Oddbean new post about login | logout Oh, FFS…it's my mouse! My stupid Microsoft Precision Mouse that has already been replaced under warranty once! When I use my wife's mouse, it no longer happens. My mouse is connected via a USB cable, and the issue reproduces on a fresh install of macOS Sonoma with zero third-party software installed. So it has to be a hardware issue with the mouse—a hardware issue that only manifests when more than one user is logged in and window dragging happens with other visible windows, which is wild!
@a6ff0b2b Oh my god
@a6ff0b2b Have you tried unplugging and replugging in the same mouse? I am wondering if merely a change to the USB connection also solves it.
@54de214a Yeah, and I also tried plugging it into different USB ports.
@a6ff0b2b (Years ago, in a smoke filled room deep inside an undisclosed location somewhere in Redmond.) “Thanks do the dominance of Windows and Office, which combined with the moderate success of Xbox, we've successfully driven a vast majority of people completely insane at least once in their life. Gentlemen, ”most people” is not enough. We can do more.” (Advances to a slide with your face and Microsoft peripherals.)
@a6ff0b2b could it be that it’s actually still a “software”issue somehow related to an attribute specific hardware? Something like a poll rate out the mouse not being able to be handled correctly when other systems are “in process”? Can’t think of anything that could possibly make it happen only if there are other visible windows if it was just a hardware bug. (Caveat: I’m just a Python programmer- I have no idea what I’m talking about)
@28a8ce2d Maybe macOS communicates back to the mouse via USB when it's going to reposition the cursor, like it does when dragging one window near another in macOS?
The same mouse works fine when connected via Bluetooth. It’s only when connected via USB that the bug happens.
@a6ff0b2b write something to peg one CPU, and see if it reproduces more easily on BT? 🤔 Try connecting to the machine over Screen Sharing and if it repros there via a VNC cursor
I can reproduce the problem on an Intel MacBook Air and an M1 Mac Studio using the same mouse connected via USB.
@a6ff0b2b finally some progress!
@a6ff0b2b I have a SteelSeries USB mouse and a BT Logitech mouse connected at the same time. When multiple users are logged in the windows jump around with the USB mouse but not the BT mouse. Log the other user out and it goes away after a short while. M1 MacBook Pro on 13.5.2. So the issue could be USB mouse + multiple logged in users?
@ec93462c Yes, although not *all* USB mice. I have a Logitech USB mouse that does not exhibit the problem. What mouse are you using?
@a6ff0b2b all I have is 2 versions of the SteelSeries Sensei. Product numbers 62150 and 62155. All I can think of is a higher polling rate? https://devicetests.com/mouse-rate-test shows a max of 100hz for the BT mouse and 1000hz for the USB mice.
@a6ff0b2b Wild. I remember asking about the USB overdrive stuff you’d used at one point. It never occurred to me that the actual mouse could be doing it! Perhaps it triggers interrupts so fast the Mac Pro USB stack gets jammed up with flood it didn’t expect? I’d be curious about other high speed mice.
@948015c9 Man, I pulled out every third-party thing I could think of before I eventually confirmed that it also happens on a bone-stock fresh install of Sonoma with zero third-party software installed.
@a6ff0b2b Amazing. If it helps—you’ll be telling this story for years to come. Truly a Big Fish tail of computer weirdness.
@948015c9 Also, it happens on an Intel MacBook Air and an M1 Mac Studio, and with at least two other mice when connected via USB: SteelSeries and this weird retro thing STS tried https://youtu.be/miN8sADrsgA And don't forget the requirement that more than one user is logged in!
@a6ff0b2b That second user is curious. Maybe the window server is doing a bunch of work for both users? If you’re feeling like exploring maybe try logging in a bunch of users and see if the behaviour gets worse in some relation to that.
@948015c9 I tried it with four users, and it seems about the same as with two.
@a6ff0b2b @948015c9 @9c59d669 I was a Mac tech for 11 years, fixing ~5000 iBooks, iMacs, PMG4s, etc. It showed me that everyone gets problems and computer headaches, they just scale with the competence and skill of the user, so beginners get simple problems, and pros get difficult to reproduce intermittent bugs. You must be quite the power user(s) to get this kind of problem - and I am so glad to see you guys solve it! 👍🏼
@a6ff0b2b @948015c9 I suppose if you are ‘aAdmin’ stuffing the other accounts with goodies, that’s fine for Linux, but my old Luddite ways have never thinking one desktop or laptop, one log in at a time, one user. That is, other accounts would be Logged out automatically Are multiple log ins open simultaneously on one terminal common everyday practice?
@a6ff0b2b https://bestlifeonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/09/dell-dude-1.jpg?quality=82&strip=all Dude, you’re getting a Logitech
@62523fea Keep reading!
@a6ff0b2b this whole saga reminds me of the story from Hypercritical where the neighbor’s TV remote was setting off the smoke alarm. Can’t wait for this week’s ATP! https://hypercritical.fireside.fm/58
@a6ff0b2b that is not how that should work, I hate computers
@a6ff0b2b On one hand, Yay! You figured out the issue On the other… Destroy that little, evil device so that it can't hurt you anymore https://media.hachyderm.io/media_attachments/files/111/179/601/747/545/262/original/c0947c7292209979.mp4
@3173b504 Keep reading…
