Oddbean new post about login | logout i read a lot of monero here atm, here's my little story: sold 10 btc two days ago, had to go through a kyc hell (as the non-kyc market is dead/never worked for bigger amounts) ... bitcoin has become part of the surveillance state, sad but true
@GHOST and I were just talking about this yesterday. Thank you for sharing your story.
Yes, it seams every btc on/off ramp is getting owned by govs. I feel that freedom money is no more. Monero looking sexier by the day...
So you’re saying there are more and/or better no KYC shitcoin to dollar on-ramps? I think you guys are all blowing hot air. The on-ramp issue has always been legal restrictions. Monero doesn’t solve this. Quit being trolls.
I think you missed the point of the conversation. Bitcoin is the absolute best way to truly own property and protect against the devaluation of currencies. But the cypherpunk dream of private money is gone. There are no more and will never be more Silk Roads. Bitcoin has no privacy on the base chain, the opposite in fact, it’s a public ledger. Now that bitcoin is no longer in its infancy governments and agencies track every wallet and transaction and control the on and off ramps. If you own bitcoin and believe that it will continue to grow in value then you better be prepared for that future. Keep every record and receipt because they will come for you eventually and they will get their cut so be ready. A non KYC stash will be radioactive. You might be ok with a small amount but a lot and you might as well be a drug cartel stuck with millions that you have to do something with. Avoid that. Keep records. Pay your taxes. If you want privacy then use something that is private like monero.
Okay, but if you’re using Monero, you’re still either using fiat on-ramps (just like Bitcoin) or you’re doing P2P. If you keep your Monero or Bitcoin segregated P2P, it’s essentially the same. Big brother is still tracking almost all you do, where you go etc. unless you are *highly* sophisticated. If you’re that sophisticated, you can learn to Coinjoin, use lighting etc. Average people don’t sleep good at night being criminals no matter what coin they’re using. Monero is a false sense of security. They’ll come for the Monero people too and catch most of them. Our best bet is to hold something that can keep us out of the poorhouse while the dollar denominated fiat ship goes down. If it gets bad, who cares if crap is KYC’d? Or maybe governments adopt the best money out there and we immigrate to places that value our economic value and allow us some freedoms. We can dream of the perfectly sound lightsaber currency but that doesn’t exist. I’m just tired of this shilling of an inferior technology, confusing new people and scaring them away from Bitcoin because it’s not perfect.
I am not scaring anyone away from bitcoin. I am a laser eyed maxi. But Bitcoin is not private, that is a factual statement.
It should never be about scaring people away. This isn"'t a cult, it is a piece of software.
Oh man, you dumped bitcoin and bought shitcoin ? 🙉
i need it for holidays and renewing things at the house 🤙
Makes sense. Just don’t dump it for the crap shitcoin that some clowns trying to shill on here!
Imagine going on a 10btc holiday. Fucking baller. 🥵
Shitcoin? Come on .. How to get BTC privacy? Impossible without Samourai! So use BTC for cold storage and Monero for payments, whats ur problem with privacy? #freeSamourai
You can have privacy on bitcoin if you know the proper tools and how to use them.
We are all ears, tell us how to do privacy on Bitcoin better than Monero
Buy P2P, joinmarket, swaps into liquid and then into lightning and then out of lightning
More complex, multi-step with points of failure where privacy could be compromised. Monero is stronger and easier.
Ok, ok shitcoiner Go sell your crap to someone else
Oh yes the classic refutal.
Why BTC maxis are so stupid? "Shitcoiner" Its only a way to protect ur privacy! Its not "holding monero to the moon", its btc for store of value and payments with monero, so whats the real problem? I dont like the new btc maxis with " plssss etfs buy more! Plsss trump chill btc everywhere! Pls let me be rich" Thats realy stupid and the perfect transformation from a btc maxi to a new world fiat maxi Gratulation
privacy > be rich few understand this
you literally just said that using a coinjoin service that's been unwound (JM is NOT a zerolink implementation) and swapping between THREE different networks is a viable solution to privacy. get a grip.
You dumb!
I like those short replies that tell us much more about you than they tell us about the tools we are talking about. The inner bargaining already started. You are okay the way you are. You are okay even if you change your mind. You but really all Bitcoiners are okay if they loosen their stance on maximalism in the name of freedom and privacy. I give you two months until you will change your stance on Monero. Have seen it before. You are unique. But you are not special.
You mean joinmarket with fcking high maker fees? Good joke
cope. i don’t like monero either, but you’re retarded if you think you can move 10 BTC around like this.
That’s you retarded ! In Ukraine you can trade P2P even much more hire amounts! You request that $ and within a few days deal is done ! It’s just here in the U.S. or in some parts of Europe P2P isn’t common
You did the meme https://image.nostr.build/9a93e3cf766e56bb4cede32215a75f002206cff783b1864e238b841a72a3c0b6.png
Haha. Good one. Right. However this meme (as well as our beloved bitcoin memes) do leave the tradeoffs of decisions done as meme suggests aside. 🤝 h/t nostr:nprofile1qqsp2alytxwazryxxjv0u0pqhkp247hc9xjetn5rch8c4s6xx5cmpxcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qg5waen5te0d3hkxctvdphhxap6xsurvwf0ud73dg
This is just wrong. Join market can be demixed, so can wasabi and lightning's privacy is a joke
You mean the guys who doxxed everyone's txns?
Wouldn’t selling that much Monero ona centralized exchange also result in KYC hell? Sounds like the problem is with the P2P exchanges lacking liquidity.
Offloading monero or any other shitcoin is many times more difficult than Bitcoin. I’ve heard it’s better to go otc for 10 btc
Or even better yet, find someone who accepts BTC as payment. Assuming you are buying something that is like $100k+, which I assume is what you’re doing if you need to sell 10 BTC quickly, it might be less headache to find an acceptor of BTC.
I'd give up my left nut for one... Tf you mean 10btc? I don't have 10 nuts to give up!
let me guess coinbase.com right?
Never in my life. The most I did there was there earn program to "learn about shitcoins" then convert it all to bitcoin. 🤣
Liquidity issue. Has nothing to do with the fundamentals of either network or asset. 10 BTC is more than most houses, and it would take you 6% plus 90 days minimum to move a house. And you’re definitely not getting 600k cash for monero within a day, if ever. You could’ve done it non-KYC if you had more time or found some big OTC plays (likely outside of US jurisdiction), but the issue of moving that amount of money outside of traditional regulations would not be improved by monero.
Fair point.
It’s more than fair. I can’t believe the amount of people who think exiting the centralized surveillance dollar economy into Bitcoin, and then going back to re-enter it would magically make it any different. And no, monero doesn’t fix that 🤦♂️
Every tool has it's function. Limiting the tool set will only diminish the possible outcomes.
I’m not limiting the toolset, feel free to use monero. I’m just explaining why advocating for it under the given circumstances is a silly misunderstanding of the fundamental issue.
Sure, understood. Thank you for the clarification.
TEN 😯😯
Wait is this a joke. I don't know anymore lol
i don't like to put a number out there, but i felt it makes more sense like this
No no, you are valid lolol🫂. I just can't imagine lol. 😎
Do you have e an opinion on monero? I actually don't. Don't know enough to have an opinion tbh.
no, i just know that darkweb likes it more than btc ... which in a way says a lot about the privacy aspect
I'm also mostly just curious who may turn up to nostr and build on nostr now there's this monero Amethyst fork ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ could be interesting. We shall see:)
Garnet? It locks your balance for like an hour after every zap atm though.
Yeah, I dont know. I'll probably never even use it. Just interested in how nostr grows, or could potentially grow from things like this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I honestly had no idea ralf was ballin' like this. dude was like "I needed some money for the holidays so I just cashed out like $640,000 worth of corn, nbd"
Was it because you tried to sell non-kyc btc on a kyc exchange? Would it have been easier if it were kyc btc in the first place? 🤔
no, i sent them (i had to sent them) docs from 2016 showing that i was buying them, that the coins were legal ... like i said: it was kyc hell
👀 nostr:nprofile1qqsr6v0heyglg4ljmsw7hhh383f380p6vzhjemv9fk5jakd5vesrqeqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqguwaehxw309ahx7um5wghx6at5d9h8jampd3kx2apwvdhk6qg5waehxw309aex2mrp0yhxgctdw4eju6t0f9s4jj boosted this. Thank you for raising attention, fren. nostr:nevent1qqs9uneuudgrppe7xjkmf4qu659w460kp3460f587lf0canz6mlg0zgzyq7nra7fz8690ukurh4aaufu2vfmcwnq4ukwmp2d4yhdndrxvqcxgqcyqqqqqps67ppg9
A) you had 10 mf bitcoins??? B) you sold them????? 😭😭😭
smells like bovine feces
don't trust men which are bold in the front, but have a ponytail to compensate it ... they lost it somewhere in their 20s
We’ve seen how much you’ve zapped… (Starts growing ponytail).
we'll see how you think in another 20 years whippersnapper
than i'm dead, i guess ... not living the most healthy life and at 47 you need to be realistic when it comes to your future ... anyway, i know you know it, you are bold with a ponytail, life is suffering one way or the other
Yup. Decentralized exchange like Haveno is the super private way. It's better than Bisq. Not sure how quickly you needed to sell though. https://haveno.exchange/faq/#how-can-i-exchange-monero-for-fiat-without-involving-banks https://haveno-reto.com/
Because converting monereo into hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank would be easier... 🙄 stfu Why do shitcoin pumpers always resort to such obvious BS? nostr:nevent1qqs2jj3q5nc5pfcvvqc6gxy4ndwt6fdeml3tvh54k2l98tkqva558nqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsv388ndhh29pk6jyk5z30hzsx8xj2awl3vlm0mv5s43k48cacl97qrqsqqqqqpvlqecv
Where you can exchange 10 BTC worth of Monero to fiat without KYC as fast? 😳
it's not about monero, it is about my experience with selling btc
Then why do you mention Monero?
https://m.primal.net/JeKk.gif
then try it yourself
Good idea and thank you for staying in the loop nostr:nprofile1qqsv388ndhh29pk6jyk5z30hzsx8xj2awl3vlm0mv5s43k48cacl97qprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqyv8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehw6r9wfjjucm0d5q32amnwvaz7tmgd9ehgtnwdaehgu3wd3skueqd48yrc, no matter of the heated topic you raised. PV 🫂
BTC is "CBDC 2.0". Transparent blockchain, absolute zero privacy
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This isn't because Bitcoin is captured, it's because the economy is captured. You only need fiat because the economy is being gated by fiat.
It is because BTC is transparent and not fungible.
Transparency is critical to the adoption of Bitcoin.
Transparency is stupid when you can have anonymity.
That's a 12 year old child's level of analysis.
Please, explain
I agree with you, but reliable transactional privacy is critical to not enslaving ourselves.
Preventing governments from corruption is also critical. This is why bitcoin has a anonymity set delta that favours the bottom of the pyramid.
I thought figuring out how to spend btc without KYC hell is most peoples step 2 in their learning process?
Tell us how to sell 700k worth of BTC without Kyc?
Using Bisq?
Sounds like a solid advice, nostr:nprofile1qqsym07t03wahqjfl8r7hrppuqvlpralklk9mm25pzmpgkgtawx3d9gppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qguwaehxw309ahx7um5wgkhqatz9eek2mtfwdhkctnyv4mz7eq5pfr. PV 🫂 Can someone posting from a device also running nostr:nprofile1qqsxll5nhdedftrc3lvtutdd7ka55tc55vcd2v9su69awv7fw3xxvxgpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejz7a4wfd6 please provide some quick orderbook screenshots for usd/btc, eur/btc and gbp/btc pairs on nostr:nprofile1qqsxll5nhdedftrc3lvtutdd7ka55tc55vcd2v9su69awv7fw3xxvxgpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejz7a4wfd6? This would provide some meaningful context to this topic. h/t nostr:nprofile1qqsxll5nhdedftrc3lvtutdd7ka55tc55vcd2v9su69awv7fw3xxvxgpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejz7a4wfd6
that volume is unrealistic imo if you wanna sell it for fiat
That amount is a rich man's game for sure.
❓ What's the most important meme for understanding bitcoin? #asknostr Might be the perfect one to reply to you, nostr:nprofile1qqs0ljj5upu0mxyy5azawr4szkwqhz5705ur5jgx5ayyhqlt7cgpm4gprdmhxue69uhkx6rjd9ehgurfd3kzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6qgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcqguwaehxw309ahx7um5wghxy6t5vdhkjmn9wgh8xmmrd9skchpjvxc 🫂
Selling 10 bitcoin is super easy, maybe you are confused: you encountered the hell of buying 10-bitcoin-amount of fiat credit/assets.
Why tf would you sell 10 Bitcoin? Damn
Surveillance has got nothing to do with Bitcoin. It's everything outside the Bitcoin network that can take part in this.
Sure, a fully transparent ledger with no privacy has nothing to do with surveillance.
It's these kinds of idiotic responses they continually try to convince people with that let's me know Bitcoin has failed. If they are unwilling to admit the complete lack of privacy enables surveillance then it can't succeed. If they can't admit Bitcoin 6 months ago with Samourai is very different than our present situation of completely cucked Bitcoin with no functioning privacy solution, and the laughable band-aid of stealth payments, then they have already lost.
Sure, but selling anything for fiat is going to be a dice roll into the apparatus of the surveillance state. That’s just reality.
Cash is zero surveillance, zero KYC.
I would imagine you have to sell BTC off in smaller chunks if you want non-KYC.
Interesting discussions are going on in this note, worth giving it a glimpse at least (NOT ironic/sarcastic): nostr:nevent1qqs2jj3q5nc5pfcvvqc6gxy4ndwt6fdeml3tvh54k2l98tkqva558nqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsygxgnnekmm4zsmdfzt2pghm3grrnf9wh0ck0ahak2g2cm2nuwu0jlqpsgqqqqqqsz5rasx h/t nostr:nprofile1qqsv388ndhh29pk6jyk5z30hzsx8xj2awl3vlm0mv5s43k48cacl97qprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqyv8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehw6r9wfjjucm0d5q32amnwvaz7tmgd9ehgtnwdaehgu3wd3skueqd48yrc
Especially when it depends on industrial mining whose incentives align perfectly with banker's capitalism.
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i read a lot of fiat here atm, here's my little story: sold 10 fiat dollars two days ago, had to go through a kyc hell (as the non-kyc market is dead/never worked for bigger amounts) ... in the end i had to exchange the fiat for some ice coolers filled with kidneys, and then take that to sell to a dealer who could get me the cash in a duffel bag. Fiat has become part of the barter state, sad but true nostr:nevent1qqs2jj3q5nc5pfcvvqc6gxy4ndwt6fdeml3tvh54k2l98tkqva558nqpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgsv388ndhh29pk6jyk5z30hzsx8xj2awl3vlm0mv5s43k48cacl97qrqsqqqqqpxg6fzc nostr:nevent1qqsysdjhgc4vcckh4h03m9e6j93tphruvmvh3zzw7h6zkgdq2f6ctrspz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygppksv3qtdgls96jpyy4mynf064k74u7a0wmvu3yn5dwhjfraq6tcpsgqqqqqqsfff729 nostr:nevent1qqsysdjhgc4vcckh4h03m9e6j93tphruvmvh3zzw7h6zkgdq2f6ctrspz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygppksv3qtdgls96jpyy4mynf064k74u7a0wmvu3yn5dwhjfraq6tcpsgqqqqqqsfff729
