Oddbean

He means if you think supporting and furthering the Ukraine war so as to “stop russia here and now” is the answer then you truly don’t understand what’s going on. You openly admit you’ve never seen war and that it ruined lives of some relatives, yet you want to perpetuate one in the here and now that you are clearly unwilling to go participate in? So who, pray tell, should we send to fight a fight that isn’t ours nor is it as dire as you claim? You aren’t jumping up to go and yet you want Americans to rail for your war so eventually ourselves or our children are the ones to go make the sacrifice you refuse to. The propaganda has worked on you. What’s implied in the note you’re replying to is that stacking sats is a lot better way to end wars period. Much better than the idiocy you advocate for where the retards in charge have laundered billions (trillions?) of our stolen tax money in a meat grinder to line their own pockets while sacrificing the men of an entire generation. The russian gov is not good, the ukrainian government is even worse, and the american government is a complete lie. I’ve sacrificed enough, I’ve seen more blood spilled than your little brainlet can fathom. I refuse to perpetuate more war. Respectfully, kick rocks, you naive child.

My children are older than your son. Having been born in the Soviet Union, it so happens I understand Russian, although that is not my native language. Me knowing that language is a consequence of Russian occupation that my nation went through. I can also read Ukrainian, but to a lesser extent. I am saying this to explain that I can and do consume primary sources on what’s going on in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus. Your assessment that Ukraine is ‘worse’ can only be a result of some type of propaganda that you have been exposed to. Because if you would have gathered information from primary sources for the past decade, you would know that this is simply not true. I don’t ask for Americans to send troops to Ukraine. Not least because that would provoke a direct confrontation with NATO, which would pull my country directly into the conflict, and part of the frontline would be situated directly in it. The fact of the matter is though, that Ukrainians have nowhere to go. The beast has come to their house, the fight is on their soil. Where are they supposed to flee to? All I’m saying is, while they are fighting, they should get everything needed to defend themselves. Because if they stop fighting, and Ukraine stops existing as it gets subsumed by the beast, that will just embolden it. And less than a decade from now, there will be an attack on a NATO country, and that’s when you’ll end up sending Americans to again die in faraway places. That’s the path we’re on of Russia doesn’t suffer a decisive defeat resulting in the collapse of Putin’s regime.

Americans just don't see it. When they, let's say Mexico is a fucking superpower, would be attacked they would all be in protecting what's theirs. I understand why they don't want to send their money to something they don't see as a threat. Or war generally. What I don't understand is why they think the war will end if UA is defeated. It won't. We know that from the past. Our lands have been occupied for decades and we don't want that again. Sadly there is no such scenario. Easter and central europe will burn and endup under those fuckers again.

They are just being naive when it comes to Russia. I guess it’s a natural human thing. People just before WW1 or two didn’t exactly think it’d unfold the way it did. I mean, it’s not like I don’t understand the sentiment. I do. I think that wanting to get out of NATO, not getting involved in any wars not on their soil, and leaving Europe to its own devices, is a coherent position to have. But then, don’t pretend it has anything to do with pacifism, freedom, or striving for a better world. Because it’ll be a world where the last islands of freedom are increasingly puppeteered by authoritarian regimes.

I like the idea when a invading force (cough cough russia) arrives to an armed community. There is no army to fight with. But they're gonna be hit from every window and corner. on every occasion. Unfortunatly, there is only a couple of countries in europe where you own means of protection. I'm glad CZ is. (btw. I want a tank. and a helicopter!)

Yeah.. I find that a bit naive, sorry! I think what this war has demonstrated is that what matters is the ability to strike the enemy supply lines, as well as concentration points deep behind enemy lines. So rocket propelled artillery, and such. Further, on the frontline it’s really about drones, electronic warfare, and armored vehicles. Everyone having a weapon will just make everyone a legitimate target first, and an immediate subject of torture in any areas captured by the enemy. Really, the only role you want to be in if you find yourself in the combat zone is to be a combatant.

Depends on what the ivasion goal is. true. Let's say there is no resistance at all. and then we use everything we have later. Until they sieze it. Yes, we will be called terrorists. we were in the past under 3rd reich.

The whole situation is very very sad. As someone who has first hand experience with Russia and it's imperialism we simply all have totally different views. I can totally understand that someone behind the ocean doesn't want to pay for this war or even actively fight it. But as you said to believe Russian propaganda is just very very naive. There is no good choice in this, there never was, it is fucking war! There will be always people killed and lives ruined. But I think we as "the west" have chosen the worst option of them all. We either should support UA much more strongly from the start and push Putin diplomatically etc. or we should let him swallow UA without fight and prepare for next war. We have chosen something in the middle which means people are dying in endless war and yet at the end it may happen Russia will emerge victorious and looking for other target & we here in Europe will not be ready.

Guess who is naive. Nobody’s safe from the evil in man. Taking others shit with violence is part of our civilization to this day. If you think you can stop war by giving up and getting under the boot of oppressors I don’t know what to tell you.

To be fair, I get the point you don’t want your own ppl to be sent to Ukraine when it seems all so far removed. And you’re right I’m not going to war but I do believe that america as corrupt it is has more decency than Putin and his sheeps.