Oddbean

A few random notes: Angel is a terrible English word. It's a job title, not a typological name. It is basically "one who bears a message from The Most High." There are gods, little G gods. They were given dominion over parts of the earth. Nephilim (children of the gods who misapproprated worship to themselves and came to earth for the purpose of taking human wives) have been heavily associated with red hair and paler skin. All of the various pantheons of gods that pagans worship are either the Watchers (the group that came down I mentioned above) or others that were corrupted by the draw of power through the worship of humans later (see Psalm 82,IIRC). Humanity shares a very common past. The similarities of "myths" are shocking and point to this. I believe that the Biblical account is the true account of things.

this was pretty much my perspective also and it begs the question about the prophecies... for sure, the little bit of reading i've done of Revelation since starting to get this new understanding changes my reading a lot i probably should go poke at Mormon also, my uncle is one and i have read many interesting things about their system that hint at the idea that they are one of these branches of Christianity that have moved towards this view really i'm just trying to establish a short list of denominations that i should consider in my search for a gathering place in the future, not cults, but closer to this view than i will find in the bigger, more established churches

I kinda hate everything about Mormonism. They are not Christian, IMO. They are a cult. (To be fair, The Church was called a cult at its beginning, too, but the difference, IMO, is that Mormonism is based on a "further revelation" exactly like Islam, and both of those lead to bad things when followed, so, I do as proscribed and judge them by their fruit.)

yeah, i'm inclined to agree from my experience, they are probably pretty much Scientology-adjacent, in fact but the point is more about the fact that several of their "revelations" assert the material nature of the angelic host... and they have some interesting points about synthetic fibres and such also, which are all pretty much being shown to be toxic waste we should not be wearing but yes, pretty much a cult, i guess my point is more towards a more clear question of "which Christian churches are most friendly to the understanding of the angels being physical beings i have not intensively studied doctrine much outside of catholic and seventh day adventist (i was raised in the latter, and it also gets labeled cult as well, for much the same reasons as mormon, and JW and they also appear around the same time, at the end of the gold rush)

interesting, just reading about it one of the points in favor of such systems as i understand it is that it is permissible and mentioned the idea of praying to saints and angels, even opening up conversations with the fallen ones though obviously one is going to be highly skeptical about anything they say, and further, that the identity of those that answer may not be as intended probably in general it's best to stick to the one, and disincarnate God as regards to prayer, whoever actually answers, is for a separate exercise. it reminds me a lot, one of the most notable periods of my life in recent years related to adopting the constant prayer that I was engaging in, and because i was on the road and homeless and penniless i was alone a lot so it was easy to adopt there is some kind of phobia about speaking out loud to oneself, hypothetical listener or not, i'm interested to hear opinions about how to break through that without being in such extreme conditions as i found myself at the times i have practiced it a lot

hmm... if I ever to hear "another voice" that is not the one I know all my life, which tone or accent it would have? I tried imagine any, I couldn't... to begin with, to "imagine it" it already grants that is self made, that the voice is still there alone; if ever having to hear another voice there could be no way obliged necessity to be in this language probably, in this frequency, etc... The problematic as far as i know is there could not be a way to verify with flesh and bones about cases in other people where they claim they indeed can...

yeah, it's quite an interesting thing... the voice... you kinda have to persist with it and expect a response and eventually sometimes you get something that you don't expect, and that surprise is the signal that it has possible external origin anyone who sells you the idea that they have mastered it should be treated with suspicion, i think my personal theory on it is that you only listen to the voice of God first hand, which means you have to actually try to hear it the Bible also makes reference to this in places as the "still small voice" and this ties together with the instruction to pray out loud, and where this is advised also in some places it talks about the importance of privacy, and hinting at the idea that public praying as theatre is not a good thing, per se

knocked me off guard the use of praying as voice... of the voice 😅 then yes ideally i could sign the idea that praying not necessarily hast to be alike the mendincants did only... but there i think neither at concert halls with acrobatics if not is clearly labeled as circus

yeah, it can't really be stated without undue emphasis that you have to engade your lungs and vocal chords, the instructions you can find in the bible are quite clear, and you can probably find similar stuff in other places as well, it was just Phillipians 4:6-7 that i became aware of it

Interesting, I too was raised SDA. Don't meet too many people out and about with this background. As an adult it has been interesting to see the history of America and some of cultural forces that were in play when these "newer" Christian churches (SDA, Mormon, JW, etc) were founded. I think that's why many of them share similar forms and doctrines. There are definitely some good cultural parts of these churches that I really admire. But, some parts are just too 'out there' or elitist for me to deal with.

Yes there were definitely Angels that came down and created children (It is the children that are the Nephilim) that were human/angel hybrids. I believe that one of the big reasons for the global flood was because of this corruption of the human race, which was part of Satan's plan to so corrupt the human race that Jesus, the messiah couldn't come to redeem humanity. If you read Genesis 6 you'll see the cause: "5Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7The Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” I always assumed that the only reason for the destruction was that "every intent of the thoughts of his [mankind's] heart was only evil continually." I always missed the verses right before these: "1Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." This is the verses about the "sons of God" (angels) coming down to the "daughters of men" (human women) and having children with them. God had to wipe out the corrupted semi-humans because he would only be kinsmen redeemer of the true, God created humans. I also used to wonder why God had Israel wipe out every man, woman and child of certain groups in Canaan. I thought it was solely so they wouldn't be led astray, but the groups they were told to destroy were peoples that included giants, especially the rephaim. I now believe these people were also corrupted with fallen angel DNA and that is why there was no mercy on them. This aligns with the Scripture and seems to better align with God's character as revealed in the rest of Scripture. Jimmy Evans, who focuses on end times prophecy, has interviewed several guys with books on the nephilim (fallen angel/human hybrids). I actually bought two of them. One had too much repetition and I lost interest. "On the Trail of the Nephilim: Giant Skeletons & Ancient Megalithic Structures" by L.A. Marzulli was fascinating. It goes through old newspaper articles mentioning giant skeletons in North America, giant henges (circular megalithic mounds) in the NE US, and amazing megalithic structures and strange skulls in South America. I'm unsure if I agree on all of his conclusions (don't agree or disagree), but the evidence he shows is amazing. I couldn't put the book down.

the stack of evidence supporting the stories continues to get ever higher too to the point now where there are now known genetic clades (haplogroups) associated with these people and the "angels" (fallen and not) may well be from a variant of our kind known as "Iberomarussian" ie, north african/southwest european, and this is related to the appearance of the lactose switch and white/red/blonde mutations, and were the origin of humans becoming herders (and i strongly suspect the sheep was first, not the cow, for obvious reasons) i think that a lot of points in Apocalypse of Yajnavalkya go in the wrong direction, like the hypothesis the flood was caused by a meteor storm, and their clear bias towards "neutral" gnostic theology, but it gathers so many important points about so many things that after reading it (twice) i became convinced that Genesis is a history, if somewhat fragmentary, of real events, that the interacitons between Angels and the tribe of Adam were major parts of the events of our history and that as as is claimed in Enoch and repeated in Daniel and Revelation (and the rest) that there was a Jesus, that he is alive, and has mastered death, and is the leader of the Angelic Host that are due to return at the appointed time in order to harvest the good (first fruits) born of this earth i also won't disagree with the notion of the possibility of His ability to resurrect and bring judgement upon all humans who were born since the times when He ascended, and his entire Kingdom prior to that and the Father... i'm not sure how to put it exactly, my conception might seem heretical to some of the common doctrines of Christianity but i have had too many things whispered in my ears that made me likely to make this conception of the data i have seen and that there is indeed going to be a second coming, that it's coming in the next 30 years or so, and that the reason for it is that without this intervention all complex life on this planet will be forever lost at least, to itself, anyway (not to those with the divine power of the Kingdom of God)