Oddbean

Putin said to Tucker that Russia started in 862. But he did not say that at that time, Moskow area was a swampy forest with no civilization at all. But Kyiv already existed, and the Rurikid dynasty started ruling there in 882 (before them, Kyiv was ruled by Askold and Dyr since 860). By 1100, Kyiv became 4th largest city in Europe (much bigger than Paris or London those days), and Moskow was not yet founded (its founding date is 1147). The founder of Moskow is buried in Kyiv, you can come to his grave whenever you want. And that state was called Rus or Ruthenia. The emperor of Bysanthium called it “Rossia” in 10th century, so it was just the Greek spelling of “Rus”. In 13th century, the Pope was calling Danylo “King of Rus” while Alexander Nevsky was called “Duke of Suzdal”. Even in 17th century, Ukrainian Hetman Bohdan Khmelnitskyi was calling himself “the Hetman of Rus”. So Moskow was a colony of Rus and was never called “Rus” officially before 18th century. Old kings of Rus oficially called it "Zalissia" ("The land behind the forest"). They started the first state only in 1157, and were calling themselves Suzdalese (after the city of Suzdal). Their first newspaper was called “The News of Moskovian state”. There is a coin of Peter first with “Moskovian rouble” engraved on it. Ivan Fedorov, the first book printer of Moskovia escaped to Ukraine just 2 years after printing his book, and he was identifying himself as Moskovian. But in 1721, after taking control of the lands of the ancient Rus, Moskovia renamed themselves to Russia officially (and took the 2-headed eagle of Bysanthium too). And then they made a strange story that Rus “migrated” to Moskow escaping from the Golden Horde. Which is weird, because they should have escaped in the opposite direction. And there are no records about any mass migrations. Also, Kyiv was paying tribute to the Horde for 80 years only, while Moskow was there for 240 years, and their elites mixed as result (e.g. Ivan the Terrible was Rurikid by father and Genghizid by mother). Buttom line: As political unit, Ukraine started in 9th century as Kingdom of Rus. Moskovia as a political unit started in 1157 as the Principality of Vladimir-Suzdal. Saying that Russia started in Kyiv is like saying that Argentina started as the Kingdom of Castile in the 9th century or that the USA started as the Kingdom of Wessex in 6th century. There is a connection, but a VERY remote one.