Oddbean new post about login | logout Are brainwaves and all that sort of stuff pseudoscience or is it legitimate? You know this whole thing of being able to meditate and get into different brain states. Stoners are always talking about this kind of shit, and although they are as friendly a bunch as you would like to meet, I never found them the most persuasive. #AskNostr
Yes. Have you meditated. Its actually whole experience that you in your mind travel to different brian states. We have been steered away from our connection to the universe.
At the risk of sounding surly, this all sounds very 'stoner-y' if you know what I mean. Sure, I've meditated before, prayed before, you know, sat on the edge of a lake and thought very deeply and calmly before, but does that constitute a change in brain state via the mechanism of 'brainwaves'? Does it always have to be a profound esoteric ritual that enables these sorts of change in brain state, or could it happen simply when I am taking a shit or something?
This response kinda sounds like you aint meditate on a serious level. We are energy with frequency waves that effect or emotions and health. Frequency waves brain waves in music and shows television is how they have you thinking this speculation.
I don't mediate on a serious level? You can see into the heart and mind of men can you? See, this is the kind of reason why this kind of stuff gets such a bad rap in my opinion. There is a tendency for charlatans to pontificate to the uninitiated. Tell me oh wise one, what is the true way? How should I mediate?
Well i started 4 years ago. I started with 2 minutes every morning and at night. Night session went uo gradually. I count my breath on exhales to 4 and restrat. And when your mind wounders try and bring it bqck and center and continue the breathing. I was taught when you meditate its best to calm the mind but the mind does wonders off so try to breing it back to the center of nothing and breath.. i followed this and 20 minutes was a whole trip I also learned this in drug rehab and it has help throughout me stay away from drugs actual hard drugs.. But there is no wrong way to meditate well the way is dou g 1 minute and saying nothing happens because at first i thought this and played myself
I'm glad it has bore fruit for you friend, goodness knows we all suffer from vice.
Different forms of meditation elicit different responses. Breath meditation can be used for mindfulness / relaxation or used to turn on autoimmune responses (documented) Candle or colour gazing can be used to alter brain waves and is being studied for its link to DMT production. Intention before and during the meditation is a key part of the experience.
So do you still do this regularly? Would you say that you can feel the moment that the change in the brainwaves happens?
Once or twice a week in the morning. No more nights
I offer this story. I was at the VA hospital to see a doctor. Someone in the waiting room said something & I allowed it to anger me. Immediately after I was called back. My heart rate was extremely high. Explained to nurse that was abnormal & to “give me a minute to meditate & it will be fine.” As I calmed myself she said she was amazed how quickly my heart rate dropped to a normal speed. She asked how this was possible to “control” my heart rate that way. My response was by breathing & calming. Later I realized the way my body reacted to my emotions. I’ve probably always “felt” my emotions but never pinpointed it so specifically before. What I say now is specific to me & I don’t believe it’s the only truth regarding any healing or meditation practice. 🙏 At the time, I’d been meditating for years. It was an attempt to get past trauma. I had done other forms of therapy as well. It started as a habit to relax my body during long bouts of insomnia. After that day at the hospital, I recognized that by attempting to meditate AWAY from the trauma I disallowed myself the lessons I could learn from them. Maybe that’s odd. By “accepting” my trauma as something I experienced is how my mind eventually accepted it. Hope that helps you understand more. Truly. 😊
Dont see why not consodering humans like music and beats so much, and how it can affect how we feel and act (eg nickleback makes me angry).. invisible sound waves, brainwaves etc. Feels like part of the same thing.
Nickleback XD
Nickleback is a good name for them. If you paid a nickle to see them, you would want it back.
Nice, Dad
Np son *pats head*
"different brain states" Clearly the brain is capable of experiencing more than 1 state - otherwise all experience would be completely uniform I don't believe that there is something supernatural to which our brains might be attuned Can we, by meditation or drugs, induce a dream-like state while waking? Probably. Is it beneficial to do so? I am quite doubtful. I think much human foolishness comes from stimulating a natural and healthy mechanism outside of its evolved context. For example, homosexuality stimulates reproductive urges (and the attendant pleasure) outside of the reproductive context.
The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.
Damn turtles They kidnapped the princess
Brainwaves can be measured with an EEG. That’s how they can diagnose seizures because sharp spikes or disruptions in brainwaves are seen. There are different frequencies of brain waves. When people have been studied meditating depending on their practice level they go into more relaxed brainwave states. I believe Alpha brainwaves are typically seen in meditation, while advanced practitioners exhibit Theta. Delta brainwaves are seen in deep dreamless sleep. Look up some of the studies on it. I think you’ll find it interesting. Based on what I know about the brain. I think we currently know about as much about the brain as the entirety of space. Also kind of cool how it’s the one organ that studies itself. https://image.nostr.build/3ffaf698ee1a1b645bd30495892f1df1605650f570afe37cf9feaf63fd04b8b1.jpg
Cheers Mallory, must look into it. Pretty mental that it studies itself, although sometimes my hand studies my mickey, but that's not to be talked about at a polite venue like Nostr.
Just looking at that chart there, and yeah, you can see all these frequencies, but like , what are they, is it electricity or something?
Yep. The brain and heart both have electrical impulses. Brain death is when the brain consistently has no electrical impulses but the body is being kept alive by machines.
Touch wood.
It’s like electrical charge. Difference between ion concentration either side of a cell membrane/neurone/synapse. Think how a battery works, but the concentrations can change very rapidly. Hard to explain here though.
Here, there or anywhere I would wager. Fascinating.
It’s incredibly fascinating stuff but also the potential to be somewhat scary when fused with tech. Forget AI on its own, it’s things like Neuralink and the fusion of neuroscience with tech/AI that concerns me more.
Yeah that does sound abominable given the calibre of cretins running the show.
Then we have advances like deep brain stimulation that have given some people their lives back from debilitating symptoms. Biomedical engineering is a strange beast and you have to question the ethics of something at every turn. What I know of the Neuralink project, I’m not a fan.
Brave New World shit.
Medical advances historically have frequently been built on questionable activities. Medical ethics is a relatively new field.
If I had to wager, the funding in this new field goes to those who justify such advances, rather than condemn them.
Medical ethicists frequently work at hospitals to help define guidelines of care or help vet how a clinical study is designed or how informed consent forms are worded. They don’t really stand in the way of advances.
Well that speaks to my point. Perhaps ethicist is a misnomer for that very reason. Perhaps 'advance' is a misnomer, I mean who gets to decide, if not these so called 'ethicists'?
Ethicists aren’t deciding what is or isn’t an advance. They’re trying to work to make sure clinical practice and medical studies are humane. They’re like the philosophers of the medical community.
I'm hypercynical, don't hold it against me. I shall investigate these 'medical ethicists' and see what their motivations are, and who they answer too. I see too that there is something called bioethics?
Similar fields. They’re like the philosophy students in college who didn’t want to work at a sandwich shop after graduation. At the end of the day they’re most likely to be paid/employed by hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. Probably much like other jobs you get bright eyed optimists and others who will be “yes men” for a paycheck.
Of course, in practice many medical ethicists' work is to limit any legal and financial troubles for the organization they work for. In the ideal scenario, thir focus is to "do no harm" and to be minimally intrusive to the lives of the patient. Like many fields, individuals in this field walk a line being pulled by their financial influences and the ideals they've been trained on & expected to uphold. https://patient.info/doctor/medical-ethics
Sounds more like they don't want to hire a lawyer tbh.
Oh they work with lawyers many times.
Oh they do? Okay.
Meeeeh. Medical ethics is a practice designed to keep insurance premiums low. IMO.
Maybe malpractice insurance premiums
Yes.
My personal opinion there are some medical providers who get so lost in the mechanics of the body and disease process that they forget they’re treating a human being. Medical ethicists and even more front line social workers and patient advocates are needed to keep things in perspective. Care teams are essential in modern medicine.
I need to learn about this new group of gatekeeper, thank you for bringing my attention to them.
Hmmm... Most of that I'll agree with except that most doctors (not so much nurses) these days are exclusively drug pushers. You must follow the approved script for symptom X. AI is better at this already. I don't want doctors that aren't going to treat me, holistically, unless I've suffered acute trauma.
I love a lot about biomedical engineering, especially biomechanics (should have gone done that path in hindsight) but like cloning they are going to face a lot of ethical questions now and in the future. I also think it’s not a massive leap of the imagination to believe sentience/consciousness is attainable.
Oh I totally geek out on biomedical engineering and related fields. One of the things I’m absolutely fascinated by is how little is known or understood about how cerebrospinal fluid works. There just haven’t been good ways to study it in action. We know it’s essential. A lot of information is missing about exactly why or how it works.
That does sound fascinating! Going to have to research that now. I was quite into the structure of articular cartilage and implants/joint replacement tech as well as cell-material interfacing/bonding but alas went down an entirely different path. Still try and read about it when I can though.
