Oddbean new post about login | logout nostr:nprofile1qqsx8zd7vjg70d5na8ek3m8g3lx3ghc8cp5d9sdm4epy0wd4aape6vspz4mhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejqzyrhwden5te0dehhxarj9emkjmn9qyxhwumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmvycz39a how'd you like to see nostr's development, developer conversations etc all searchable and cut up, hyper focused and navagable? Even if you're not a developer, it still makes sense to learn. 1:57:20 https://fountain.fm/episode/vxd7ojlUhTZTY3RG1Za4
Yeah, I think I see where you guys are going. Not every detail, more of a general picture, but this is exciting.
The Library (nostr) is built. Now come the Librarians. nostr:note16d2a67k5shkryel09xpvl03w8rdfw2rx9m67wpaq4p0xykcyg2ss66ygdf
There is so much untapped potential. Library Sciences would have a field day.
It'd have to be the younger librarians but yeah. There is no escaping this conclusion. Also: https://primal.net/e/note1lqp79f4eymzayqpgqtk2aus0k4z0ks3mqlh4tmda2yk65u7x55useqfkfl
Yeah, we already thought of stuff like that. We're calling the project TheFourthEstate (a custom news client) and we set up an empty repo and reserved a domain for it, but we need to get Aedile, Alexandria, and GitRepublic done first. Someone else is welcome to beat us to the punch. 👍🏼
Possible to scrape the time stamps (and subsequent "Updates") from news stories and used to layout a timeline of how a news story changes over time, over multiple news outlets in a graphical representation that retains the links to each individual story and navigating to that story by clicking?
You could create a hash of the original content periodically and create a new version of the event, if the hash changed.
Long-form events already have a different event id when they get “replaced” (edited). Should be as easy as making sure the relay keeps all copies and doing a git diff on the content.
That can add up to a lot of different events, tho. Would probably be something good for a dedicated Layer2 version history relay, rather than a general function of relays.
The more I the I think about storage and referencing back to previous edits I wonder if editable nostr events should require the previous event id as part of the metadata. This is akin to how git works and is also similar to the way SSB (which nostr is based on) chains events together. Forks in SSB were always problematic because the user timeline relied on having a single chain of events, but there is still no reason we can’t use this simple mechanism to track a chain of events for version history of editable nostr events. Then there would be a protocol native method to establish the order of versions, which would make everything you’re trying to do easier (I think)
Library Sciences _will_ have a field day. That's us. We're inventing Nostr Library Sciences. 😂🤷♀️
Tagged classification A La Library of Congress Classification System? I think I just hurt my brain thinking of the work requirements for something like this because this is going straight to a Hari Seldonesque style Encyclopedia Galactica. https://m.primal.net/JUqM.png
Everyone will have their conventions, but interoperability can help both niche and general solutions.
Sort of like an "embedded meta-classification"? I honestly need to stop talking but the ramifications here are kind of startling and I can't just not say even stuff that may be patently the wrong direction. But my heart's in the right place.
https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ai/what-are-embeddings/
Thank you for this. Did you listen to Episode 924 "Mentats Incoming"? If so, how far off the mark was I? It'd be helpful to know.
Its not explicitly in that direction, but i like it! 😂 but it really does make you think. Websockets are actually great for live updates, so what does that limit look like?
Thank you. I think I am thinking of things from more of a "Limited Set of Participants" while you guys are going for the whole enchilada. What I do see are major overlaps in applications of the same thing. I really want to set up a time where you and @Laeserin can jump into a HiveTalk with me, discuss where you are going, and release the audio as an episode on Bitcoin And.
Yes! We should find a day that works.
Start with our respective time zones? I am in UTC -7 (Pacific Daylight Time - US).
Oh wair! Coracle groups can help us schedule right? we can just mark some openings
I just went to the group calendar, set up a test time but that entry only shows up (for me) in Coracles "main" calendar and not in the Group Calendar. @hodlbod, am I doing something wrong?
Which group is this? Is it open or closed? It sounds like it could be a bug where the event wasn't published to the group calendar.
Project Alexandria. It is a closed group. https://coracle.social/groups/naddr1qvzqqqytlgpzqx6us97r5cnyazpt4e8sx5m62gw0qush9wn43esmswt7gwlk876xqqgrwd3k8qmnjvfnxqcr2wf5xucnxg5437g/notes
Hmm looks like I screwed up. I see the event: nostr:nevent1qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyw8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtngd9nksmrfva58getj9e3k7mf0qyv8wumn8ghj7mn0wdj8y6tkv5hxzurs9aex2mrp0yq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwd4hhxarj9ec82c30qyfhwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnxxaazu6t09uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0d4hhxarj9ecxjmnt9uq3xamnwvaz7tmsw4e8qmr9wpskwtn9wvhsz9nhwden5te0wp6hyurvv4ex2mrp0yhxxmmd9uqzqx3wxvyed0ndq7y0vcuknch84ltvh222lns26zyeuztvh3mnlut97wyd39 but it doesn't have the group's address tagged, and it was published un-encrypted. I'll see what I can see. You're sure you created it via the group calendar?
Yes sir. I am positive.
Would you mind doing it again and recording the screen while you do?
Will do. Give me about 30 minutes or so. Gotta get the show out.
As promised. https://m.primal.net/JVbZ.mp4
aHA, I see the problem. I was testing the + Event button at the top, but forgot you can click on a tile, and apparently I'm not passing the group ID through there. Thanks!
Any time. Glad to help.
- label as complex or as simple as you'd like. Use any naming convention - if that fails, use an embedding, trained on the text you care about. - embedding could help create labels labels and embeddings help both with navagibility. labels ask: what does the author or others think is most related? embeddings ask: what other ideas are close to here? Just put everything in a pile with coordinates and find things that are close together.
Like books that are in the same section of a library or book store. We're create spatial navigability of documents, in the digital realm. You don't have to know precisely what you're looking for. You can browse and meander around.
And you don't even need to read the full book - find the content that stands out and then you see how it fits with the rest of the book
Yes, you can find a related part by comparing with other parts and then click through to the whole. That's more efficient than trying to compare two wholes.
indeed/ legal libraries etc. so many poss.
Yeah, case law searches. International and cross-language.
awesome concept
"Show me all sections where 'Ghosts' in Shakespeare's collected works are mentioned and cross reference those with any mention of 'Ghosts' in his contemporaries collected works that also mention the word 'blood'." Same type of request made about molecular motors like Kinesin in, oh IDK, all published molecular biology papers published since 1980 could be made. That type of granularity would cause explosions in academic/private R&D thought.
And not only that, but its not just one specific kind. You can attach embeddings and labels to not just wiki or note styled content, but any others. Then, once you have a nice collection of ideas, you can group them together in a kind 30040. Any related ideas to written papers or books that has been written on nostr? what about for nostr development jtself?
Sounds like the embeddings themselves carry the seeds of any future classification system anyone could want and sprout depending on what they want without actually asking for a 'legacy' classification system. It's dynamic, not static. How far off am I?
🎯 personalized classification systems competing generalized classification systems niche classification systems Put all the sources, broken down into parts, on Nostr and then just start classifying everything. Then people can choose the classification that they want to use, to navigate the way they want to navigate. decentralized classification organic association patterns
This work is nothing new, its being done to analyze existing systems, to maximize money and for themselves. We need it on nostr - so anyone can navjgate and learn the most high signal ideas put out by anyone. The system itself is living, evolving with specifications and people converse and argue about changes to the spec here anyway. Rather than navigate it by thread or anything hard coded just meander and find what is most meaningful. Nothing is against hard coded links, but who knows what connections are there even if they aren't explicitly connected.
Dewey, Peirce, and the rest of the Pragmatists might roll over in their grave. Honestly, I think they meant well with classification systems but I think those systems have held human thought back for far longer than was good. There was no way for "Emergent Classification" to exist under the Dewey Decimal or Library of Congress Classification systems. Hell, I see this being applied to things like lichen and fungus classification because those guys have been scratching their heads for well over a century trying to figure out what's related to what.
Yup. This concept stems originally from biology journal analysis.
I know because I was there. I am THAT OLD fr. 😂
Did my undergrad in cell and molecular biology. Lots of journal reading here.
THAT EXPLAINS IT. 😂 We were amazed that anyone else understood anything we were saying because until now, it's been us talking excitedly amongst ourselves in public, while everyone is like https://c.tenor.com/90dFwxuNWpMAAAAC/tenor.gif
I tested a software project decades ago, that allowed you to navigate scientific journals using word bubbles.
Any efficacy at all?
Yes, it was actually really cool. You could type in the name of a protein molecule, for instance and see a cluster of articles containing that name, with articles closer to the center having the most references and the bubble size indicating how often it contained that word. Or you could type in nothing and just brows around the entire collection, by clicking on words. You didn't have to even know what you were looking for, when you "entered the library". You could just look around and see if anything was interesting. But I left the company and I thought the idea had been abandoned. I only saw visual data navigation after that with Kibana and Graphene, but the visualisation wasn't as emersive. And then I saw some stuff on graphical databases. And then Liminal showed up here and was like, listen yo, I got this idea from biology... Turns out, the idea is still alive and it's more advanced now. And we're not only going to use it for biology. 😁
Historical data would be another fascinating thing. like, I was listening to a podcast, yesterday, from a German scientist who moves to DC and analyzed movements in interest rates and the White House visitors book. There's a correlation and he found the causation: Fed Chairman being ordered to appear in the Presidents' office.
Yes, we were already working on stuff like this in the 90s. But Nostr plebicizes it and actually humanizes it, again, as one Nostrich in Helsinki or Nairobi with a keen interest in Topic XYZ can do these categorizations about whatever obscure topic they are interested in. That's why we're so excited. We want _everyone_ to be able to be a librarian. Everyone gets to assemble and categorize their own library or choose to use Npubbunchofnumbers' library.
That's why I now refuse to perform categorizations for other people. I am giving everyone the means to categorize things for themselves. Anytime you run into something that looks like a Nostr spec, you can just add a "Nostr spec" label to it and move on with your life. Anyone who searches the labels for "Nostr spec" will see everything you tagged. Or you could use the labels from yourself and your WoT to auto-update a Nostr-based register of Nostr specs. In fact, let me go build that. 😂
💯 Another thing we're making possible is making the source data itself more granular, by breaking it into pieces and stringing the pieces back together in order. Same as was done with DNA in the human genome project. Split it up, create an index of the parts, analyze and label each part in parallel, string it back together according to the index. Label the index according to the labels of the parts. That's called "high throughput analysis". DNA and events are both just character sets. 🤷♀️
We're going to have structured UUIDs for books, in addition to a field for ISBNs, but that depth of analysis is pointless, when you also have the source in the same database because you can have AI analyze the text and add a label event telling _you_ what it is.
And a paper publication can't even compete - because you can apply the same analysis to nostr and write about it there. If your goal is actually helping people, and helping them learn, what is the purpose of releasing to something that pales in compared to distribution and idea remixing than here?
Ook
