WoT and a seed user npub (inviter) would be a great start 

 nostr:note1vajejjkjd3zadkv3qxx4dhn4j6n2p4f027f8wrch259enrknhayqz2dk30 

 there should be a similar razor as Occams for engineering solutions

the simplest solution out of a range of options is usually the most effective 

 Here is the user story. Shout out to @The: Daniel⚡️ for inspiring discussion at nostrville on my favorite user story thus far

https://github.com/damus-io/damus/issues/1696 

 Coracle has something very similar to this (pubkeys, relays, groups, rather than topics).

https://coracle.us-southeast-1.linodeobjects.com/invites.mov 

 Love the personalization. Nostr needs more personalization 

 it's a client side thing though, just a matter of an invite link with onboarding flow and and immediate view of that feed while they spin up their identity

need an easy flow for nos2x type tool - it doesn't have a keygenerator in it last i recall using it... alby has a master key seed generation scheme but that's invite only, so, yeah

i think if you want to promote onboarding you need to fork nos2x and add a better visual and put a generator and backup word key thing 

 yes just should add... WoT was the killer feature that made it really hard for me to switch to nostrudel because i needed outbox model, and i miss the almost working NIP-42 as well

make outbox model for coracle and tighten up NIP-42 and i'll be back 

 You keep saying coracle doesn't do outbox, but... it does. What in particular is missing? 

 when i use it with my relay's chat bot, which often doesn't have even a profile published to the relay, i get all kinds of funny things happening with DMs, and the NIP-42 often takes a minute to actually go through

i wrote a chat flow that asks the user to reply with a challenge text and it lets me auth on chat in 10 seconds

i've written a tool that knows how to respond to a NIP-42 challenge auth envelope, and it does it instantly, it usually takes a minute or more, way way longer than i have the patience for to do testing

the lack of NIP-42 support is almost my biggest pet peeve of all existing nostr clients out there

it's SO easy to do it, but none work 

 Is that why my filter.nostr.wine relay keeps getting dropped on Coracle? I keep adding it, but it doesn't seem to work and eventually just disappears from the list. 

 ah yeah i get that one too... very often being dropped, or publishing disabled

it's because the NIP-42 support is not very solid yet

it's better! actually, come to think of it, it seems to work perfectly in nostrudel but nostrudel doesn't respond to my relay's auth challenges 

 i can only speculate that nostr.wine accepts posts signed by paid users by default no matter where they came from, and that they are not already existing in the database 

 @hzrd149 @Mazin  question: nostrudel doesn't support my relay in development when it has auth-required in the limitation field of NIP-11 but it does work with nostr.land and nostr.wine - either of you two have any tips on how i get my relay to cooperate properly there? 

 Not me 🤷‍♂️ 

 what relay are you running nostr.wine on? so i can try and figure out why it makes nostrudel do auth... i'm guessing maybe it's a NIP-11 thing, and i thought i'd implemented it but maybe i haven't i mean, if it's vanilla i suppose the relay info page will show 

 it only gives info about it being 0.3.1 what? no software field filled in in the NIP-11 

 doesn't say it's strfry, is it the rust one? 

 The backend is strfry but we run our own custom proxy socket in front for AUTH and account management (not open source). 

 ah, and here we see more reasons why this hasn't become widely supported

thanks 

 i won't be renewing my nostr.wine subscription or recommending it anymore until i hear you open sourced this sprocket

i can't believe what i'm reading rn 

 I don't understand what I'm reading, TBH. What are they doing and why is it not ideal? 

 you know about the direct message metadata leak problem right?

we are so far away from having this solved while people are keeping necessary NIP-42 implementations under wraps

it's short term thinking about their own gain and zero thought about the bigger picture for the protocol and its future, completely unnecessary, there really isn't that many competitors out there and this kind of short cut to keeping them out is contrary to everything this stuff is supposed to be about 

 NIP-42 shouldn't only be a gate to paid access it should also gate access to DMs and application specific data 

 So, you're saying that the implementations are too narrow in scope? 

 i'm saying that it's an elephant in the room - free speech is fine but a reasonable layer of protection against access to privileged data - we here see a prisoner's dilemma that nobody wants to take the cost (a few days effort) to solve, which is abombinable 

 I think this won't change, until more people use SDKs.  Everyone will just build the absolute minimum they need. The correct model is for them to only implement the minimum they need from the core library. 

 Yeah, Nostrudel seems to work. 

 I left the npub and everything off, this time. Seeing if that works. Just the relay address. 

 Ok, but none of that is the outbox model 

 doesn't change the fact i can't use it for testing 

 Yeah, but I can't fix outbox if I don't know what's wrong with it, you didn't answer my question 

 it isn't contacting my relay even though it's in the relay list - the only entry even

it looks like the relay list in coracle still works by the old relay lists and not NIP-65 in/outbox lists, to me, that's why i said it

it only worked well when i ran an instance and locked it to my relay 

 the NIP-42 worked better in the custom instance situation too, like sometimes as quick as 10 seconds or less to auth 

 Cool, I'll look into both those things 

 yeah i saw you had worked on the relay list page to add the ability to easily add more... maybe to add some buttons so you can set relays as in/outbox?