Oddbean new post about login | logout I can't really relate to most of the people with large amounts of Bitcoin talking about the price. It's like watching people talk about the price of Apple stock, that bought it in the 90s.
Like, I'm happy for you, but you essentially won a lottery that doesn't sell me tickets.
Don't worry they have slogans for each and every occasion. Here we have a classic 'you get bitcoin at the price you deserve'. Or maybe someone will reply about DCA. https://image.nostr.build/cefb5178142a383e0c9b7740b9672b2315e7b02db1e75c964e44636bc30f2bce.jpg
I find the "price you deserve" especially noxious. Does someone deserve cheaper Bitcoin because they were in their 30s in NYC or Berlin in 2010 and had a couple grand to dump on a speculative asset? Like, dude.
That's like how they give poor people Bitcoin and then they're like, "And then they just turned it into USD and spent it!" ☹️ Yo, he bought food with it and paid his electrical bill, so that the refrigerator stays on and the food doesn't spoil.
you're right, though i also deeply dislike "you were just lucky" accusation, as if it wasn't a very emotional ride, and holding through all the FUD campaigns, dumps, altcoin hypes, leveraged daytrade nonsense, crashing and robbed exchanges, was just easy like that 🤷♀️
This is truth. Many early adopters were trolled, trashed and dumped on, and that wasn't easy to take. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've heard "bitcoin is only for stupid cucks gambling". The Same fucking situation with Nostr in like 2020-21, "you dumb bitch, that nostr thing is going nowhere, its unusable and useless" if you can handle people continuously shitting on you for years, its not about luck anymore. Early adopters always get the brunt. Conviction is not about "luck". Hanging on is difficult and you have to be okay with social rejection 1000x.
Nah. I have many friends who could get in and around 20k per coin and which is insanely cheap for corn. They didn’t. I was buying at $60k. First time I got curious about Bitcoin it was around 800 bucks. I didn’t buy anything until it was 8k. And even then I didn’t appreciate it and was playing with shitcoins instead of stucking. If I bought at 800 bucks I would sell when it got to 10k. Most of us if we got early we would sell it by now. People who got in very early and still hold most of it are OGs and if not them Bitcoin wouldn’t go as far as it went. Holdlers set the floor and their conviction is why many of new people didn’t sell when bear market was bad. There is people who drive shitty cars, dont go for nice holidays, dont buy trendy clothes, dont go out often, to stack more today, at these prices. They live cheaply, they want to have better future. Some stack for the children. You get Bitcoin at the price you deserve.
Caught up with a buddy this week whose roommate was mining in 2011. He sold it all and blew it on all the trappings life has to offer. He was in super early, but never understood it. He had to get it at the price he deserved with the rest of us. Almost all of us have a story of hearing about it 10 or more years ago. The information was always there, we just didn’t do the research. It’s worth internalizing.
I regret nothing. Its gonna take me years till im rich. If healthy I will get there one day. I want to retire before im very old, so I try to stack as much as I can. I dont see a better plan. Sometimes I stack less, I want to live also. Learning new skills in case this thing fails. If it doesn’t, great. Its been hell of a journey
I’m with you man. I’m fortunate enough to make a good living, have a wife onboard, and having a family on the way, I’ll take another 5 years or so of work and the ability to walk away over 25 years of dread on a hamster wheel never knowing if I’ll have enough to make it later in life. Could I have been done now if I took that 4 figures in BTC in 2014 instead of dollars, probably. But I’d have blown it when it 2x’d and probably gone into full BTC derangement syndrome.
The harsh reality is that tickets were available to everyone on earth with an internet connection. You didn’t even need money early on. Bitcoin was literally free, people were just giving it away. So technically yes you did have the ability to buy a ticket. Even though I bought fairly early, I should have been here even earlier. I knew about bitcoin in 2011 and chose not to act. That’s true for most OG’s. Then when we finally did act we had to endure ridicule about our beliefs in addition to the emotional volatility of our investment. It wasn’t easy in the slightest and most of the people I know from back then are out of bitcoin now. Very few hodled.
I'm the only person, other than my husband, that I know of, who had heard of it back then. Most people aren't chronically online. And people like my son were in elementary school.
The reality is that nearly every Joe Rogan listener heard about it in 2016. #844 - Andreas Antonopoulos. The Joe Rogan Experience. E. Sep 2016. 2 hr 18 min. That’s millions of everyday people. Best orange pill till this day.
This is all a very American discussion. Most people aren't American. Most people still don't know who Joe Rogan or Michael Saylor are. Nobody here has heard of them, or of Max Keiser. Most of them don't know who Jack Dorsey is, either. 🤷♀️
Im not American. Men in Europe listen to Rogan as much as Mericans 😉
No, they don't. I don't even listen to him. I only even know about him because people posted snippets in Twitter. I'm the only person I know of, who was on Twitter.
Oh yea they do. Before covid and Bitcoin podcasts Rogan was our Oprah
Nobody here even speaks English. 😂
Okaaaay im not saying in each corner of the world. There is villages in every country. If I didn’t learn english I probably wouldn’t hear of Rogan and many things. English is crazy cheat code. Now in 2024 you have opportunities to get Bitcoin under 50k often and everyone heard of it. No excuses for villages and normies
What I find strange is that many people still don’t want to study Bitcoin even though it’s now in the trillion dollar club. Maybe they think it’s too late. Or may be their ‘social circle’ is not interested so they have no peer pressure to take a look.https://media.tenor.com/iC7wy8xqkZUAAAAC/fans-audience.gif
I got the nerve up to buy and was reading up about it, but it was too expensive. I complained about that online, to someone, and he told me that you can buy parts of one. I'd been following and reading about it for years, without knowing that. I guess everyone assumed only rich people would buy it. Which was mostly true. Everyone was buying quantities of Bitcoin. People are completely incredulous, when I tell them that they can buy parts of a Bitcoin. That's still uncommon knowledge.
💯
It's called "Bitcoin", which sounds like one item, like a penny. And the other coins are all much smaller and affordable, as single items. Most people have heard of Bitcoin, now, but nobody knows what a Satoshi is.
Same! I thought they were some kind of rare Internet collectible for rich people
Yeah, I still don't see the ability to purchase small amounts being mentioned widely. Everyone just talks about the price of an entire Bitcoin, even on here. "One Bitcoin will now cost you over €50k and the number is only going to go up from there!" sounds like a reason to buy some... if you're already rich. Like hearing that houses in Malibu and Ferraris rose in price. Like, why should I care? 😂
yes, I wrote it off as a Giffen good. even buying it initially on an exchange was still not enough to understand what Satoshis were. when i finally tried cold storage (actually it took a few months more because I first got a Ledger, and their software doesn't make it clear that there are separate UTXOs so i ended up with Blockstream Jade ) and understood what Satoshis were, someone on here said: "Satoshis don't exist, they just measure UTXOs" So that further accelerated the fall into the rabbit hole I'm sorry I like to take out all my aggression on Ledger. but why did they leave me in the dark for so long about UTXOs? I'm sure I clicked around in their software enough to have discovered where they showed individual UTXOs, but thankfully I was adventurous to try another product (Jade) and that clearly showed different "coins" and the cost to combine them. I'm having the same issue now with BitKey. I don't know what it does with individual small UTXOs on the wallet. Does it just automatically consolidate them for me when I send transactions? will i be left with unspendable chunks in the future?
I don't completely get the UTXO thing, to be honest. I just got an inkling of it, when researching paper wallets. You end up needing lots of paper wallets because you can't spend a part of one. I somewhere picked up the 100k sats withdrawal rule, so I've been sticking to that. Don't know if it's a good rule.
It's a hurdle. I have some Bitkeys ready to give to some friends from Mexico who totally understand the money problem because they still remember when Mexico switched from the old peso to the new peso and overnight their grandmother's savings in pesos stuffed in the walls became worthless. So they are primed for Bitcoin, but now I have to explain why to only transfer large amounts to Bitkey and worry if Bitkey won't combine the utxos if they send too small quantities.
We are extrapolating past learning challenges into the future. What was hard to understand in the past will become easier. Just as the average Joe is now forced to understand inflation, he may also be forced to understand possible exit routes. There was a time you could live normally without the internet; now we live in a time where it’s hard to get both young and people off their digital gadgets ( said the dude typing on his phone ). Things change, hopefully for the better.
Well said, good reminder. We have the answers, and it takes some individual work to get there. I'm fortunate to have this fun challenge to tackle.
Yes. People with little time and little disposable income are unlikely to get early-bird seats at the bitcoin circus/carnival. C’est la vie.
you might check out sparrow wallet. it’s very good at giving you full visibility and control.
I dont listen to many podcasts anymore but I knew many men from different countries who knew of Rogan and at least listened to some episodes. He was da man. The red pill before orange pill. Voice of sanity in modern world.
I only know of three men who bought Bitcoin early on, and all of them sold. I, and another woman I've met (whose cousin was one of the men who had bought some), had heard of it circa 2010 and wanted to purchase some, but our husbands expressly forbid it. I've since met people at Bitcoin meetups, who own some, but even there, usually later buyers, such as myself. The idea that everyone was watching Rogan and hanging out online, 15 years ago, doesn't match my environment, at all.
Ps rogan is the “right wing” podcast. Wont catch me listening the fear factor host. Or oprah for that matter. “Bostcoin nostr” is so American centric that you feel at home in it.
Jack who?
That's legit how they respond. They have no idea who he is. They know Elon from Tesla.
bitcoin has never intended to be communist, these people dont do the proof of work of study and dont get the prize.
Empathy. Find some.
I mostly just find the slogans boring to listen to lol.
As all the slogans, "everyone buy bitcoin at the price they merit" cant represent an absolute truth, but a large approximation and euristic. I like a lot this slogan because I find that its a good approximation (correct in most of the cases) AND its also a lot controversial. Most people dont accept it and, applying some game theory, they have all the (communist) reasons to affirm that its just false. Its not perfectly correct, but after all the complains, its mostly correct. Even if it hurts.
A social media full of sloganeering is boring tho. Surely? People's tolerances for it varies too, as you can see from a lot of the comments of people who join and leave quite quickly.
nostr is freedom, thats nothing that forces slogans in feeds. The cure for that situation is "more non-slogan contents". Having "less slogan-contents" or "more anti-slogan complaints" dont change anything; you can opt-out from them in any moment, they cant hurt you. Slogan in my opinion are inevitable, is a social field where community review continuosly what informations are propagated and rejected (most memes are just slogans, compact ways to encapsulate and trasmit simple messages to much people). Slogans tells a lot about a community, and if it works well, his slogans would be never totally incorrect, but mostly correct in all the cases (and ever cringe). Bitcoin maxis slogans are in my opinion high quality mostly correct euristics, and its good to have them.
I think it is inevitable, I also think the frequency of it turns people off. Yes, you can mute them or ignore them. A lot of people won't do either, they'll just leave. Just seems to be what happens. I'm not arguing against the possibility of slogans having truths in them. I think it is a problem for clients/devs/people active in growth to grapple with rather than me. It's just the situation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
yeah, I also would love to see the variety of human perspective that other social can offer. I think this situation will be fixed by more people joining here, in the meantime solutions like cobrafuma.com are super cool to welcome people in a place that is not "a bitcoin twitter more retarded"
Hmm. Yes. I'm aware that I have some advantages, that make my life easier. Like being unusually smart and well-read. I don't judge other people for not having them. GN
Its not about judging, is just not be communist. Do you donate the more resources you can earn monthly cause of your unusually super talents? Would you do if some random guy point a finger to you saying that dont merit the resources you have cause you "won the lottery"? Thats the exact same thing as pointing your finger to the private property of OGs bitcoiner, and its communist and disrespectful.
empathy is not a so scarce resource, I have a lot of empathy for all humans💜. But not much bitcoin for them and its a good thing, otherwise it would mean we didnt inevented/discovered digital scarcity.
Here’s the empathy. The harsh reality of bitcoin adoption was true then and it’s still true now. The same feeling you have about people who were earlier than you will be had by people who were later than you about you. Bitcoin still has 100x + to go. The ultimate kindness is to make people aware of this reality and offer them help and resources to position themselves in order to take advantage.
I may have been later to bitcoin than HODL but I have stacked with every ounce of my earning potential since 2021. Religiously. I have made this investment in bitcoin not only the significant majority allocation of my portfolio but it is a huge piece of my identity. I have defended it to family, friends, acquaintances, and colleagues and when they laughed at me, ridiculed me, or ghosted me I have chosen my conviction over capitulating for their acceptance. For those who haven’t done something similar, you won’t reap the rewards I will reap. You won’t deserve those rewards until you find a similar conviction and embrace the “risk” I have embraced every day for the last 3.5 years. I’m not bitter about my timing to the bitcoin party … it was the only time that worked for me and my family … but I am intolerant towards those who proclaim I don’t deserve the success I have coming.
ignorance is caused by people following mainstream medias, its all their fault for 99% of people in most privileged areas of the world.
Hodl you were born right. That’s what it is
Thank you for recognizing my greatness lol
Lol you’re welcome
One of my partners in a business from 2010-2015 was a very active reddit user. We started selling our product online for .5 btc a unit at $89 for the lulz. Listened to early Keiser & Stacy, Ron Paul, Money Masters, daily Jack Spirko TSP, Wikieaks, Anonymous and spending Friday nights reading Zerohedge comment sections and Uncle Ted. We became back to the landers, studied permaculture and lived off grid with firm affirmation of our distrust in tech and government. 911, GFC, Occupy, Snowden. Traded the bcash, built a farm. Then went all in 2020 and built some businesses that are going SBR. Only appearing now for nostr.
its absolutely not a lottery ticket. Buy and HODL was an hard choice, information were not easy to grab and conceptualize, and it required a really good imagination to figure out that bitcoin would really work. Today is obvious, even because OGs elaborated this infos and made them available to more normie people to understand. Everyone has his history and could have his excuses, but the "everyone gets bitcoin at the price they deserved" is the best approximation and I, a young pleb 2021-class, fully agree with it. Also, if you really was a child back then, you probably have youth, and this is more precious than any bitcoin; I feel wealthier than most OGs bitcoiner, for example Humble people recognize their merit and their demerits, I recognize that in 2017 when first heard about bitcoin, didnt buy cause still was an adolescent without much money but also I had the demerit to not understanding absolute anything about money and why bitcoin should have been valuable. Everyone has his own history, humble people will make the best from the possibilities that life will present to them; crybabies/communists/evil people will judge smarter/virtuous/braver people and their property.
What would you define as a large amount?
I heard on a podcast that in a decade one Satoshi will be able to buy you a house so it's all a matter of time preference what you consider large.
