#asknostr
does anyone know of which variants of Christianity have some emphasis on the angels?
there is a variant stream of Judaism called "Elohist" that contends that the main actors in the story are the host of angels, "elohim" literally means "the people of light" and is hard to not notice the correspondence to the irish stories of the "Tuatha de Danaan" or "Aes Dana" the people of the light
it's not so much that i think there is a conflict between the angels and God except in as far as the fallen angels, but more that the role of the angels, and the leader who gets called "Lord" in the whole of the bible - except when this refers to Jesus (which i think is interesting)
also, i remember years back some kind of criticism of the iconography of Jesus representing him as quite pale skinned, most of the famous catholic and protestant paintings depicting him put him as either pale white or at most tan, and if you follow the logic, that Jesus is descended from an angelic leader or "Lord" then there is a whole mess of questions i have about this because Genesis and other apocryphal books clearly imply or straight up state that angels were making babies with human women, implying that they are both: a) physical beings and b) genetically compatible with humans
it has only been a scant few thousand years since all these stories were written but you can cite multiple cases even in short time windows of the total destruction, or near total destruction, of all references to old stories in text that have later been challenged by the discovery of other texts that survived the book burning
so, yeah, back to the central topic, I know Mormons have a fairly strong notion of humans and angels being connected and some others but what are the most well known denominations that are adacent to or low key say that angels and man are related and the history is all about this?
i should just point out, because also i have other interests that have brought up these topics, like the newest Tomb Raider game heavily features apocalypse and the notion of "gods" in it and digging deaper into the south american stories about the subject, i mean, it's almost universally understood that the Aztecs had a prophecy about the return of the gods and that they were so easy to overrun and mostly exterminate because the spanish people were pale skinned and this put these people into a state of religious derived shock that made them easy prey
there are other stories about "bright people" in other mythologies, notably african and australian too
it just seems to me like there must be some threads and synthesis of this somewhere in Christendom because you don't have to be a life long dedicated scholar to bump into this stuff
A few random notes:
Angel is a terrible English word. It's a job title, not a typological name. It is basically "one who bears a message from The Most High."
There are gods, little G gods. They were given dominion over parts of the earth.
Nephilim (children of the gods who misapproprated worship to themselves and came to earth for the purpose of taking human wives) have been heavily associated with red hair and paler skin.
All of the various pantheons of gods that pagans worship are either the Watchers (the group that came down I mentioned above) or others that were corrupted by the draw of power through the worship of humans later (see Psalm 82,IIRC).
Humanity shares a very common past. The similarities of "myths" are shocking and point to this.
I believe that the Biblical account is the true account of things.
this was pretty much my perspective also
and it begs the question about the prophecies... for sure, the little bit of reading i've done of Revelation since starting to get this new understanding changes my reading a lot
i probably should go poke at Mormon also, my uncle is one and i have read many interesting things about their system that hint at the idea that they are one of these branches of Christianity that have moved towards this view
really i'm just trying to establish a short list of denominations that i should consider in my search for a gathering place in the future, not cults, but closer to this view than i will find in the bigger, more established churches
I kinda hate everything about Mormonism. They are not Christian, IMO. They are a cult. (To be fair, The Church was called a cult at its beginning, too, but the difference, IMO, is that Mormonism is based on a "further revelation" exactly like Islam, and both of those lead to bad things when followed, so, I do as proscribed and judge them by their fruit.)
Agreed. Accretions lead away from God.
yeah, i'm inclined to agree from my experience, they are probably pretty much Scientology-adjacent, in fact
but the point is more about the fact that several of their "revelations" assert the material nature of the angelic host... and they have some interesting points about synthetic fibres and such also, which are all pretty much being shown to be toxic waste we should not be wearing
but yes, pretty much a cult, i guess my point is more towards a more clear question of "which Christian churches are most friendly to the understanding of the angels being physical beings
i have not intensively studied doctrine much outside of catholic and seventh day adventist (i was raised in the latter, and it also gets labeled cult as well, for much the same reasons as mormon, and JW and they also appear around the same time, at the end of the gold rush)
those that are the most user friendly about angels I think are also the ones that get past over what angels are... I think secularism santería, for example...
interesting, just reading about it
one of the points in favor of such systems as i understand it is that it is permissible and mentioned the idea of praying to saints and angels, even opening up conversations with the fallen ones though obviously one is going to be highly skeptical about anything they say, and further, that the identity of those that answer may not be as intended
probably in general it's best to stick to the one, and disincarnate God as regards to prayer, whoever actually answers, is for a separate exercise.
it reminds me a lot, one of the most notable periods of my life in recent years related to adopting the constant prayer that I was engaging in, and because i was on the road and homeless and penniless i was alone a lot so it was easy to adopt
there is some kind of phobia about speaking out loud to oneself, hypothetical listener or not, i'm interested to hear opinions about how to break through that without being in such extreme conditions as i found myself at the times i have practiced it a lot
hmm... if I ever to hear "another voice" that is not the one I know all my life, which tone or accent it would have? I tried imagine any, I couldn't... to begin with, to "imagine it" it already grants that is self made, that the voice is still there alone; if ever having to hear another voice there could be no way obliged necessity to be in this language probably, in this frequency, etc...
The problematic as far as i know is there could not be a way to verify with flesh and bones about cases in other people where they claim they indeed can...
yeah, it's quite an interesting thing... the voice...
you kinda have to persist with it and expect a response and eventually sometimes you get something that you don't expect, and that surprise is the signal that it has possible external origin
anyone who sells you the idea that they have mastered it should be treated with suspicion, i think my personal theory on it is that you only listen to the voice of God first hand, which means you have to actually try to hear it
the Bible also makes reference to this in places as the "still small voice" and this ties together with the instruction to pray out loud, and where this is advised also in some places it talks about the importance of privacy, and hinting at the idea that public praying as theatre is not a good thing, per se
knocked me off guard the use of praying as voice... of the voice 😅 then yes ideally i could sign the idea that praying not necessarily hast to be alike the mendincants did only... but there i think neither at concert halls with acrobatics if not is clearly labeled as circus
yeah, it can't really be stated without undue emphasis that you have to engade your lungs and vocal chords, the instructions you can find in the bible are quite clear, and you can probably find similar stuff in other places as well, it was just Phillipians 4:6-7 that i became aware of it
too much nuance to note but welcome @ my campfire .1 thing, i never like sharing thru megaphones my really personal stuff
Interesting, I too was raised SDA. Don't meet too many people out and about with this background.
As an adult it has been interesting to see the history of America and some of cultural forces that were in play when these "newer" Christian churches (SDA, Mormon, JW, etc) were founded. I think that's why many of them share similar forms and doctrines.
There are definitely some good cultural parts of these churches that I really admire. But, some parts are just too 'out there' or elitist for me to deal with.
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