Oddbean new post about login | logout Dear Nostr users, would the ability to send and receive zaps via Liquid be of interest? We're currently discussing with Amethyst devs on ways to make this possible. Let us know in the comments! ⚡️🌊nostr:note1w7402qa6eghyd8r2qpwj5pue4a2gxp74ezgdsx2q36s509v9kv9qgcvfcm
You can already do this with @AQUA Wallet. I don’t think many do it cause the fees are too high for small amounts like most zaps are. Min send amount for Aqua is 1k sats because it doesn’t make any sense to send payments for less than that amount.
You can’t receive zaps via Aqua can you? Send, yes.
Yeah, but I have no idea who’d want to do that. Min receive amount is 1k sats.
Who wouldn’t want to receive 1k sats? 😜 The problem there isn’t Liquid, it’s people being cheap fucks when they zap. 😂
people would just think something is broken cause most of their zaps would fail. i mean they can build it if they want. i just think it would be a waste of time.
The problem is that self-custodial lightning is too complicated for the average person. Custodial lightning wallets are imposing limits on transactions and balances that make them increasingly unusable for content creators. That relegates lighting zaps to a play thing and I think we see that in people’s behavior, zapping only 21 sats here, 10 sats there. It’s never going to be a serious competitor to other content platforms at that rate. Client UI can help people understand if sending a Liquid zap that a minimum amount of X is required. They can choose to send or not. I think it should be tried.
Liquid is too slow for zaps.
Right, aren’t blocks like 2 min? I guess options are good, this doesn’t seem like a good fit
Doesn’t liquid integrate with Lightning?
I don’t think natively.
Sounds like it could potentially be pretty powerful if Confidential Transactions can hide the amount of LBTC on a Lightning node.
Why too slow? Once sent, the sender doesn’t haven’t to worry about confirmation time and doesn’t need to remain online during the confirmation period.
Maybe you are right. Things are already so confusing. Do we need a new type of zaps that don’t work for everyone? We have Bolt12 headwinds coming anyway. I like Blockstream, a lot. It’s just Liquid isn’t happening.
Self custodial lightning has proven itself so far to be a bad solution for tips on nostr, as much as every bitcoiner may wish the situation was different. Bolt12 doesn’t fix that because the receiving wallet still has to remain online to receive payments and still has to have adequate incoming liquidity. A mere handful of people in the world are going to bother dealing with that. Everyone else will continue to use custodial solutions. Liquid is proven and reliable especially when compared to other options like fedi and cashu. Maybe that will change over time, but for now I wouldn’t touch cashu/fedi zaps with a 10 foot pole for anything beyond small play amounts until they’re more proven. Liquid isn’t perfect either, but it’s preferable to running and maintaining a lightning node.
The problem is, that you right on every point. Yet I think the ship has sailed.
What ship? 😅
The shipcoin ship.
With all seriousness. This is like HD-DVD and BlueRay. We chose BlueRay. It’s very difficult to change now.
I don’t agree with that because lightning and liquid are interoperable. Much different situation than video formats. Being unable to receive payments while offline is a huge issue for Lightning. There is no winning solution for that issue yet, and the only viable solution so far, custodial Lightning, is becoming less available, not more. What will take its place?
I don’t know. Custodial Bitcoin Vs Non-custodial Not Bitcoin. Hard choice really.
Why not advocate for mweb and zside Zcash orchard drivechain then it's non custodian with better privacy
I don't know. This issue is about compromises. and i dont think we settled on what is the best compromise.
I appreciate liquid and find it quite useful. Thank you! But given its typical transaction fee of ~260 sats and 1 min block time, how could it work with the small amount of a typical zap? Now if the functionaries also ran an ecash fediment, that would be very interesting!
Don’t be a cheap fuck and zap more. That’s how 😂
The idea would be to use @Boltz - Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge on the backend, which uses a lower sats/vB…so tx fees would be ~40 sats, and liquid would only be available until a certain threshold would be met, say like 1000 sats.
Yes
I would like to have this option. Many of the custodial lightning wallets, which are the easiest to use, impose limits on how much you can receive per transaction and how much your total balance can be. The low limits they impose make them useful mostly only for fun/games, not for actual commerce purposes. Receiving zaps in liquid could allow for an easier self-custodial solution, and hopefully would not impose the same low transaction and balance restrictions. Please make this happen.
The ability to tip people in liquid if they specify a liquid address in their kind 0 profile similar to what is being done for Garnet would be a big benefit.
"cryptocurrency_addresses": {
"bitcoin": "bc1q02k5tkt5cvkwckt3geq7s4nz7arjk45rassexxp6y0v35u6d3sasssakjj",
"liquid": "Gpz6TrhzbbiqjJspJWp4qZgS1wgXaSqxfs",
"monero": "45Gg4fcAJoSYNSsXvXwPrzg1ji932tqgPVAZQaRAgTWHMQEUnCd23oggHsaXb4Z42EZz2dDBytFt3HeKPNhfccN7NbQTPba"
},
Is garnet the monero nostr jawn?
Garnet is a fork of Amethyst that supports tipping monero. It has a built in wallet, and looks for the monero field in the metadata as denoted above
So they left the Bitcoin tipping in right?
yes you can still do zaps
Yes, that’d be #simplydebased
Lighting zaps are awesome for tipping and small payments. Liquid will be usefull as more business transactions come in For countries like Argentina sending USDT either as taproot on Lighting or over liquid would be awesome. Integration with a debit card on NOSTR...epic
Liquid Network が Liquid Bitcoin を Nostr で投げられる仕組みをアメジの開発者たちと協議してるっぽい。アメジに L-sats で zap できる日がくるかも??? (個人的に Liquid 使えるようになるのは非常にありがたい) nostr:nevent1qqs0wz4m63rrkdlgzl8fkdw5xegsq2tyfzz7vdaknst27wvk3w6f96cpzpmhxue69uhk2tnwdaejumr0dshsygyep9uc8d6vwzqqkxp2h3hkgpr2kuzq06w2hntv74c28zk6nmm465psgqqqqqqseafrp2
https://media.giphy.com/media/EriPNV1whwKac/giphy.gif?cid=790b76113vbfbzsi7x0765ve387cdvm8dfo6adpgars44brq&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g No, thanks. I use bitcoin (LN) for that.
For large transactions? I guess I don't see the use case.
I have a bunch of sats in my AQUA wallet (self custodial). I'm filling up my Alby account, if necessary (custodial). That's my solution anyway. I wouldn't off course not sending 21 sats with a 200 sats fee.
I mean, yeah. But.. the fees on Liquid still make zaps uneconomical, a 160 sat fee on a zap won't work. Aqua for instance is excellent, but the swaps needed to perform LN payments in the context of Zaps rules that out. Even native L-BTC "zaps" on Liquid onchain would still need at least 150+ sats per tx at 0.1 sat/vb min.
Only if you call them squirts
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🫂 nostr:nevent1qqs88vlfp5km8dljuzyfs3n0sdss4ywvzsrekax3m9cfxjhlrz8cupcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsw9n8heusyq0el9f99tveg7r0rhcu9tznatuekxt764m78ymqu36crqsqqqqqplhyqtd
Yesssss 🙌
Yes! 🔥
💯
Would possibly be the biggest innovation on nostr to date.
Check out what we're doing with MiBanco to make the lightning address contain other currencies e.g. Liquid. Lightning is best, but the other methods can be great fallbacks for offline payments etc. https://mibanco.app
Aqua is very nice! I would love to have an ecash fedimint in there too. Imho, would like to be able to hide/disable on chain. My on chain is cold, not on hot mobile wallet. Have option to receive & send any source though (on chain, liquid, lightning, ecash), but funds at rest either liquid or ecash. Small amounts like zaps and pizza go ecash, larger amounts go from liquid. Sorry, but I still want fees generally less than 0.2%. Lightning for the rails between via things like boltz's awesome service. Only for really big amounts or funding/defunding liquid should one need to break out a cold wallet to move on chain utxos.
Any news on this? What implications would this have on privacy features of liquid. I'd imagine that the implementation would be nicer and more user friendly than Garnet's monero implementation, however I would be worried about privacy. While liquid hides transaction amount and asset type, it wouldnt hide the address the funds are sent to and that can be tracked up until you cash out or push to onchain.
