I may not have been clear enough. I mean the Apple users who are bitching. There are obviously many happy ones who don't complain and run to government while still buying the products. 

 Agreed 

 If someone hates Apple why would they still be an Apple user? 

 Ask all the people complaining about their app store, charging ports, etc. 

 The conveniences out way the drawbacks. By a huge margin. 

 That's for you to decide, not the EU. Why should you and Apple be forced to change simply because other people are buying products they don't really want?

They don't for me, so I don't buy their products. It wouldn't make sense for me to buy them and then bitch and run to government to force them to change.

I am far happier with other products. The Apple bitchers and government are the problem to me.
 

 Yeah it's totally non apple users complaining about the Apple app store, the ports they use for charging, etc. lol 

 I never said Apple users absolutely hate Apple. I said they bitch while continuing to buy their products. I see it frequently online. I've seen it in person. 

 My biggest issue isn't even with Apple. It's with the people who buy their shit knowing the deal and then run to government to target Apple. I think Apple should sell whatever it wants. I hate their products, but I would never have government come in and force them to do things differently just because I want a port that is on pretty much every other option (for example). The EU should be told to fuck off and anyone who doesn't like that should stop buying products they don't really want. We see it with Right to Repair too. 

 I switched from Android to Apple a while back but have been kind of underwhelmed since then. And then given their App Store policies I have considered going back to Android. But I dunno. 

 @GrapheneOS give it a shot, you won’t be disappointed 

 He will be. I was, in the beginning. 

It's uglier and has bad onboarding UX. 

Now I love it and wouldn't go back.  

 I used GrapheneOS before most people even knew what it was. I liked it, but it wasn't very friendly with a lot of apps back then (by design, so not a knock). CalyxOS, in my long experience, has been far easier for most people to settle on since it is a little looser. Again, since I last used GrapheneOS. Haven't used it for awhile at this point. Will put it on my Dev device though. 

 I was modding Android on some of the first in existence. It's easier than ever. Times were ROUGH back then for anyone who wanted anything close to tech freedom. Same with Gnu/Linux. It's pretty damn easy now. 

 True that! 

 Yeah the policies suck. Not gonna defend Apple on that front - don’t like it either. I guess I’m an industrial design + nice pixels maxi 😆 

 That's is why I like Apple. The background processes, telemetry, and locked down app installations are the deal breakers. 

 Honestly, I have many complaints about Google's Android too. It took using CalyxOS to realize how bloated Google's version actually is. So much of the device is dedicated to spyware bullshit.

GrapheneOS is probably too tight for many people. CalyxOS offers a good mix if you just want a cleaner version of Android. It's the FOSS stuff without all the Google crap. Of course, you can install the FOSS implementation of Play Services at setup and install those parts that you want if you absolutely want some Google apps or apps that require play services for whatever reason. 

 Have you used Graphene recently? I see this opinion from people who are only familiar with older versions.  

 well S24 Ultra just came out.  the teardowns look solid.  one of the best built and most repairable phones i have seen. 

 Welcome sis. 

 Welcome to Android that is. 

 Go to @heliummobile for free, and enjoy both.  Helium gives me the ability to separate personal from work device,  all for free if you use your $MOBILE rewards to pre-pay your service!  

 I used to like them. The last Mac I bought you needed to remove every component just to replace the memory. The previous one I bought had one screw to remove. After that they started soldering and using more dongles for everything.

Don't need a desktop to be super thin and quiet would rather have it easier to upgrade and repair! 

 True, sucks that they are doing this. 

 I am here. I run both iOS and Android. I hate Apple.  

 You are if you buy something you don't really want because you think there aren't alternatives and then run to government to have them force Apple to change their products.

I was talking about software respecting users anyway. I don't even know you and never mentioned you. 

 So good
🍎 

 Is it hard to set up for a non technical person? 

 No, not at all

Plenty of great setup videos on YT 

 So they can have theme wars
What can you do about this?