much more scalable and also creates community.
Just a question on this why is your help desk also need to be the way you build your community too? Wouldn't it make more sense to separate them so can foster a community with both DIY and hardware owners? Then just leave the paid employees for hardware support?
So anyone can join this server, not just hardware buyers. For anyone who doesn't see the value or can't justfiy the expense, we have commnuity.start9.com, which will always be free, and I'm sure other community run channels will pop up as well. But we need the paid server to keep out the scammers. Also, people deserve to get paid for their time and effort. The people who staff our channel have families to feed like everyone else, they don't work for free, and shouldn't. $100 for a lifetime membership to expert technical support is the deal of the decade.
Okay I feel i agree now with your decision as long as the forum stays open for use I'm happy as they are amazing. I am not against you paying your team well but I have to as a customer voice my concerns. I know you are a hardware company first that developed amazing ecosystem that can also be used elsewhere for free. I just hope you can see both sides of why some people are concerned vs others will support you without question. Thanks agian for being an amazing company!
We greatly prefer the group approach, much more scalable and also creates community.
Just a question on this why is your help desk also need to be the way you build your community too? Wouldn't it make more sense to separate them so can foster a community with both DIY and hardware owners? Then just leave the paid employees for hardware support?
So anyone can join this server, not just hardware buyers. For anyone who doesn't see the value or can't justfiy the expense, we have commnuity.start9.com, which will always be free, and I'm sure other community run channels will pop up as well. But we need the paid server to keep out the scammers. Also, people deserve to get paid for their time and effort. The people who staff our channel have families to feed like everyone else, they don't work for free, and shouldn't. $100 for a lifetime membership to expert technical support is the deal of the decade.
Okay I feel i agree now with your decision as long as the forum stays open for use I'm happy as they are amazing. I am not against you paying your team well but I have to as a customer voice my concerns. I know you are a hardware company first that developed amazing ecosystem that can also be used elsewhere for free. I just hope you can see both sides of why some people are concerned vs others will support you without question. Thanks agian for being an amazing company!
Okay I feel i agree now with your decision as long as the forum stays open for use I'm happy as they are amazing. I am not against you paying your team well but I have to as a customer voice my concerns. I know you are a hardware company first that developed amazing ecosystem that can also be used elsewhere for free. I just hope you can see both sides of why some people are concerned vs others will support you without question. Thanks agian for being an amazing company!