Jews must be respected like any other.
Considering the Balfour Declaration (English Government) from 1917, the return of the Jews on their ancestral land was discussed probably long before, by Jews and non Jews, probably from the beginning of the last exile around 2000 years ago, why showing "Chicago" ? Like the Talmud, Jews are discussing together all over the world about religion, and the return of the Jewish people was a prophecy of the end times, there is nothing about a conspiracy here, just a religious thing, it's precised "Rabbi" btw, we need to remember Jews has ever been important in the human history, it's a very particular observation but in every domain Jews played a significant role, science, politic, medicine, finance, art, philosophy etc, the Zionist ideology is the return of the Jewish on their ancestral land, Israel. It's a far different thing to "colonize" a land and start a war, annihilating the local population like European did in America and Australia for example, then implement themselves, yeah Jews never did that, they never started hostility against Arabs, but if they are under attack, isn't legitimate to neutralize the threat ? That doesn't mean Jews can kill innocent people in Gaza of course, but what I saw is a very special situation, even Nazi didn't do what Hamas did during so many years. Hamas took the Arabs in Gaza (called Palestinians) in hostage, starving, torturing and killing them, launched rockets from houses, hospitals and even mosques, then forcing women and child to stay on the launch site, hopping the IDF will hit innocent people in the counter attack, yes Hamas is doing his possible to make Palestinians killed during the battle, Hamas use Palestinians as a shield, the first victim of Hamas is Palestinians, blaming Israel for the situation is a big mess, it's sad, please study what Hamas did in Gaza, it's a nightmare. But of course Israel isn't perfect, like any other, the point is don't be wrong on the situation, Hamas (and by extension Iran) is the wrong guy of the story, how many billions Hamas received ? If Hamas used all these billions to help Palestinian, Gaza will be far more beautiful then Dubai, but instead they bought guns, build rockets and tunnels, all of this because they want to destroy Israel without any real reason, because they are Jews and they hate Jews because... they are Jews... ok deal with someone who want to kill you because you are you, peace is impossible, calling to ceasefire is useless, it can't happen and that's sad but that's the situation, as many time Hamas will be here, rockets will be send from Gaza and Israel will go into Gaza to stop the threat, we should want the end of Hamas, it's a curse for Palestinians and Israel
Wikipedia : The Rothschild's family -
Jacob Rothschild: " My family created Israel."
" The family's documented history starts in 16th century Frankfurt; its name is derived from the family house, Rothschild, built by Isaak Elchanan Bacharach in Frankfurt, Germany in 1567. "
https://video.nostr.build/484727a9f389aaa66eabca03886a8e1208c9903ff9ee77dc233b7a030da3ab3d.mp4
Of course Rothschild didn't created Israel ^^
Israel existed from many centuries before, but your quote need more precision, Rothschild said in fact they have financially supported the Israeli return to the Land, in 1948 where UN accorded to Jews the property of a part of the Land, Israel was a desert, there was pretty nothing and no one, Rothschild supported financially the building of infrastructures, it's in that way they declared "My family created Israel", but, why do you show us a video of the Rothschild ? What was your point ?
Palestine was not a desert in 1948, that is easily rebutted fake news.
Early Zionist settlers learned a lot about agriculture from their trusting Palestinian neighbours, there are endless personal accounts written.
Palestine was a Mandate of the British Empire, with its own elected parliament, coinage and laws.
Guys, you need to read between the lines ^^
It was a desert (compared to developed countries), the return of the Jews have already started from decades before, and in Israel (Palestine was a name given by Roman Empire to humiliate the Jews because in the history before, there was the Philistines in Aza (Gaza) people who attacked Jews every times...) there was already commerce between Arabs and Jews, there was peace btw, but in many place of Israel, it was a desert really, buildings where primitive, it was a very simple civilization, nothing compared to how it was in Europe for example, in that sense it was a desert 😉
According to the Mishna, it was the Falasteen (Philistines) who welcomed and cared for the Jews after 40 years in the desert.
Yes, there were later wars and land grabs by Judah against the Falesteen. (The more things change...) The Sages excused this perfidity by asserting (without textual or other evidence) that there were two peoples called Falasteen.
Palestina or Syria Palestina was a name the Romans gave the whole region when they made it a Provincia.
Because the Falesteen (Palestinae in Latin) had been the most loyal to Rome. More loyal than Judah, Ysrael, Samaria, the Canaanite city-states or the Phonecian city-states, all of whom became parts of Roman Palestina.
"The Sages excused this perfidity"
Thanks, I understand you intention from now
I live to teach!
[ takes a bow ]
your intention is not honest, Israeli Sages are religious at the higher level, there is absolutely no excuse for any perfidy in the Judaism, stealing is one of the worse thing you can do
I happen to agree. And yet...
There's countless evidence to refute things you're saying. We're presenting your thoughts against distinct evidence or statements. It's up to others to decide what's correct.
In context:
The country of Israel has never existed before 1948, arouns 30 years after the Rothschild's convinced the UK to carve it out of Palestine. Israel before this is a tribe not a official land. It wasn't a place of only Jews since there are numerous different types of Jews and ethnicities. The current Palestinians have more right to the land than the Rothschild's who are Germans with their history only traceable to 16th century Europe.
First and before all, Rothschild are not German, they are Jews, being Jewish is not only a religion like in Christianity or Islam, being Jewish is a religious and a national identity, with a Land, Israel, given by God. Jews can be born in Germany, speaking the German, wearing a German name, they will never be German, they are Jews, they are Israeli, Jewish is the religious part, Israeli is the national part, but it's linked.
Israel is a people, but they have a Land, given by God in the Bible, and it was given far before Jesus, it started with Abraham. Jews occupied the Land many times, they where exiled many times but they have ever returned to their Land. This is history, you can't deny the past, check the Arch of Titus for example, there is a Menorah, it's a Jewish religious symbol, there is ancient Roman Empire coinage which celebrate the destruction of the Jewish Temple, in Jerusalem, all of this is around 70 after JC, far before 1948... but there is absolutely no trace of any "Palestinian people" before something like 1960, the Palestinian people was a creation of multiple Arabs countries, including Egypt and Jordan. They where Arabs in Israel before, yes, but they never claimed to be the "Palestinian people", before when we talked about Palestinians, it was about Jews, it was an insult
That's hilarious. The Falesteen ("Palestinians", in Arabic, Aramaic and Hebrew alike) are mentioned in the Mishna.
What sort of Jew are you if you don't know that?
Yes, they learned Latin under the Romans (Procipius was one) and then Arabic under the Abbasids. I didn't say Philistines where not mentioned in the Mishna, I referenced to the King David especially, but it was in the Abraham period too. There is an ancient conflict with the Philistines which where located in Gaza
Indeed.
Modern Ashkelon was their capital, but modern Gaza was a part of their territory.
Ok that's cool, but it wasn't the topic, the purpose was the war in Gaza, and it's happening because Hamas go into Israel and killed around 1500 people which where dancing in a party, raped women and kidnapped children and old people. Israel is trying to bring them back to their home, so what do you have against this ?
If i can interupt this a great distraction of the original point. Somehow Israel can kill people in over 180 countries and aren't sanctioned.
Blackmail and greed, with a side of bandwagoning.
I do find it darkly humourous that Bibi blackmailed an IDF officer into changing records using a compromising video.
Once you get used to using this on your enemies, apparently its logical to use it on your friends...
What about CIA ? What about FSB ? What about any secret services of the world which are doing dirty things in the shadow ? Mossad is everywhere, like CIA, like FSB, like China, like North Korea, like Iran, like British, like French, like German etc etc. Is USA sanctioned when they destabilize and collapse an entire country ? When they start a war in Irak with fake "chemical weapons" evidence ? Which ended in 200 000 Iraqi civilian and 5 000 American soldiers dead, ISIS as emerged upon that shit causing even more horrible damage to the Iraq and Syria btw... Is Israel do wrong stuff, it should be published and sanctionned, BUT like any other country, and I never heard about Mossad causing the fall of an entire country ever.
https://image.nostr.build/3d926847801109d605769c9f4f1c2a45227e9dcec4fa73934189fd94364e2ee0.jpg
Ok ok I'm not talking with sane people, I understand what you are doing and there is no word for that
The word you're looking for to describe your situation is "defeat".
But you were handicapped by an unworthy cause. Come back with a better one and you'll do well.
Defeat ? No. Sad ? Yes, because what you are doing is trying to change the reality, you try to make the Jews the wrong guy of the situation, that make me sad because you are smart but you use your intelligence against reality, you definitely understand what the novelist is trying to said, but you change that in something like "these guy is justifying the murder of innocent children in Gaza" but of course you know he was more saying something like "why are you focusing on the innocent children unfortunately killed by Israel in Gaza ? You are making Israel evil but you don't said Hamas is doing is possible to make children killed by accident, you should talk more about Hamas is the cause of the catastrophe because Hamas is launching rockets from houses where there is a lot of civilians, yes it's sad to see innocent children dying but you should blame Hamas for that, not Israel"
So yeah, it's sad because you are not accusing the good one and the worst of this is you probably don't want
There is no "good one", and enforcing a "Warsaw Ghetto"-style starvation blockade combined with sniper and drone attacks on women and children is the best way to support Hamas' popularity.
This has, as is well known, been Netanyahu's strategy ever since he was a young activist in Meir Kahane's orbit, but the pretence of otherwise has been more or less dropped lately.
I believe Zionism is ultimately an attempt to recreate the conformity and insularity of the pre-1850s European shetl, rejecting the post 1850s reality of Jews having citizenship and the opportunity to socialise (and assimilate with) other Westerners.
Zionism, to maintain this, requires both constant war and constant begging of coreligionists.
My Western country is now flooded with draft-dodging young Israelis socialising across the religious boundary, and it makes me happy. Reverse-Aliyah is becoming fashionable.
Judaism said clearly Jews should not assimilate with others because dropping the Torah will have a negative consequences in their life, anyway, the Torah never ask to starve people or blocking people in a ghetto like, but again, Israel have no other choice, they need to stop Hamas in Gaza from enter in Israel because Hamas will attack with a bombed car and next time it will be knife attack then AK-47 and so and so... If you let the snake coming to you, he will attack you because it's all the thing he want to do... you know what I mean for sure. Stop saying we can let people in Gaza go freely in Israel, there was too much attack from Gaza (Hamas), enough is enough. Israel need to finish Hamas then Palestinian will be free, I can't blame Israel for protecting themselves, can you ?
Hamas didn't even exist before the 70s, and it survived its first decade only because of the support of the Israel security services protecting it against the PLO factions.
Israelis created this golem, at the cost of meticulous planning, great trouble and public expense, for self-serving political reasons. And now expect me to pay money to maintain the apartheid system and violence they have deliberately constructed.
No.
Financing Israel in its present form is not merely immoral, but antisemitic as well.
No one should Finance Israel expect Israeli, except if a proposal was submitted to the population which have accepted by a referendum, that's a true democracy. It seems to be the Israeli Government helped the Hamas, I have no evidence and the situation was surely different, but I'm sure it wasn't in the intention that Hamas will commit terrorism in Israel and in Gaza (because yes Hamas is clearly killing Palestinian people too). I really don't know what happened between Israeli Government and Hamas, if they helped Hamas, it was probably in the expectation of a better and safer situation, otherwise it will be very disturbing
The intention was to prevent a peace settlement, that would inevitably lead to assimilation, like every time before.
It worked.
Fostering terrorists wasn't the goal, just a means to the goal.
A goal that you yourself are sympathetic to, keeping Jewish people frightened, separate and in the shetl.
How many innocent lives is maintaining that really worth? How many innocent Jewish lives is that really worth? Zionism isn't free...
I'm not for restraining Jewish to assimilate, anyone do what they want to do, I just said according to the Torah, assimilation brings negative consequences, that's what Torah said, it's like a doctor saying to you what you should do and don't do for your own good, but you are totally free. What evidence do you have about the intention of Israeli Government with "helping" the Hamas ? I'm sympathetic to say the true and let the people do that they want within the respect of others, Judaism is not a prison, you are free, do your own way, learn by yourself if you want, no problem at all. Religion should bring freedom not enslavement. Zionism is the will for the Jews to have a land, their ancestral Land where they can be by themselves, defending against pogrom and Shoah because during all the exile Jews where persecuted, and some Jews (and non Jews) want that stop, so Jews will be able to defend themselves. No Zionism is not the will to kick out a bunch of Arabs from their home. Again, like everyone, Jewish are all different, Jews are not so different you know ^^
They have success and failure, it's not the devil in flesh and bones too, it's just humans with a crazy history like everyone else 😄
Here's the best intro on the background of Hamas - Israeli relations: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/israel/2019-03-29/israel-and-hamas-need-each-other
Wikipedia has an article too but they waffle too much, its "ground zero" for "edit wars".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas
Regarding what the Jewish community wants, 100% agree, but what the Jewish global community wants, what Israeli citizens want, what the Israeli govt wants, and what various cliques of oligarchs who don't even live in Israel want are not the same.
If they were, there would have been no need for Israel's security establishment to foster Hamas behind their people's backs.
Endless crimes against Palestinians, who 100 years ago were more friendly to Jews than any European country, is not in the global Jewish community's interests.
It's in Hamas' interests, its in the Israeli security state's interests, its in American weapons manufacturers interests, and its in the interest of certain Jewish oligarchs who prefer to see one Jew lying dead than ten Jews eating and drinking with a non-believer.
But its not in your interest. And dismantling the incentive structure they've built is going to be the work of decades.
Without credible threats from Palestinians, the need for fear and war can only be met by attacking other third countries, as we are seeing now. Read what Smolrich and Gvir have said publicly about Israel's borders.
Are you talking about Hezbollah ? Oh yeah there is no credible threat except they launched rockets and drones from a year now, sorry you probably means Iran ? No of course they didn't finance Hamas and Hezbollah, they have surely not attacked Israel themselves... between the Palestinian population there is, you know... the Hamas who simply want the destruction of Israel and committing so many attacks from decades, rockets, car bomb, knife attack, raping, kidnapping but oh sorry there is no "credible threats" wtf are you saying here ? Of course again, many Arabs in Gaza, Lebanon, Iran... just want to live in peace, but inside these populations, there are a bunch of retard who declared an eternal war against Jewish state, deal with it
You might want to look in a mirror.
Israel's govt and its sponsors, have been doing all of those things, but on a larger scale and for longer.
Thanks to your current govt's arrogance and habit of "saying the quiet part aloud", now everyone knows.
Probably at that time, Hamas wasn't doing evil things like terrorism, if Hamas became what it is today, we can't blame Israeli Government, it's like blaming Dumbledore to has been the professor of Tom Jedusor which became LATER Lord Voldemort
LOL
Dumbledore wasn't helping Voldemort with the intention of using him to steal other people's homes and businesses, to create an apartheid state, to drive the native owners into refugee camps, and then beseige them like the Warsaw Ghetto.
Dumbledore actually cared, and wasn't a hypocrite.
Also hate to break it to you but Harry Potter isn’t a real wizard.
Where do you go to imagine the Israeli Government want to steal homes in Gaza ? Are you serious ? Israel is at the higher level in many sectors, they earn a lot of money, and they are obsessed to steal Palestinian homes ^^ At least they are autistic so...
It's not serious, really, if Israel wanted to take Gaza, it will be done today and from a long time already. Israel cared on Gaza during decades, giving electricity, water, medicament, all for free. They facilitated the employment of Palestinian in Israel to help them, and yes of course Israeli hospital was free for Palestinians until Oct 7
LOL Smolrich and Gvir have both announced that is exactly what they will do - steal homes in Gaza. And build settlements.
Your Minister for Women declared she would leave the coalition if they did not.
"At least they are autistic" - dude that is sick and you should apologise.
Autism does not make people into Oskar Dirlewanger, only Zionism (and Nazism) can do that.
Apologize for what ? There is nothing wrong about autism, I have some and probably we are all autistic at some degree, like every time you transform the words in a wrong way, the purpose was to show the stupidity of your post, not against autism, well of course Israel don't want to robe some houses in Gaza, concerning the business, there is close to nothing in Gaza, Israeli have Tel Aviv which compete with Silicon Valley but yeah let's go robe a bakery (all my respect to bakery in Gaza)
Why did you said "Your Minister" ? I'm not Jew and not living in Israel
I will never defend Israel if Israel do shit, but I will ever defend someone which is falsely accused of something wrong
Israel is attacked from 20 years by Hamas in Gaza, meanwhile, all this time Israel gave free electricity, water, medicament and hospitals to Palestinians, because Israel ever wanted peace
But at some point it's unsustainable, after the Oct 7 Israel said enough is enough and go against Hamas, sorry for Palestinian but Hamas is coward using the civilian as a shield, you want to know ? Hamas is using babies as shield, yes, babies on one hand and the gun on the other hand, who is doing something like that on earth ?!
So unfortunately innocent women and child are killed by IDF even if Israel try to don't hit the innocent population, at some point you can't do otherwise and it's sad you have no choice, you need to defend yourself
Blame Hamas and those who funded their terrorist actions, not Israel which want to preserve innocent life, you are an idiot or very dishonest which I think you are, the Free Palestine movement is not for Palestinian, it's against Israel, I never heard them blaming Hamas for what they did and are doing again, Hamas is starving, torturing and killing the Palestinians
Why not blaming Egypt for not letting population enter in their country ? Egypt can protect Palestinian from danger, they have a lot of resources too
Why not blaming Qatar who directly funded Hamas when Hamas was killing innocent Palestinian and Israeli ?
This conversation is going absurd, comparing Zionism to Nazism is the higher level of stupidity and hate against Jews, Zionism is for the peaceful establishment of a territory for Jews, nothing about hunting and systematically killing a population because of it's religion or ethnicity.
Now we're approaching some common ground!
But I wasn't talking about Mossad, they are a small and subordinate part of much larger networks.
"This is not something we use Mega for"
- Danny Yatom
Yeah of course the worldwide octopus Jewish conspiracy leaded by Rothschild and Rockefeller 😂
They are everywhere ^^
I think the collusive elite clique is the typical unit of political and social power in the modern West, just as the clan is dominant in Somalia or Afghanistan.
Most cliques have at least some basis in mutual blackmail, though a shared ethnic identity is important to many. I would suggest no more than a plurality identify as Jewish.
Supposing there is an elite, and probably there is one, it's logic after all, of course there will be some Jews, like there will be some Arabs, Chinese, Russians, Brazilians etc etc
But I don't think there is Jewish lobby by itself, I know there is something different, the Freemasonry, and there are some others like 322... these groups are probably what we called the Elite, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are doing evil things, it's probably far more complex than that, resuming the Freemasonry want to control everything seems too much, probably some want control and some are in Freemasonry because there is a deep philosophic and mystical culture in it, an knowledge that can elevate and transcend the human mind which can at the end help the entire world who knows ?
I've read some very interesting papers on why collusive cliques based around concealing a shared crime or proclivity tend to out-compete others.
Game theory suggests these have much greater internal cohesion and trust in one another, due to the kompromat they implicitly hold over one another. Cliques without mutual blackmail have weaker ties.
There may well be something in it - it certainly correctly predicted the decline of "Lavender Mafia" cliques within the Catholic Church with increasing community tolerance for homosexuality.
And Waffen-SS units with a shared history of sickening crimes often fought harder and longer than Wehrmacht units without this.
But otherwise it is difficult to find evidence of something secret by definition.
I do believe Netanyahu's public statements about there no longer being war crimes is an effort to create the world's largest and least-elite mutual-blackmail clique. It shows a certain desperation.
Supposing the Israeli PM is a bad guy, which I don't know and don't hope, that doesn't mean all Israel is evil, it seems obvious but we should specify these, because of that, innocent Jewish will be attacked, but of course it's the same for anyone, blaming someone should really be done carefully, especially today, if we don't want innocent people to be attacked because of words dropped too quickly on Internet.
Systems, incentive structures, and institutions can foster evil by design, whatever the original morals of the members they recruit.
The televised behaviour of the contemporary IDF is probably the strongest proof of this we are likely to see.
How is the rape camp at Sde Tiedman going?
What Hamas did to Israelis on Oct 7 is what Zionism has been doing to Palestinians for eight decades.
That's too much, you just crossed the red line, justifying the Oct 7 is disgusting, you will pay for that, God don't forget
IF israel did or do the same thing (I never heard about that strangely...) it should be punished severely, just to be clear I want peace with everyone
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