Oddbean new post about login | logout One of the things Nostr needs (@Svetski and @fiatjaf) are right about this) is better #marketing. It's going to take months or years of repeating the message over and over, to drill it far enough into people's heads, that they turn to us in an emergency (when user inertia lifts). I try, but I have little reach outside of Nostr because I'm more of a quality assurance specialist and we also don't have enough of those. I can't do both, for the entire protocol. Do we have any sales and marketing reps in here?
marketing 🫡
What does the gray square signify?
see a grey square instead of emoji? https://m.primal.net/Kadc.jpg
Ah, so you're a marketer. Interesting. Have you given any thought to how we can better market Nostr? My main strategy, so far, was working to increase the amount of normie/diverse-targeted content being posted; to make it more welcoming. Seems to have worked. Totally different feed, to when I arrived, even if we all still complain. Discovery is still hard, but seems to be getting more emphasis. Any other ideas?
I was thinking of something focused on communities. Like "Find your Tribe." or something like that. But also references to the main relays. "Read global, chat local". I don't know. 😂 Whatever. I'm just a retired booth bunny.
What about "The new Internet is on your phone." or something really simple like "Read what you want. Say what you want." "Speak your truth.". Or "Just note it."
"Read what you like. Say what you want." sounds nice. Nice rhythm.
Let's see, if anyone likes that one. nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzphtxf40yq9jr82xdd8cqtts5szqyx5tcndvaukhsvfmduetr85ceqydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpr3mhxue69uhhg6r9vd5hgctyv4kzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcqyr9ls08eve4e5gpa8jc03hv8w7majyt5cwk8u0ywcrrfhhfa8hjcvutwstr
generally, i’m into@rabble's belief that nostr can transform from a “bitcoin meetup” into sth like copenhagen’s christiania district. people from various professions, with diff passions, but all sharing common values (and here comes the full nostr ideology side). i think that’s a key part of nostr’s identity, and why we, as strangers, have so many topics to talk about.
we had some discussion on this with @Svetski and my opinion circles around "being in charge". i don't ask for permissions. i'm not a product here. i own the mute btn. i choose feeds, apps, ppl. it’s a fuckin powerful thing when you consider today’s internet, and probably the broader promise that will attract normies
I agree. Mentioned something in that vein, in the other thread. nostr:note10hwjnzy9kpr99pav8kgavj7v2kalmupne3qslzf5q9gpyhz49yqqrwzhrh nostr:note1z3nzpamygnfgrhsddumdeqsmc8etfruev730rszj53gsvrp8z2uqc6uku5
nostr doesn't need marketing. If you think it does, you need patience. The protocol isn't going anywhere. People thought Bitcoin needed marketing too.
We are the #marketing, we are the #plebchain!
It did. Bitcoin had intensive marketing.
Some of the marketing I was intrigued by was "DCA and chill" and "Stack sats. Stay humble." and the whole "Honeybadger don't care." Meme. Those were good and had a future-oriented, positive focus. Also choosing orange as a color has me associating anything 🍊 with Bitcoin.
Bitcoin marketed itself with NGU.
And then people sold when Number Went Down. 😂 Nostr isn't money. You can't just get an npub and then sit on it for 10 years and then exchange it for a private jet. You need to have some reason for moving, that isn't merely a Get Rich scheme.
Bitcoin isn't a scheme either and all those people that sold along the way are kicking them selves now wondering if it's too late. You can get an npub, sit in it for ten years and come back and reclaim your identity. That's more valuable than people are aware of. Just how Bitcoin is more valuable than people are aware of
These kind of responses are so tone deaf it’s not funny. - Zero concept of how networks actually work and grow. - No idea about network or anti-network effects. - Ignores the fact that bitcoin had intensive marketing from the beginning, - AND blind to the fact that bitcoin is a financial network, with a direct financial incentive to participate (something Nostr doesn’t have).
Just forgot about zaps huh?
Zaps are just a substitute for likes. They’re largely meaningless. And they are FAAAAR from an economic model
Zaps are not a substitute for likes. Bitcoin is the economic model, your time, labor, and energy. Provide value, get value. Ask #tunestr of they're meaningless and far from an economic model. It's so early and it's already demonstrably working.
I used to think that too. But look at the behaviour. People pass around “numbers on a screen” which don’t really mean much. There’s no significant net bitcoin entering. It’s mainly the same amount of bitcoin just switching hands amongst the same people. So what’s happening, if we’re being objective, is that people are treating zaps more and more like likes or other reactions. We need to think about this further. It’s far from an economic model like mining
I think monetizing social media is not the right way. The ones who are getting paid for their opinions tend to stick to them to continue getting paid and can't express their true opinions which in return damage their followers. If I'm following you it is because I value your opinions and I would like to know that it is your true opinion without any biases like having profit. When profit involved things get messy. As we all know from history the ones telling the truth are the ones most regarded.
Yeh. Zaps create in some ways a perverted incentive to say what you think you want people to hear. Not what’s actually valuable. A lot we’re not understanding here
I built a relay, so I kind understand the concept of networks...
No you understand the technical component. Not how network effects actually work
I understand network effects man. Why Meta, Apple, Google, Microsoft have the upper hand. The network effect is massive to overcome. My argument is nostr does not need marketing to overcome them. All it needs is time. Same as BTC. The network effect of the dollar is the absolute biggest one on the planet. Just like nostr, Bitcoin will not overcome it's network effect for potentially decades.
Yup. Nostr and Bitcoin are singularities with large pull, because on open networks your competition is helping you grow rather than stealing energy from you like a zerosum system. Nostr and Bitcoin are positive sum
Bitcoin has the luxury of time far more than Nostr does. Why? Because fiat money is actively collapsing. The need for bitcoin is stronger, and while it’s a more significant change (money is the base language) it’s got time on its side. Nostr on the hand, if it doesn’t achieve some sort of escape velocity in the next 2-5yrs, is going to be relegated to the fringe because centralised providers are “good enough” for most people, and/or other networks will emerge (see the work TBD is doing for DIDs, and there’s much more). The mistake is to think their paths are equivalent. They’re not. Bitcoin has a century to win. Nostr…a decade or two. Or somewhere thereabouts.
Let me ask you this. If Bitcoin had no marketing at all, would it have failed? The answer is no. You are free to disagree.
Yes it would’ve, because nobody would’ve know about it. Had Silk Road and Wikileaks not existed, or Roger Ver, Voorhees or Antonopolous to evangelise in the early days - bitcoin would’ve disappeared. The very fact that businesses sprouted up, people discussed it, and entire communities of evangelists emerged is what got bitcoin the attention it needed to develop economic mass. There’s no way around effective marketing and messaging.
Those tools existed because there was an organic demand. Silk road didn't market Bitcoin. Bitcoin fulfilled a market need. The people you listed were all altruistic and not really marketing. More like deciples. Too bad some of them fell off the deep end.
I was going to buy your book through geyser btw. I probably still will. I found geyser through nostr. Ya know ... Network effects and all... Marketing can help. I'm not "against" marketing nostr. I simply argue it will not be the differentiating factor in nostrs success.
I appreciate the comment about the book. And I promise it will be the best Sats you’ve ever spent. I’m also glad you’re not against marketing. But my position is that, for every 10,000 we’ll build software products, only a couple really achieve scale - and that’s due to (in some cases luck, but) superior go to market. Cold card is case in point. It’s far superior to Ledger. But ledger outsells it 500:1 Now..this is fine for a general product like that. But network live and die by the density. It’s very easy to lose network density and to get anti-network effects if messaging and go to market unclear. We can have the best product/protocol, but if people don’t know where it “lives” in their minds, it’s all for naught. I recommend Andrew Chen’s work on Network effects btw. His book “the cold start problem” is absolutely fantastic
I’m not certain about the classical marketing for nostr 🤔 I would spend all energy and money on people creating new content , bringing new people , then realizing they are on a new kind of social world 👀🔥🔥 I just did a classical pictures report on #surfinbitcoin event in France on #nostr exclusive . It’s nothing but I believe in content you won’t find anywhere else. Best marketing imho 🤗
For the record, I'm only here because some of my Bitcoin Twitter bros repeatedly asked me to move. Must have mentioned it 20 times, together. That's how often I had to hear it, to have it "mentally ready" as a solution, when I got blocked AGAIN.
One of the things a good marketer can do is help structure a viral campaign or collect good materials or talking points for dissemination. The nostr.com website could be much more, than it currently is, for instance, and we could add the link to our profiles in other places, to get people to click on it and to help with name recognition. And we could work on search engine optimization (including making sure that it's our stuff being served up by their AI), and get some people editing relevant Wikipedia entries. Etc.
Great wiki pages are greatly underrated. That's where I'd point nostr.com . A page that aggregates wiki entries, other types of content about Nostr (stories, articles, posts, videos, music, ...), communities, etc... Interactive and adapted to the reader. ( not a static website with a Tailwind CSS template that has zero Nostr functionality🤦 ) That said, those kind of pages or any other kind of Nostr explanation anywhere else are nothing compared to people shilling their niche communities 24/7. For which Nostr will have better and better tools (Stories, Invites, Free music and movies, ... )
nostr:nevent1qqsvqur2f48pk96zgnqw552uy3qvhvumlu5mfjee9zj0cdcjlfx6ecczypulqrfltgv7eqrp3872kq7phe8ls8gcae8k20ygltzplcp4wr6ryqcyqqqzvpcyl6x74 What do you mean with Nostr webpages nostr:nprofile1qqsd6ejdteqpvse63ntf7qz6u9yqspp4z7ymt8094urzwm0x2ceaxxgprdmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdakj7qguwaehxw309a6xsetrd96xzer9dshxummnw3erztnrdakj7qgnwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxtccyjmzy ? The events under the hood of npub.pro ?
🙋🏻♀️ marketing pro here. Heavy on B2B tech startup SaaS social media copy, still close enough 🎯 to what nostr needs (have done B2C too)
@Svetski are you going to setup a community, or something? If so, can we both be invited?
What problem are we solving here? No one agrees on this. Being a Twitter alt doesn’t solve a problem, there are plenty of those. Certain people ( @jack) think we should downplay the censorship/ freedom angle. Correct me if I’m wrong, going off memory here. I am continually told “it doesn’t work well,” by those who are on here, interested, and who have npubs (and even, occasionally, thousands of followers). We are also marketing a non-company (and thank G-D for that) Nostr.band shows daily / monthly users on a consistent uptick across 2-6 mos. It’s not ready for an explosion—yet. I think @Derek Ross has said this, too. What I *think* we are marketing is the fact that this just doesn’t suck like socials we are used to. And what I have learned from the past two years of covering social media platform news is people believe they are entitled to social media—for free—for self expression and connecting with other humans. Atm “sucks less” and “meet more humans” is a position. 🤙
I think the answer to the opening question will end up being resolved at the client level. And maybe Nostr becomes something we don’t lead with as much At least that’s what I’m starting to think…
The true nostr experience is client-agnostic though… which leads into the interoperability. As much as that interoperability is what turned on the light for me (and so many) it’s a tough sell for people still too inclined toward username/password/account/platform. So if we market a client > nostr, then it becomes experiential. Showing how chronological feeds and lack of algorithm change the experience, for example. We are making “social media” fun again. We make it social again here. And then here’s a slick client that does that in the palm of your hand.
