Oddbean

"If there are more signs of bad fruit, we need to consider whether our faith is real and respond accordingly." This may be due to my incomplete understanding of Reformed theology, but it would seem that this statement conflicts with the doctrine of Irresistible Grace. Do you hold to all the points of TULIP? I struggle to wrap my head around how a believer can be said to respond to grace in this or that way, when that grace is said to be irresistible. Maybe you can help me understand the finer points better? — This is a comment on: https://yakihonne.com/article/naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzprf5h5jryfqv2cm3wj3akxgc0za2rsfn4mrnndj2yep9naq5hcetqyw8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytfsxyh8jcttd95x7mnwv5hxxmmdqyw8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytfsxgh8jcttd95x7mnwv5hxxmmdqy08wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytfsxvhxgmmjv9nxzcm5dae8jtn0wfnsz9rhwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjmcpremhxue69uhkummnw3ez6vpj9ejx7unpveskxar0wfujummjvuqq6vfhxyur2dpkxcunqdfn8qmdlncn

"A division within the Church has never occurred, nor indeed can one take place, while apostasy from the Church has and will continue to occur after the manner of those voluntarily fruitless branches which, having withered, fall away from the eternally living theanthropic Vine—the Lord Christ (John 15:1-6). From time to time, heretics and schismatics have cut themselves off and have fallen away from the one and indivisible Church of Christ, whereby they ceased to be members of the Church and parts of her theanthropic body. The first to fall away thus were the gnostics, then the Arians, then the Macedonians, then the Monophysites, then the Iconoclasts, then the Roman Catholics, then the Protestants, then the Uniates, and so on—all the other members of the legion of heretics and schismatics.” + St Justin Popovich

Although I have a lot of beliefs in common I don't consider myself part of the reformed theology. I do believe in Irresistible Grace because I believe in the absolute sovereignty of God. I can't deny this absolute sovereignty that is spoken of throughout scripture. I explain it to myself this way (although I admit that I likely don't have perfect understanding. As the creature, we shouldn't expect to fully understand the Creator.) Due to the sin of Adam and Eve, we have a sin nature. That nature causes everyone to reject God. If we could have true, complete faith we would be accepted by Him, but our sin nature makes this impossible. When God "calls" or "elects" a person, He unchains them from their sin nature. Once we are freed from our sin nature, there is no other choice, but to repent and trust Him as Savior because our nature and His nature make it so. I'll admit I am still trying to fully understand His sovereignty and our choice.

Why would we think that, unchained from sin nature, there is no other choice but to accept God? Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature, but they still freely rejected God. If Christ's redemption redeems and elevates our nature by union with Christ, then would not that raise us to the freedom to love God as Jesus loves God the Father? It would seem to me that, for this love to be freely given, the possibility must exist that this love may be freely refused, as well.

Sorry, I didn't respond right away. This wasn't an easy, whip up a quick response, kind of answer and I went out of town for my son's birthday trip to a theme park/water park and an eye appointment and when I got back, I was doing VBS (vacation bible school) with our church. This was the first chance to try to give a proper response. I actually decided to do a long form post. I'll tag you on the post.

Also, there are people who say they have trusted Jesus or become a Christian, but that belief is based on the beliefs of their family or them wanting a "get out of jail free" card or some other non-internalized belief. The Bible says that "the demons also believe, and shudder." (James 2:19b). It isn't enough to just believe that God exists or that Jesus exists. You have to admit who He is, His character, our sin, and repent of that sin and submit to His will and authority. There will be plenty of people who consider themselves Christians, but who are not. "21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" (Matthew 7:21-23) I guess you could call them the illegal aliens. Jesus calls them the tares among the wheat. I do believe that a person can truly know that they are saved and a child of God, but we cannot know for certain on another person, although we can have a pretty good idea by their fruits.