Oddbean

I curse like a drunken sailor sometimes. If someone wants a bot to prevent seeing posts where my language gets colorful. Great! I’m not owed an audience. Nor do I really care to interact with people so easily offended. I figure it works out for both parties.

It's not just not seeing, its your content gets tagged, with time and more bots your notes will be labbed accordingly to this bots, and it almost becomes part of the protocol, and you don't know if the labelin is fair at all, imagine your content being labeled "racist" and people might follow you or not based on that. A client might show your profile with those tags.

People can do this as an attack if the don't like you. Flag you out of spite. Just gives tools to oppress. I don't expect my message to find a place in people's minds. But I do mind my messages getting flagged for benign reasons. Smacks of boot licking, daddy govt worshipping.

The thing is people will follow the most "reliable" bot, but then you create a problem, it's a bot, it will make a lot of mistakes, people will complain about not being seen, getting wrong flags etc. And the the bot owner is going to make some tweeks to accommodate, so basically this person is in fact responsible for the tagging of behalf of hundred or thousands of people. And your right, it's a privacy concern also.

Bots need a human hand behind them. Are humans infalible? I think not. Will the bots do dumb shit? Yes, they will. Garbage code in, crap results out. What makes this worse, is that Rabble is thinking that he's the one for the job. Not a single human being on the face of the earth is qualified to police another person's speech. Unless you are a parent to a three year old who says "fuck" a lot. Then you have a different set of problems.

And now do Main Volume and his racist and misogynistic slurs. Nostr has lots of bots. I’ve read the thread carefully. You want your idea of free speech and being against "leftist thoughts“ and other nonsense to be seen as normal? So let others have their protection from it. That’s a lot of reframing while you’re promoting a thicker skin that you obviously don’t have yourself. If you’ve talked about the topic without insults, I would have tried to believe in your noble efforts to save us all from the wrong bots. Now, I'll mute you, and happily try other methods to avoid wasting time on your dull content.

Agree. Many Nostr advocates will talk about freedom of speech, while working to ensure that community continues to be an echo chamber for bitcoiners and people with certain political leanings. This is also why there is so much resistance to tweaks to the platform that would attract a more diverse user base in terms of interests and content. The Nostr community then has the nerve to act clueless about why Nostr doesn’t have more mainstream appeal. I can find more varied content and discussions on traditional social media, which is ironic considering nostriches view Nostr as a bastion of freedom of thought/speech. Even when reading comment threads on Nostr, I rarely see differing opinions or perspectives shared. There is also a lack of nuance in the opinions offered. The community is very homogeneous and that’s a problem and boring quite frankly.

A lot newcomers have spoke about having difficulty finding new people to follow with similar interests beyond bitcoin and typical Nostr talk. There are solutions that exist to do this, but there’s resistance to implementing them because using algorithms violates user freedom according to some people. The onboarding process also isn’t straightforward. Most people have to find a tutorial online in order to set up their an npub and wallet. These things negatively affect the user experience and are barriers to the platform growing. I know these things take time to develop. I am not a dev, so I am complaining about things that I can’t fix and requesting people to do free labor for my convenience, which is annoying. On the other hand, if you are building a platform, then you should care about user feedback.

I think onboarding onto primal is a good fix for now while the other clients improve. As for algos, as long as you can choose if you want one or not and you can pick between multiple, then it's fine. I'm curious if there's any actual devs blocking this, or if it's just a fear.

We talked to about a hundred current and former users of Nostr. There were many themes that emeged. One was that people who didn’t know about bitcoin kind of liked being able to do zaps. Another was that they wanted to see content not talking about bitcoin, using it was cool, but constantly talking about it wasn’t their jam. Many users felt like the branding of Nostr as being anti-censorship and radically pro-free speech would draw a crowd they weren’t interested in being part of, that was a perception issue. Many users, and in particular women, had been repeatedly harassed and stalked. They were fine with people saying the most offensive stuff but they didn’t want to see it in their notifications, dm’s, on a global feed, in trending posts, or as replies to their posts. The content labeling and report functionality that people are complaining about are ways for Nostr users to control their own experience. We created content warnings and client filtering options because it solved a problem that was driving people away from Nostr. Now one important thing, Nos and most Nostr apps only display and use reports from people you follow. To use and display all reports and labels from any relay and any npub is a bad idea. It opens you up to anyone who wants to spam you. The only folks who should see or care about @Reportinator are the people who follow it. Just like the dm’s are divided up between people you follow and randos. Nostr is about you having the sovereignty over what you publish and what your relays host. You choose which client you want to use, that decides what data you see and which algorithms are used to sort the posts. You do not get a say over what other people publish or what they host in their relays. Some people want content labeling and reporting. Some people want to use a bot which does AI labeling. Is it perfect, far from it, but it is part of the design of Nostr that there isn’t some centralized system of control. That means if other people want a bot that labels content, all you can do is choose not to use that content. You can not censor the bot off of the network.

I got my kids to stop saying “fuck” when they were little by explaining what it means. Kind of like I’m explaining how Nostr works to folks freaking out about someone else on Nostr publishing report and label events that reference their content.